"Shit happens."

I don't know how to say this, but skiing has gotten really scary. With all that technology has delivered to this revolution, skiing has become insanely easy. I can rip a forest at GS speeds and arcs without even needing to open my mouth to breathe. It's like sitting on the couch it's so damn easy. It used to be different. Harder to get after.

10 years ago I stopped competing in BM events. I got hurt, many times, and inherited the fear of falling. I don't fear that anymore. I fear dying. I swear to god I am hauling ass in terrain that used to require billy-goat punches and a reality check. I just drift by on my fatties like it's Tuesday night at Bub's.

Go-Pros enter our world. Suddenly all my bros are pimping POV footage like it's still Tuesday. And with that comes hoards of- Holy shit, he's dead. Every year for the last 10 years has delivered to me a story of 1, 2 or 3 people that I actually know dying doing what I do on Tuesday, for fun.

Everyone is like - Go for it! Live your life! Get stoked!

Seriously? 50 years ago there were a few guys hanging it out there. Now- EVERYONE is getting after it because it's so fucking easy. Then nature happens, avalanches hit and the ski world is like- Oh, yeah, be careful too.

I never knew before I quit competing how dangerous my lifestyle was. When I used to compete there were no digital cameras. No YouTube. People weren't spreading the word like they can now. It was different. People that died were simply statistics. Now they're my friends because I hear their stories.

This is the same shit it has ever been. But now we keep in touch, connect, and hear about people dying doing what we do every day. The only thing that changed is that now we hear about it. And it's fucking scary. Skiing is way more real than it ever has been.

Shit Happens. Yeah- now we hear about it, too.

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Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey

Sure it does, if you are skiing in avalanche terrain there is always a chance that the slope will slide and kill you, just like if you are ice climbing there is always a risk the ice will fall off the cliff and kill you. The trick is minimizing objective risk, its impossible to eliminate it though.

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Alex Lowe dying in an avy he didn't set off from a vertical mile above = Objective

Someone with a bunch of avy training ignoring a bunch of red flags on a high danger day and getting caught = ????? Said person must belive they can control the
risks with their skill and training. (<- not directed at the Steven's accident, I don't know anything about it.) To me this
is like when the newspaper says 'The avalanche struck without warning...'

just want to say i ski in fernie and me and my crew prob tour the sidecountry there as much as anyone. we usually open the skin tracks after every storm and push for deep lines in the trees. we are in a big storm cycle right now and hill is on lockdown for avi danger. yesterday we went to a spot we ski all the time . on the skin track there was a natural release in a steep pad about 60 ft wide and 12 to 16 inches deep. there were many red flags and i was uncomfortable. we went up just a little to poke around my friend jumped on a small roller and i hears a settlement around us. oh yeah we have that layer of surface hoar that is now 60 cms down and surface facets. i pulled the plug told the boys "go on without me but im not feeling it". 2 guys agreed with me but i think my other friend wanted to push on and tickle some slabs. i felt good about my decision. but he is already talking about going ob and i feel our danger is getting worse not better. he has taken a week long level 1 in canada and been in 2 slides but seems to want to push it even more instead of taking a conservative outlook. just some thoughts but some ski partners can be tough to deal with...

smug twit rambling regarding decision making. Deep Breathing, The Avalanche Review, 28(2) [pdf]

http://www.americanavalancheassociat...28_2_LoRes.pdf

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just want to say i ski in fernie and me and my crew prob tour the sidecountry there as much as anyone. we usually open the skin tracks after every storm and push for deep lines in the trees. we are in a big storm cycle right now and hill is on lockdown for avi danger. yesterday we went to a spot we ski all the time . on the skin track there was a natural release in a steep pad about 60 ft wide and 12 to 16 inches deep. there were many red flags and i was uncomfortable. we went up just a little to poke around my friend jumped on a small roller and i hears a settlement around us. oh yeah we have that layer of surface hoar that is now 60 cms down and surface facets. i pulled the plug told the boys "go on without me but im not feeling it". 2 guys agreed with me but i think my other friend wanted to push on and tickle some slabs. i felt good about my decision. but he is already talking about going ob and i feel our danger is getting worse not better. he has taken a week long level 1 in canada and been in 2 slides but seems to want to push it even more instead of taking a conservative outlook. just some thoughts but some ski partners can be tough to deal with...

