Four Wheel Camper

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Originally Posted by Bobcat Sig

My rig: '12 F-150 EcoBoost SuperCrew w/5/5' bed. I'll need airbags, me thinks.

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Sounds like a nice truck. Do some research re a Hawk on a 5.5' bed crew cab. Hawk should fit fine with the tailgate down but you really want to get the COG as forward of the rear axle as possible. Lots of discussion re the subject on WTW, e.g., Grandby on 6.5' bed with tailgate down fits but consensus that it does not handle great. Consider FWC configurations that are lighter in the back end, e.g., side dinette or rollover vs. front dinette. If you go rollover, consider ATC and save some $$. Also, you might want to sign up on WTW and query the old timers.

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Originally Posted by Big Steve

Anyway, FWC and ATC (knockoff of old FWC design) vs. Northstar, Sun Valley, Palamino, etc. is apples vs. oranges. FWC/ATC are lighter and built to hold up to rugged use, e.g., off-road and rugged roads, so not necessary for most people. And this is a FWC thread, fer chrissake.

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Bobcat asked about Northstar, so I'm answering. Settle down.

FWC has its place in the market, certainly. Especially if you're looking for more bare-bones/ spartan camper, or want to use it on a 1/2-ton or smaller pickup, it's probably your best choice for a camper. Bobcat - consider your truck's payload when shopping, and factor in another 300-500 pounds of additional weight for wet weight + all the crap you'll inevitably load onboard.

My comments on the bed and the overall feel of the size inside the FWC were intended to give Bobcat some shopping comparison info. Lots of people love the FWCs, but they just weren't for me. For example, the FWC cabover bed uses quite thin padding for its mattress pieces, and as I noted, you can't leave the bed fully made up. The Northstar uses a standard inner spring queen mattress, and I can leave sheets and comforter up there (but not pillows) and drop the roof. I also didn't really like the FWC roof lift design (manually pick it up with your back), vs. the internal crank-up design that other pop-up campers use. YMMV.

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Originally Posted by Bobcat Sig

In the meantime, what's the prevailing thought on Palomino Broncos?

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Avoid. If there is any camper that I would recommend *not* purchasing, it's that one. Very cheap construction.

Also, on the Bronco (at least on the ones I've seen), and on other older pop-up campers that extend the door into the roof portion (vs. an entirely soft expanding section, with a fixed - but shorter - door) -- the structure is supposedly a lot weaker as a result of the framing not enclosing the lower door.

This is difficult to describe in words, but look at some pictures of the full-height door campers, and think about the structural design of it all.

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Originally Posted by Big Steve

Sounds like a nice truck. Do some research re a Hawk on a 5.5' bed crew cab. Hawk should fit fine with the tailgate down but you really want to get the COG as forward of the rear axle as possible. Lots of discussion re the subject on WTW, e.g., Grandby on 6.5' bed with tailgate down fits but consensus that it does not handle great. Consider FWC configurations that are lighter in the back end, e.g., side dinette or rollover vs. front dinette. If you go rollover, consider ATC and save some $$. Also, you might want to sign up on WTW and query the old timers.

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Thank you. I debated for quite a while on the 5.5 vs. 6.5 and opted for better turning radius as my needs aren't big at the moment for a camper.
WTW; on it.

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Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

Bobcat asked about Northstar, so I'm answering. Settle down.

FWC has its place in the market, certainly. Especially if you're looking for more bare-bones/ spartan camper, or want to use it on a 1/2-ton or smaller pickup, it's probably your best choice for a camper. Bobcat - consider your truck's payload when shopping, and factor in another 300-500 pounds of additional weight for wet weight + all the crap you'll inevitably load onboard.

My comments on the bed and the overall feel of the size inside the FWC were intended to give Bobcat some shopping comparison info. Lots of people love the FWCs, but they just weren't for me. For example, the FWC cabover bed uses quite thin padding for its mattress pieces, and as I noted, you can't leave the bed fully made up. The Northstar uses a standard inner spring queen mattress, and I can leave sheets and comforter up there (but not pillows) and drop the roof. I also didn't really like the FWC roof lift design (manually pick it up with your back), vs. the internal crank-up design that other pop-up campers use. YMMV.



