Tools of the Trade--avy gear--what do you carry?

good thread, it looks like it's time to go to REI.

I carry:

Voile shovel - I was digging in some relatively fresh debris about two months ago to see what it was like, and I bent the fucking shovel blade. Crazy. I'm going to order another shovel blade and keep the bent one as a backup in my pack.

Komperdell probe

G3 snowsaw

Tracker

Reustchblock cord

inclinometer

compass

extra layer of clothing, hat, gloves, socks, goggles

lighter, candles

cell phone (off) - by the way, a lot of people have been saying this without giving an explanation. Given the number of people who carry cell phones everywhere these days, I think it's pretty important to mention that CELL PHONES MESS WITH YOUR TRANSCEIVER. They interfere with the frequency put out by beacons, and can cause the receiving transceiver to malfunction.

I knew some people like you all, had all the gear; magnifying glass, snow saw, inclinmeter, probes, etc... but they still got killed anyway. Americans think that gear will make them safe, sorry but that aint reality. We learned how to read the snow pack, gather intimate knowledge of slopes in the area, and managed to survive before anyone heard of all the gear everyone carries these days.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kailas

I knew some people like you all, had all the gear; magnifying glass, snow saw, inclinmeter, probes, etc... but they still got killed anyway. Americans think that gear will make them safe, sorry but that aint reality. We learned how to read the snow pack, gather intimate knowledge of slopes in the area, and managed to survive before anyone heard of all the gear everyone carries these days.

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WTF?
I guess I can pull all that useless gear out of my pack and go old school.
Gear is gear the knowledge to use the gear in a proper way to asess the snowpack conditions is the key.
So WTF is your first aid kit? A box of bandaids?
Once the shit hits the fan it's to late to go back and learn things or grab the gear you need. I suppose tree branches make an adequate probe huh?
Your probably one of those shovel and probe go light and hope the shit don't ever hit the fan dudes.
Get a clue Dude
SFB (Jamoke)

No ones talking about getting the gear into the trash bin, talking about all the noobs to the backcountry having the belief that gear technology is going to somehow make everything safer. And no I'm not a fuckwad, you 'just moved to Utah and look how cool I am' jamoke! :eek:

Thank you KailAss for cunting up a perfectly good thread.
Rather then contributing, you prefer cunting.
That makes you a fuckwad, or at least a fucktard.

Yes, we can all get caught in an avy no matter how much gear we use or carry. Duh.

This was a very positive thread before you fucked it up.
this thread might actually save the life of someone in the BC.

If you want to rant and rave about avy education, training, and reading terrain and snowpack, start another thread to edumacate us all.

If you care to contribute, why not post what is in YOUR pack. Otherwise, STFU.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kailas

I knew some people like you all, had all the gear; magnifying glass, snow saw, inclinmeter, probes, etc... but they still got killed anyway. Americans think that gear will make them safe, sorry but that aint reality. We learned how to read the snow pack, gather intimate knowledge of slopes in the area, and managed to survive before anyone heard of all the gear everyone carries these days.

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I knew some people like you, had all the intimate knowledge of slopes in the area, could read the snowpack, and thought they were the shit. They got killed anyway. Your ego is gonna get you hurt, shithead. Coloraaadans think that they know more than everyone else, sorry but that ain't reality.

Your right, sometimes your luck runs out. But that's not the point. The point is all you noobs think that your technology will save the day, I'm saying you got to know a lot more than that. And what's with the downer toward Colorado, you aint from Utah Flydog. I bet your from the midwest, still got that chip on your shoulder. :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kailas

Your right, sometimes your luck runs out. But that's not the point. The point is all you noobs think that your technology will save the day, I'm saying you got to know a lot more than that. And what's with the downer toward Colorado, you aint from Utah Flydog. I bet your from the midwest, still got that chip on your shoulder. :p

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Good message + proper attitude = good post

Your batting .500. No shit that you need both the proper equipment plus the proper knowledge to migigage risk in the backcountry. Yes, many people rely too much on the latter and not enough on the former. Be carefull who you start calling out. Tone it down a bit JONGface and we can have an informative discussion. How about what's in your pack?

