If only there was something we could do...

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Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

The most viable way to do that is through Class 3 designation.

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Only if there are resources available to ensure that questions were answered honestly and a real back ground investigation done.

As a gun owner I worry that if nothing is done this country will reach the tipping point where the majority gets the votes to repeal the 2nd amendment. Between fewer households owning guns and more voters experiencing gun violence that day will come. Seems like universal background checks, red flag laws and a buy back program that pays more than a gun is worth would be a good start.

Instead of confiscating assault rifles we could start by outlawing sales of them. No new ones hit the market and if you want to sell your current guns you sell to the feds.

And give it a rest Bobby. You contribute good things to the forum but I call you out on one piece of hypocrisy and you go into a multi day melt down. If you want validation on how amazing you and your ideas are, call mommy.

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

Afraid to answer? You could get a lot of cred in a thread discussing how to prevent 19 children from being shot and killed with a semi auto high cap gun if you could list a purpose for civilian ownership and why it’s a good tool without other better options that doesn’t involve shooting people.

Feel free to say it’s your right to own under 2a and that you don’t owe anyone an answer because you don’t. I’m just trying to get you some cred here.

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Im pretty sure the best course of action is to make sure no one smoking pot has access to firearms. Or at least that seems to be the focus. I could be off base.

A Glock 19 can be a semi auto hi cap gun. Are you asking why civilians need hand guns?

100% on all points of Flounder’s.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

Guilty as charged. I'm not sure you are aware what side I am on.

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You’d be surprised

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Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

Im pretty sure the best course of action is to make sure no one smoking pot has access to firearms.

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Deflection is not answering my question.

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Originally Posted by garyfromterrace

Yes, it certainly seems to be a "door locking" issue at the heart of the matter. The reason we don't have the school shootings up here in Canada is the vigilance of the hall monitors who tightly enforce the locked door policies. It's a fucking gun problem, well that and a fucking attitude problem for about 40% of your population.

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Your replying to reply I made to a post days ago out of context where someone posted a picture of a maximum security prison. Try and keep up here bud.


Obviously there are gun control measures that need enacted but I don’t have a decade to wait until those effects kick in. I have a kid in first grade right now and we need to enforce the low hanging fruit partial solutions immediately.

There’s no doubt keeping the school doors locked and the classroom doors locked would slow down an attack if someone made an attempt. In fact my kids school already sent notifications regarding this on Thursday so I’m not talking out my ass.

Sure between classes and recess etc. wouldn’t matter but at least your reducing an option for a shooter.

- Cue some dipshit posting - “the doors were locked at blah blah school and that didn’t help” here’s your preemptive “eat a dick”.

Why are small incremental solutions so hard for some of you to wrap your head around. Some silver bullet sweeping gun control legislation would be great but I don’t have 10 years to see its impact.






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News Flash: BS is a troll without merit.
Consider redirecting your energies to writing to representatives, yours as well as others.

Hammer down on the fact that guns now kill more kids than anything else in America.

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

Among the tropes always repeated about gun control are 'Chicago' and 'Why don't we enforce the laws on the books?' The problem with both arguments is the laws are purposely toothless making it possible for gun sellers to get off easy even after repeatedly selling guns to criminals:

Over the past two decades, the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has let some of the Chicago area’s most notorious gun sellers off the hook for serious violations of federal law that included selling to straw purchasers, transferring guns without background checks and doctoring sales records.
...

ATF can revoke a gun dealer’s license only if the seller willfully violates the law. That’s different from most areas of civil and criminal law, in which defendants can’t use ignorance as an excuse for wrongdoing. To revoke a license, ATF inspectors have to prove a gun dealer intentionally disregarded the rules.

Proving that a dealer disregarded these laws intentionally can be difficult.

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Most people are surprised when they find themselves in an experience where they learn the laws around us are not enforced. Imagine how a murder victims family feels when they get a speeding ticket.


Best bet is to control the guns at the source, manufacturer controls, limits, distribution. Add taxes that make them cost prohibitive, requires licenses etc.


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Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless

Im pretty sure the best course of action is to make sure no one smoking pot has access to firearms. Or at least that seems to be the focus. I could be off base.

A Glock 19 can be a semi auto hi cap gun. Are you asking why civilians need hand guns?

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Nice edit and another deflection. No, I’m asking you why you have the gun you do. I’m not talking about MJ use, anyone else’s ownership, what type of guns they own etc. You’ve commented twice that I don’t understand firearms so I’m seeking understanding on why someone like you owns the firearms you do. I think it would give your points credibility. You do post good ideas sometimes. I’m all for armalite or MSR style weapons being listed as class three and even increasing the stamp price for those. 20m x $300 would be a hell of a start towards to many other necessary fixes.