Avoid. If there is any camper that I would recommend *not* purchasing, it's that one. Very cheap construction.

Also, on the Bronco (at least on the ones I've seen), and on other older pop-up campers that extend the door into the roof portion (vs. an entirely soft expanding section, with a fixed - but shorter - door) -- the structure is supposedly a lot weaker as a result of the framing not enclosing the lower door.

This is difficult to describe in words, but look at some pictures of the full-height door campers, and think about the structural design of it all.

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Duly noted on the Palominos. The Northstar does seem nice, but it's rather close to my payload wet, which may make it a no-go. And the one I'm looking at has a lot of its tanks towards the rear of the box, putting most of the weight behind the rear axle. Not ideal. I will still keep them in mind, however. They do look like nice units.

Current FWC models have the water tank as far forward as possible.

A few comments re El C's post:

Again, you can leave the bed fully made up simply by leaving the bed extended when you lower the top. If even you slide the bed (why the fuck not?): compare 20 seconds of effort vs. 300 lbs. of extra weight.

FWC bed now has much better foam, quite comfy but no springs. FWC/ATC prioritize function and light weight.

FWC offers external struts that greatly assist raising and lowering. Even without the struts (recommended), if you have a problem popping or lowering FWC lift panels you shouldn't be skiing.

FWC currently offers campers that are nowhere near "bare-boned/spartan." Indeed, some of the new designs are quite posh. See prior comments re BC's apparent confusion of current FWC models with models >2-3 years ago. FWC interiors have undergone a huge transformation in the past 2-3 years, some of which results from incorporating designs and components from sailboats. ATC makes c. 2000 bare-boned FWC knockoffs if that's what you want. Both FWC and ATC make "shell" models that cost less (half as much as fully loaded models) and can be DIY modified.

If I were to buy new today, it would be from:

http://www.phoenixpopup.com/

Coming from a loyal and happy Grandby owner.

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Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark

If I were to buy new today, it would be from:

http://www.phoenixpopup.com/

Coming from a loyal and happy Grandby owner.

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A friend of a friend had one built for his 6.5' F-150 recently. And now he's selling it. Had it fit in my truck, I'd have it already ... He was selling it for pennies on the dollar.

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Originally Posted by Big Steve

Sounds like a nice truck. Do some research re a Hawk on a 5.5' bed crew cab. Hawk should fit fine with the tailgate down but you really want to get the COG as forward of the rear axle as possible. Lots of discussion re the subject on WTW, e.g., Grandby on 6.5' bed with tailgate down fits but consensus that it does not handle great. Consider FWC configurations that are lighter in the back end, e.g., side dinette or rollover vs. front dinette. If you go rollover, consider ATC and save some $$. Also, you might want to sign up on WTW and query the old timers.

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I run a Grandby on my Tundra with airbags and E rated tires. Handles fine. Really don't notice a much difference between camper on and camper off but maybe that is because I drive like the old fart that I am. I took the tailgate off and used 4 pressure treated 2x4's underneath it to support the extra length since I also had to get some extra clearance on the sides anyways.

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Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark

If I were to buy new today, it would be from:

http://www.phoenixpopup.com/

Coming from a loyal and happy Grandby owner.

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Based on Phoenix's work shown here, I'd be cautious.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/foru...-Pop-Up-Camper

Cross posted on RV thread

Attachment 202726

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Originally Posted by DIYSteve

Cross posted on RV thread

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nice, we are thinking about that too. RV thread on TGR?

Seems like as good a thread as any to bump...

I'm camper-curious, but clueless. I pretty much wasted 8hrs of my employers time today researching this and unfortunately can't do that all the time. Know of Wander the West and Expedition Portal, could easily spend weeks of my life learning there but easier to ask dumb questions here.