:wink: :wink: Probe, shovel, beacon, hot tea, but it depends. Right now there's nothing in my pack, except crampons, cloths and food. Don't need too much this time of year, just get out by noon or so. I should qualify myself, my first 'backcountry experience' was in 1972 on Thompson pass, see my grandparents lived in Valdez for 33yrs, so I've been there several times. I've stood very close to a few slides, close enough where I thought an F-16 was flying overhead, when infact the hill was avalanching. Sorry... no jong here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kailas

Your right, sometimes your luck runs out. But that's not the point. The point is all you noobs think that your technology will save the day, I'm saying you got to know a lot more than that.

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If this is the message you were trying to get across, cool, its right.
If you would have posted the contents of your pack and a message like this at the end. I would not have deemed you a Fwad.
Your original post, on its own, sure seemed like a cunting of APD original KFA
informative thread.
You call yourself an "expert" yet your original post was by far the lamest in the thread.
It will be a decade in the land of Zion for this Jamoke in Oct. and after 6 seasons in the BC I would consider myself an advanced noob and no where near an expert.
I have a tendency to haul way to much gear in my pack, and am trying to minimalize.
I use my snow safety gear to protect me and my touring partners.
For me I enjoy the snow study aspect of BC skiing, not just, Will this slope slide? But where will it fail and is that suspect layer going to be present on slopes of similar aspects and why or why not.
Once again Knowledge Is The Key.
Gear is equipment that some of us use to build our knowledge and to make sure that our partners and us return safely from the activities we cherish.
Thanks for your input and clarifeing your message.
Your 1st aid experience and contents of your kit would be interesting to me.
Fwad edited no real desire to flame on the web unless your a Euro kook or truly a fuckwad and its meritted.
I'm down for stoke, knowledge, and humor

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kailas

:wink: :wink: Probe, shovel, beacon, hot tea, but it depends. Right now there's nothing in my pack, except crampons, cloths and food. Don't need too much this time of year, just get out by noon or so. I should qualify myself, my first 'backcountry experience' was in 1972 on Thompson pass, see my grandparents lived in Valdez for 33yrs, so I've been there several times. I've stood very close to a few slides, close enough where I thought an F-16 was flying overhead, when infact the hill was avalanching. Sorry... no jong here.

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Welcome Kailas - sounds like you have a wealth of experience to share with us all. The exchange of avie related info and knowledge is why APD and others asked Owens to add this forum to the board. There's a huge variety of people ranging from those who have never set foot in the BC to those like yourself who've spent decades out there.

Let me tell you something, not too long ago, hardly anyone had even heard of a beacon. They were made in Europe and not imported into the U.S. at the beggining of their manufacturing life, I first saw one while on a trip to Europe. What's my point, we were forced to learn the hard way using caution, developing experience, and luck because none of that gear was around for purchase. :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kailas

What's my point, we were forced to learn the hard way using caution, developing experience, and luck because none of that gear was around for purchase. :p

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And more people died. So what is your point?

let me spell it out for you, don't rely on your shiny new equipment to keep
you safe, develop your BC knowledge :cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kailas

let me spell it out for you, don't rely on your shiny new equipment to keep
you safe, develop your BC knowledge :cool:

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After reading the whole thread all I can say is wow. The point you are trying to make is important, but not in this thread. No one in this thread said anything about their gear making it ok for them to travel in the BC without avie knowledge or in dangerous conditions. EVERYONE here knows that gear is just that, gear, and that it is no replacement for knowledge of the terrain, snow pack, and weather conditions existing while travelling in the BC, so why are you lecturing? I just don't see what point you are making by assuming everyone in the thread has NO idea what kind of dangers exist in the BC.

anyway, just emptied my pack out and got to see really how much crap was really in it. most of this stuff is in there whenever i go out, but some is added depending on the tour length and conditions.

DaKine Poacher Pack
BCA Tracker
G3 300cm Probe
BD Tele Lynx Shovel
Med Kit
Life Link Snow Saw
Small Maglite
Duct Tape - some on maglite and some on ski pole
Topo Map of area
Lighter, Matches, and Fire starter goo
2 Glow sticks
Cell Phone (off)
Compass
8x Magnifier and Snow pit card
Slopemeter
Space Blanket
Extra Contacts + solution
Extra layers - usually compressed down jacket
Extra Batteries - just in case + for maglite
Extra Flexon Boot Buckles - Love the boots, hate the buckles, and sometime they need to be replaces while skiing
Sunscreen + sunglasses
Carmex
Bandana
2 extra power bars, 2 extra cliff goo crap
Normal Food and Water
Hand Warmers
DaKine Leatherman tool
Toe Nail Clippers - ingrown toenails suck
head lamp

Need to add ice axe or ice axe attachment for ski poles and cornice/Rutschblock rope.