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Guilty as charged. I'm not sure you are aware what side I am on.

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dude -
You've made it Clear -
You are on your side.

That's great.

smoke a doobie, and
cancel your Class3 assault rifle -

and please,
go jump in the lake, dude...


tj

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Originally Posted by jackstraw

it's the fucking semi-auto high capacity guns.

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I hear you.

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Originally Posted by Flounder

Only if there are resources available to ensure that questions were answered honestly and a real back ground investigation done.

As a gun owner I worry that if nothing is done this country will reach the tipping point where the majority gets the votes to repeal the 2nd amendment. Between fewer households owning guns and more voters experiencing gun violence that day will come. Seems like universal background checks, red flag laws and a buy back program that pays more than a gun is worth would be a good start.

Instead of confiscating assault rifles we could start by outlawing sales of them. No new ones hit the market and if you want to sell your current guns you sell to the feds.

And give it a rest Bobby. You contribute good things to the forum but I call you out on one piece of hypocrisy and you go into a multi day melt down. If you want validation on how amazing you and your ideas are, call mommy.

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+2. Thank you. tj

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Originally Posted by skiJ

dude -
You've made it Clear -
You are on your side.

That's great.

smoke a doobie, and
cancel your Class3 assault rifle -

and please,
go jump in the lake, dude...


tj

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Switched to booze. It's legal!

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Originally Posted by oldnew_guy

You guys can go read any of the last few threads on this topic and will find BS making the same arguments. So have fun with banging your head against that wall.

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Whose to say it’s not fun on both sides? The walls here are padded.

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

Nice edit and another deflection. No, I’m asking you why you have the gun you do. I’m not talking about MJ use, anyone else’s ownership, what type of guns they own etc. You’ve commented twice that I don’t understand firearms so I’m seeking understanding on why someone like you owns the firearms you do. I think it would give your points credibility. You do post good ideas sometimes. I’m all for armalite or MSR style weapons being listed as class three and even increasing the stamp price for those. 20m x $300 would be a hell of a start towards to many other necessary fixes.

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Sold them all.

TN doesn't require background checks on private gun sales. Hopefully the buyer has a better safe and more training than I do. Thank God I'm not contributing to the issue anymore though.

I think we can all leave here satisfied we've accomplished something.

*wipes hands of situation knowing that Im not an evil gun owner anymore*

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

Did you hold on to the baby yoda mag as a keepsake?

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Absolutely not. That's way too childish for someone to own. Not serious enough.

You kept the “my other weapon is a nimbus 2000” mag though, right potter fan?

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Originally Posted by AK47bp

Sure between classes and recess etc. wouldn’t matter but at least your reducing an option for a shooter.

- Cue some dipshit posting - “the doors were locked at blah blah school and that didn’t help” here’s your preemptive “eat a dick”.

Why are small incremental solutions so hard for some of you to wrap your head around. Some silver bullet sweeping gun control legislation would be great but I don’t have 10 years to see its impact.






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it’s just a bad solution to turn schools into prisons and the “doors locked” solution doesn’t take into account user error, windows, fires, the other shit that can happen. the killings happen so quickly too that once they’re underway it’s like gee, that didn’t work. same with armed guards like uvalde and buffalo. the only thing is to go after the access to guns themselves. anything less means this shit happens more frequently.

is this “lock the doors” legislation which will accomplish nothing fly through congress? of course not. let’s get something with teeth now rather than kick the can over the corpses of another bunch of perforated children.

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Originally Posted by dunfree

You kept the “my other weapon is a nimbus 2000” mag though, right potter fan?

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What's that? I'm not into Harry Potter. Im an adult.


I like Lord of the Rings.

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Originally Posted by ex-powderbroker

it’s just a bad solution to turn schools into prisons and the “doors locked” solution doesn’t take into account user error, windows, fires, the other shit that can happen. the killings happen so quickly too that once they’re underway it’s like gee, that didn’t work. same with armed guards like uvalde and buffalo. the only thing is to go after the access to guns themselves. anything less means this shit happens more frequently.

is this “lock the doors” legislation which will accomplish nothing fly through congress? of course not. let’s get something with teeth now rather than kick the can over the corpses of another bunch of perforated children.

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There it is.


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Originally Posted by anotherVTskibum

If we could get to the situation in another developed nation, we could probably pick one at random, use their gun laws, and see much better results.

The big difference is the second amendment, which I'm fairly sure is uniquely American. I'd personally be in favor of amending it to clearly allow much more regulation, but a lot of people get very prickly at the thought of doing so. And lot of those people are relatively concentrated in certain political divisions. Add to that the sheer volume of guns already in circulation, and it becomes a much harder problem to solve. Getting enough people onboard for a massive change a la Australia just doesn't seem feasible here, although I'd love to be wrong.

