Quandary Avalanche

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lph

Although in retrospect you made a mistake by going out that day

---

The mistake wasn’t going out…it was going out were he went, ie steep, windloaded rollover.

Duph and Winter could have most likely skied powder all day long in the trees without incident. This would have been a better option on a solo adventure in these conditions.

I’m really glad everything turned out ok. As others have said, props for sharing the experience and admitting your mistakes!

I had a similar sobering experience last winter when I feel asleep at the wheel walking along a ridge and almost fell off with a cracked cornice. It would have been an extremely stupid mistake as staying back on ridges is one of the basic rules for safe travel and I knew this.

http://www.tahoebackcountry.net/feat...007_tallac.jpg

Live and learn! :)

Matt,

It takes a lot of guts to post a report like this, and I hope that others will learn from your experience as well. I Got a nasty feeling in my stomach the other day when I heard about the incident before talking to you on the phone. Glad you and winter are alright, and look forward to making many more trips into the bc with you. Use this experience as an educational tool. This goes to show that experience doesn't mean anything if you're not constantly thinking of the potential dangers and taking the very basic precautions out there.

Glad you both made it back. You're a good dog owner and a lousy Avy expert. Awesome dog ya got there.

POTY! :D








damn ten character limit.....

thanks for being so honest about mistakes made and lessons learned. we _all_ have something important to learn from this tragedy narrowly averted, no matter how much experience we have.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by truth

Glad you both made it back. You're a good dog owner and a lousy Avy expert. Awesome dog ya got there.

---

So, you're automatically a lousy avy expert if you start a slide?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iskibc

So, you're automatically a lousy avy expert if you start a slide?

---

Quite the opposite. I believe most avalanches triggered by very experienced backcountry skiers. Something like the more experienced you are, the more knowledge you have, the more that you are willing to push things. At least that's what the statistics show year after year.

edited for clarity.

thank you, Duph for sharing your story, definitely an eye opener for many, and it certainly sounds like a scary experience, but LIVE and Learn, as I"m sure you will. We're all so relieved you and Winter are ok, and I"m personally glad you had a beacon on her.

repeating EPSkis question cause inquiring minds want to know:

Quote:

---

You take her to a Vet just to make sure she doesn't have any internal injuries?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by truth

You're a good dog owner and a lousy Avy expert.

---

That's a dumb statement.

Great story...
This is not only a good lesson for you, but for all of us. Those who learn from their own mistakes are smart... Those who learn from others' mistakes are wise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iskibc

So, you're automatically a lousy avy expert if you start a slide?

---

No, but the list of self admitted errors made in this story would seem to prove my statement true.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cmsummit

That's a dumb statement.

---

Thanks for playing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by truth

No, but the list of self admitted errors made in this story would seem to prove my statement true.

---

There have been a share of experied bc:ers and avalanche professionals that have been caught up by the odds/breaking their own rules in the past and will be in the future.

You can hardly say that they are "lousy avy experts".

It is just that the positive reinforcement (been there before,it has never avalanched,just a quitck lap) might get you caught in the end if you let your guard down.

We are humans after all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iskibc

Yeah, exactly what I was thinking here, but it seems like truth doesn't agree. If you spend 200+ days in the backcountry, I would guess that you would be at more of a risk. Making a statement saying one is a bad avy expert because he sets a slide off is ignorant. So, my wife who doesn't ski must be an expert because she has never started a slide?

---

Setting off the slide had nothing to do with my statement, but reading comprehsion is clearly not a skill you own. Ignoring basic avy risk assessment procedures and skiing a slope with no pit in conditions that were marginal at best accroding to the "rose", based on never having seen a slope slide or having layed tracks on it last May is what my opinion was based on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Meathelmet

There have been a share of experied bc:ers and avalanche professionals that have been caught up by the odds/breaking their own rules in the past and will be in the future.

You can hardly say that they are "lousy avy experts".

---

Yes, yes I can.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by truth

Setting off the slide had nothing to do with my statement, but reading comprehsion is clearly not a skill you own. Ignoring basic avy risk assessment procedures and skiing a slope with no pit in conditions that were marginal at best accroding to the "rose", based on never having seen a slope slide or having layed tracks on it last May is what my opinion was based on.

---

Ok, this statement makes sense. Good on you. However, does one instance still make him a lousy avy expert? Every time I've been out with duph he has taken every precaution in making sure we were safe. Again, we are human.

duph -- thanks for posting that. glad you and Winter are ok.

Props to you for the TR and ball grabbing (testifying) honesty.

Yeah !

Way to live for sure. Great to hear that all turned out for the best. Lots of love is always nice to read about ! It gave me shivers man. Nice writing and thanks for sharing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by truth

Glad you both made it back. You're a good dog owner and a lousy Avy expert. Awesome dog ya got there.

---

i don't remember anyone calling him an avalanche expert. is he a professional of some sort?

i don't think there are many people that can call themselves experts in the field and even then it is other people callng them that. i've found that the more age/knowlege a person has, the more humble they are.

it is tough to always have your A game when you see bluebird. it's even worse when those dangers, especially multiple, are buried and you have little sign. unfortunatly, not everyone calls in to the avy center before they go out. sometimes you just forget to. without that knowledge you are really just testing your skills without all the info. if the skills or your wandering mind fail you, then bad things can happen. i don't know the prior specifics of the snowpack so i can't really speak to the terrain being acceptable, but in a more stable pack that hill looks like fun. duph, glad you and the pooch came through ok. we learn as we go through life. it looks like you have turned this into a positive experience for many on the board. i hope you continue to get out in the bc and enjoy the conditional terrain. thanks for sharing :)

Thanks for posting -- A learning experience for all.

I don't know what an "Avy expert is". I do know that well educated skiers do get caught in slides. I'm not sure that it makes much of a difference, but an error is judgement is very different than a lack of knowledge.

I can believe anyone would flame him for this post....


it takes balls to admit your mistakes....We ALL fuck up from time to time. Shit happens. Personally I would have skied the same line. Maybe even after digging a pit. But i would have been with another human.


Once winter learns how to operate a beacon with paws she will be the perfect BC buddy! That dog will be ever loyal!



edit: powdaze: the CAIC was saying nothing put bad things after the new snow. Weak layer upon weak layer. FYI

Glad you two are OK. I definitely felt sick to my stomach reading that. http://www.tetongravity.com/ubb/icons/icon11.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Thanks for posting -- A learning experience for all.

I don't know what an "Avy expert is". I do know that well educated skiers do get caught in slides. I'm not sure that it makes much of a difference, but an error is judgement is very different than a lack of knowledge.

---

Does knowledge without the judgement to apply it have a value?

My original comment was not a flame, just props for diggin out his dog when his guiding choices got them in a jam. I can imagine the gut wrenching feeling in thinking one may have lost a best friend, I've been there. He's a good dog owner because he had a beacon on his dog and knew how to use it. Knowledge applied.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by truth

Does knowledge without the judgement to apply it have a value?

My original comment was not a flame, just props for diggin out his dog when his guiding choices got them in a jam.

---

No, it has very little value at all. I agree with you that he made a bad decision to ski the slope based on all the variables (no pit, no partner, fresh loading, avy warning issued, etc.). Yes, he used poor judgement on that day, however, that still doesn't make him a person that makes poor judgement all the time.

* I mean for this to be a discussion and not turn into a flame war. Let's keep it at that.