My rig is an 04 Tundra AC. The front is lifted 3" with heavier springs, rear is lifted 1.5" with a Wheelers Add-a-Leaf, running 33" Duratracs. Currently has a custom rear bumper and planning to add sliders and a custom front bumper. I've been running a mid-rise fiberglass shell with a fairly elaborate bed platform for some time. So given the off-road oriented build and the smaller truck to begin with, I definitely know that I need to look at a pretty lightweight pop-up style camper and it seems like an aluminum frame would be highly advisable, both for weight and durability.

The main reason I'm considering replacing the shell with a camper is to make it more versatile in the winter. I'm pretty OK with crashing in the truck with a warm sleeping bag in the middle of winter but the fiancee and the dogs are not. We need something heated to make it feasible to sleep in the mountains in the winter. I'm at the point where I just can't handle waking up at 4am and not getting home until 9pm with weekend ski traffic anymore and having a warm and mobile place to sleep would help a lot. Having more space in the summer would be nice too but it's not as crucial.

So my initial questions are:

1) the three main brands that have come up so far are FWC, All Terrain, and Phoenix. Are there others that build aluminum framed, lightweight campers for smaller trucks that I should be looking at?

2) is it really realistic to use a pop-up regularly in the winter? We're in Colorado, so thankfully it's fairly dry, which will help with the condensation issue. With the addition of the thermal kits/cold weather kits that these manufacturers offer, how warm can we realistically expect to be able to keep the interior on a 0 degree night?

3) what options do you find crucial, and what do you find not that important? Since I've never had a camper, I don't know for sure what I'd want and what I wouldn't, though I can guess. A cooktop seems useful, a sink not so much?

4) how are you storing skis? How are you carrying mountain bikes?

5) anyone selling anything that might fit the bill? ;)

As for budget, I'd likely have to finance regardless of new or used unless I bought some old piece of shit that needs a ton of work. I have moderate fabrication skillz but I also have enough projects right now (remodeling my entire house myself) so I don't really have time to rebuild a camper too. So to some degree the budget is flexible to get the right thing. This would be a long term investment. If I went new, FWC looks great but goddamn they are expensive. ATC are like $2k cheaper right off the bat, but I don't know if there's a reason for that. No clue what Phoenix runs since they don't list pricing.

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...n-parking-lots

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

Seems like as good a thread as any to bump...

I'm camper-curious, but clueless. I pretty much wasted 8hrs of my employers time today researching this and unfortunately can't do that all the time. Know of Wander the West and Expedition Portal, could easily spend weeks of my life learning there but easier to ask dumb questions here.

My rig is an 04 Tundra AC. The front is lifted 3" with heavier springs, rear is lifted 1.5" with a Wheelers Add-a-Leaf, running 33" Duratracs. Currently has a custom rear bumper and planning to add sliders and a custom front bumper. I've been running a mid-rise fiberglass shell with a fairly elaborate bed platform for some time. So given the off-road oriented build and the smaller truck to begin with, I definitely know that I need to look at a pretty lightweight pop-up style camper and it seems like an aluminum frame would be highly advisable, both for weight and durability.

The main reason I'm considering replacing the shell with a camper is to make it more versatile in the winter. I'm pretty OK with crashing in the truck with a warm sleeping bag in the middle of winter but the fiancee and the dogs are not. We need something heated to make it feasible to sleep in the mountains in the winter. I'm at the point where I just can't handle waking up at 4am and not getting home until 9pm with weekend ski traffic anymore and having a warm and mobile place to sleep would help a lot. Having more space in the summer would be nice too but it's not as crucial.

So my initial questions are:

1) the three main brands that have come up so far are FWC, All Terrain, and Phoenix. Are there others that build aluminum framed, lightweight campers for smaller trucks that I should be looking at?

2) is it really realistic to use a pop-up regularly in the winter? We're in Colorado, so thankfully it's fairly dry, which will help with the condensation issue. With the addition of the thermal kits/cold weather kits that these manufacturers offer, how warm can we realistically expect to be able to keep the interior on a 0 degree night?

3) what options do you find crucial, and what do you find not that important? Since I've never had a camper, I don't know for sure what I'd want and what I wouldn't, though I can guess. A cooktop seems useful, a sink not so much?

4) how are you storing skis? How are you carrying mountain bikes?