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Tell him to smarten the fuck up and never be the odd man out...always have some one that you trust who will pull the plug with you when you start to question what you're getting in to otherwise it's possible you'll be left on your own or stuck failing forwards. Operations level courses don't mean a thing when you don't apply it, it's just a piece of paper.

Time2climb is "spot-on" as my British friends say. An Avie education without the discipline to apply the knowledge is worthless.

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Originally Posted by AdironRider

Call it what you want, but getting caught in a slide on a high avi danger forecast day is retarded. Stay home or ski in bounds.

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i'm really tired of hearing this. just because YOU can't travel safely on a high danger day doesn't mean others can't. i recall a statistic stating that something like half of avalanche deaths occur in MODERATE DANGER!!

and NOBODY has EVER died inbounds of an avalanche on a high danger day...ever...

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Originally Posted by AfroMullet

i'm really tired of hearing this. just because YOU can't travel safely on a high danger day doesn't mean others can't. i recall a statistic stating that something like half of avalanche deaths occur in MODERATE DANGER!!

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81% of avalanche fatalities occur in moderate or considerable danger.

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Originally Posted by AfroMullet

i'm really tired of hearing this. just because YOU can't travel safely on a high danger day doesn't mean others can't. i recall a statistic stating that something like half of avalanche deaths occur in MODERATE DANGER!!

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And there is the rub. Sure, you can TRAVEL safely on a high danger day, I now folks that do just for sport and to see things come down. You can't SKI whatever you want, maybe nothing, on a high danger day. Problem is that many do, and die.

I just read through this thread; very somber and thought provoking. I didn't know those who died in the Stevens Pass slide but know at least one person who was there and know a number of people who knew one or more of the victim's. These were very knowledgeable, experienced people who got caught in a very unfortunate situation. My initial response wasn't that they were stupid or anything of the sort. Rather, it was anger over their having lost their lives. That is what remains and the only thought, other than natural grief and condolences.

Why not be mad because they may have done something 'stupid'? Because there is realization that risk is part of what we do and, frankly, part of WHY we do it. Eric Pehota said it well in "Steep". It's the ultimate paradox; the closer we get to the edge of death, the more alive we are. Sometimes that edge can be vividly defined, other times the definition of the edge is more blurred. At times, we get too close to the edge and, unfortunately, at times, people go over. But what are the alternatives; sit home and watch TV on the couch, dying from a heart attack? I guess that's fine for some but for others, that's not life but is merely existence. Most who are here likely view it as the latter.

Snow science isn't exact, as most sciences aren't. It's very good and improves continuously through experience and investigation but will never be perfect. There are myriad variables on any particular slope on any particular day during any particular cycle during any particular season. There are two types of choice makers. Those who really have little or no knowledge of what they're getting into but go anyway. That's probably just a stupid decision. Then there are those who, like the Stevens Pass group, know a lot but are simply caught in a bad situation. The more a person knows, the more apt they are to potentially push toward the edge. Why is that? Probably because knowing and becoming more experienced is a conscious choice made due to the desire to get closer to the edge, more alive.

In any decision making exercise, it's always best to get as many facts known as possible in order to mitigate the potential to make the wrong decision. Generally though, there is no collection of facts that is 100% risk free in a decision. Perhaps you can get to 95% risk free but rarely ever 100% risk free. In snow science, it's hard to believe that decisions can get much more risk free, other than to just decide you're never going to ski again. But then our existence becomes existence, not life.

This is a difficult subject. "Shit happens" is probably as good an explanation as any as to why some of the very most experienced and knowledgeable people die in the back country. Saying they were 'stupid morons' is second-guessing and essentially equivalent to deciding to never ski again, at least outside the boundaries. If not for the human instinct to explore our limits, take risks with our lives to further our sense of life, curiosity about what's past the edge of the ocean's horizon, where would we, as a species, be? No Magellan, no Neal Armstrong, no Chuck Yeager, no human advancement? As humans, this is part of our DNA. I don't see how we escape it and I don't see an end to people dying doing what we do in skiing or any other risk oriented activities. Becoming more knowledgeable and more experienced, while exercising an educated level of caution helps but doesn't completely eliminate the exposure. Eric was right; it truly is the ultimate paradox.