The handle on BD D9shovel broke off while shoveling wet snow thursday. Not expected, Black Diamond gear has always been reliable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jtoke

The handle on BD D9shovel broke off while shoveling wet snow thursday. Not expected, Black Diamond gear has always been reliable.

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send it to warranty or take the whole shovel back to where you bought it from. they have the best warranty department that i have dealt with.

was it the plastic D-ring that broke? that piece shouldn't have much stress on it when you are shoveling.

I was just wondering what kind of beacons everyone has and stumbled on this thread. Nice touch for starting this one up.

What I carry

Voile Metal shovel --> I've seen plastic break in the field
Voile 240cm probe
Folding wood saw that doubles as a snow saw
SOS F1-ND old black beacon--> thinking of upgrading but not sure to what.
Compass/Map
Whistle on my shoulder strap
synthetic vest
Bivy sack if it's something quite far from town, roads.

First Aid kit
2 cravates
1 pack of steri-strips
couple bandaids
some mole skin
1 roll of gauze
1 steril pad
1 power bar
1 space blanket
1 pack of waterproof matches
1 candle
1 little baggy full of dryer lint in case I need to start a fire

After reading some other posts though I've picked up some good ideas. Thanks for the info.

Good thread! Here's what I generally bring ski touring:
Partner(s)
My avalanche dog
Ortovox F1 transceiver, I'm considering the new Ortovox Sensor
VHF 2-way programmable radio
Arc'Teryx Bora 40 containing:
Ortovox 320 probe or G3 220 cmprobe depending on snowpack
Voile Telepro shovel D Handle
Montanyl Skins
First Aid Kit & doggie first aid stuff
Sam Splint
RB cord
Snow Profile Kit with Lifelink Saw
Down Jacket in stuff sack ( depending on the weather)
extra gloves and hat
food & water (for man & beast)
Silverfoot collapsible dog bowl
emergency blanket
piece of bubble wrap to sit on
paraffin wax candle to stop the glop on skins ( springtime) and other emergency uses
waterproof matches & Bic lighter
Petzl LED headlamp
Leatherman tool

good thread which I have learned from.

Won't add too much to the list except for what I have not read:

Repair kit includes extra skin tips, hardware, epoxy, screwdriver, hanger or bailing wire (for tele skiers) a sewing kit, extra binding (tele skier) and an extra heel clip.

Also, extra clothing, batteries for radios, beacons, and headlamps just in case.

Electrolyte mix. moleskin, antacid, maps if i have, compass, sunglasses with extra lenses

I see not many (none?) include Voile straps. These are very handy for many situations. (disregard the Snake Skins included with the hyperlink!!)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oh snow

I see not many (none?) include Voile straps. These are very handy for many situations. (disregard the Snake Skins included with the hyperlink!!)

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Utah Avalanche Center straps ;)

CMH straps like the Volkls that go with them

Just food for thought...

What do we carry all this stuff for? For that race against time that we hope will never happen, where every second counts, where adrenaline and panic will be pumping through your veins and you want to do as little "thinking" as possible. Hopefully training will make protocol automatic to the greatest extent possible, familar partners and predetermined rolls expedite rescue execution, and communication is well practiced. Quite simply, variables are the enemy.

Because of this, I choose to carry my shovel assembled but compacted (handle not extended) and probe on sidestrap of my bag, ready to be pulled in a second. Now I know this only gives me maybe 20 seconds on those of who carry shovels disassembled and probes in the handles, assuming they're not frozen and assemble seamlessly. But after a rescue, I'd hate to wonder if 20 seconds would have made the difference. If you're going to carry it, why not be ready as possible to use it? What's the cost? Yes, I might bang my helmet on the end of the shovel if I crash hard enough. But that's really about it.

Not hatin', just food for thought.

Really glad i checked out this thread. APD you had some of the most awesome bc pics and tr's last winter.
BD shovel metal
probe
pieps
alpine poles
handle fold pruning saw 11"
mini med kit & those little adhesive patches for blister prevention
matches lighter fire goo
duck tape
leather man
h20
eats
socks
da kine