5) anyone selling anything that might fit the bill? ;)

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Adrenalated, I'm in the same boat as you, welcome to my wormhole! ;) . You know my wife, she ain't sleeping in the back of the truck anymore. Frustrating I know, but a great excuse to buy a new camper! We've been debating this for years now, with no action. Here's some suggestions though. I've always wanted a FWC shell with just a few added options. The Hawk will fit best, but a Fleet might be better for your situation to save some weight and increase outside ski storage. A FWC Fleet might leave enough room for a side ski storage option or a box underneath the camper, where you'll need to lift it anyway (see video below).

A few friends who have campers on their trucks have all added airbags to the suspension and seem to think that it works well. Easy to air them down when you get off the highway and to the trailhead. Cheapest ones are pumped up with a bike pump but you can go full auto.

As far as winter camping, you'll get different opinions from everyone. Best I can tell is that there are insulated panels that you can buy or make yourself and some people say that it is totally viable and other say they don't work well enough. Condensation might still be a factor in CO, mostly because it is more dependent on your heat source, however things do dry out faster here obviously. I look at it as great for a few nights, but for longer trips in the dead of winter you'll want something more.

Here's a good place to look for used ones. Still not cheap, but sometimes cheap-er
https://www.facebook.com/UsedFourWheelCampers/

Adding a Fleet to a full sized truck: MODS! Yay! : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpK4gJbQcKU

We've also been considering a tow behind RPod or Winnebago because well, comfort, more amenities for the price like bathroom/shower, and being able to unhook when not in use.

Here is our rig. Have many trips thus far in places the vans struggle. It’s fun knowing a toy like this will be apart of our lives for years to come. I hunted a while for the camper and the ranch truck is not ideal but it’s an experiment and down the road will be a diesel motor, maybe Bigfoot but the camper kicks ass as is.. Find a way to get you one, you won’t regret it.

I think winter camping is feasible On a regular weekend+ schedule. But you will not escape moisture, esp. with dogs. You’d have to be in El Paso for it to not be dry. Moisture mgmt in the winter will consist heating and venting either forced or passive. But all considered it is doable. You’ll need energy in a generator or deep cycle battery’s that would like to be kept warm in cold conditions. Point being your fan will draw power often in winter. I bought a Yamaha 2k generator and it has worked well for heating and cooling. Most recently kept us very comfortable in 0 degree + wind snow conditions.

Bathroom for us is nbd. We have a portable but never use it. Need to add pressurized shower tank under sides of camper, that’ll be nice. Skis in bed. Don’t use sink much but admittedly is nice to have. Cooktop a must. Furnace a must. We do use the fridge, it is a nice amenity. Bikes on back as seen below. Best addition I made is a front tray rack with large toolbox mounted on it. Carry tools wood dog food gear, etc etc etc. it is a must for us now.

All in, I spent 7500 for the truck and camper. 7500.. I can’t believe it sometimes because as I mentioned it is so fn cool to have.

Before you start drinking the FWC cool-aid, be warned, they are stupid expensive and when specked out to actually be livable, are just about as heavy as some of the lighter, cheaper campers out there. A good quality fairly lightweight camper can be found for way less than a FWC.

When FWC specs out their campers, they weigh them with absolutely nothing on them, so the weights are misleading. Do you plan on using your truck to rock-crawl around in Moab, or do you just want a usable adventure rig? I've taken my truck and camper on tons of out of the way roads, 4x4 roads, river put ins, mountain bike trail heads... without needing an off-road-specific aluminum frame...

I've owned a couple truck campers for my 2000 Tundra access cab: a 1995 Hallmark LaVeta that had a dry weight of of 665 lbs- cost me $2,600 and my current camper- a mid 2000s Northstar TC 700 that weighs about 1,000 lbs and has a propane fridge, heater, stove, fantastic fan-picked that up for $3,200.

I'd recommend looking for something cheap and functional. If that happens to be an older, good condition FWC, great. But there are also others to consider: Northstar, Hallmark, Phoenix...

I am so interested to see pictures of your wood stove idea!!!

could you email me at grantthompson (at) berkeley (dot) edu ?