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You're not necessarily wrong about any of that, but just throwing up our hands and saying 'it's impossible' is self-defeating nihilism that the NRA has tried to convince us is fact. We're decidedly worse off than other countries on this, and yeah, 2nd A is part of it (of course until Heller it had never been interpreted to guarantee an individual right, and anyone who can read can see that it's twisted to interpret it beyond its obvious military intent--so we don't need to change 2A, we just need a SCOTUS that isn't radically hard right intent on legislating from the bench). But if we were able to get strict gun laws and enforce them things would change--again, we have evidence in this country that it can work. And if there are hold-outs then we'd need to go after them and they'd face the consequences of not obeying the law. Not that big a deal, and the vast majority would fall in line without a fight. But it will obviously, like health care, have to be incremental, one way or another. Not having a SCOTUS that reflects a far-right minority of the country will be part of it.

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Originally Posted by jackstraw

Jfc. The fucking doors. Yup.

School doors open and close all damn day. Ever hear of recess? Or outdoor classes? So when the door opens and a fucktard with ak47's walks up and shoots everything in sight and continues in that open door that is the issue?
Or he just walks up and blows thru the glass windows or doors?

Fuck you and anyone placing blame on a fucking door being open. The door in Buffalo was wide open. Didn't hear about that being an issue.

Maybe, just maybe, it's the fucking semi-auto high capacity guns.

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Yup. Fucksticks need to STFU about open doors, better mental health, whatever other distraction bullshit they're ponying out. More guns=more gun violence. And here we are.

The door talking point is just a mis direction ploy, let’s get everyone going down the door rabbit hole and stop talking about the fucking gun problem


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Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

Yup. Fucksticks need to STFU about open doors, better mental health, whatever other distraction bullshit they're ponying out. More guns=more gun violence. And here we are.

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There we are.


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Originally Posted by AK47bp

There it is.

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Thanks for making the attempt. The problem we have in this cuntry is clarifying by the minute: we can't focus on more than one thing at a time so we let the blind tell us that every improvement is "just a distraction" from the preferred solution, which is usually just as fraught with details and potential downsides as all the minor improvements.

We could do more than one thing. If we get creative we might even be able to fit them all in the same letter.

“Better gun control policies never get pushed through because random strangers from the general public don’t know enough about guns to debate the merits of these policies” is either hall of fame level stupidity or just a dishonest and lazy dismissal.

Bobby when you get through your weed withdrawal maybe weigh in on which it is. Watch Trainspotting for tips on how to get through it.

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Originally Posted by jono

We could do more than one thing. If we get creative we might even be able to fit them all in the same letter.

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FWIW, schools are going to continue the hardening process that started after Columbine no matter what. I don't think anyone is actually opposed to that as much as they are opposed to the need for it.

It's more an argument about competing narratives. One side wants stricter gun control laws while the other wants to increase security casting the shooting as a mental health problem, not a gun problem.

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Originally Posted by AK47bp

There it is.


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i wasn’t telling you to eat a dick, but i guess you don’t like considering other opinions. here’s how stupid you sound:


Attachment 417556

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Originally Posted by ex-powderbroker

not telling you to eat a dick, but i guess you don’t like considering other opinions. here’s how stupid you sound:


Attachment 417556

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Only problem with your meme is that Flex Tape actually works in that ad, so you sound supportive of GOP policies

fine.

Attachment 417557

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

FWIW, schools are going to continue the hardening process that started after Columbine. I don't think anyone is actually opposed to that as much as they are opposed that being the only solution. Or maybe it's lamenting the need for more security, more SWAT, more militaristic solutions.

It's more an argument of competitive narratives. One side wants stricter gun control laws while the other wants to increase security casting the shooting as a mental health problem, not a gun problem.

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And that's what is wrong. "One side" this and the "other" that as an entrenched narrative is wrong and harmful. Unless the only goal is "winning" at domestic politics. Which is the wrong goal.

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

FWIW, schools are going to continue the hardening process that started after Columbine. I don't think anyone is actually opposed to that as much as they are opposed that being the only solution. Or maybe it's lamenting the need for more security, more SWAT, more militaristic solutions.

It's more an argument about competing narratives. One side wants stricter gun control laws while the other wants to increase security casting the shooting as a mental health problem, not a gun problem.

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I'm only here to point out that the narrative that school hardening began after Columbine is incorrect. I'm not trying to infer that people here have had privileged upbringings (myself included) but police officers at schools and locked doors/closed campuses were a thing before Columbine. It was a thing at my high school and probably the schools I attended before that but I can't remember for certain.

How big was the city/town where you went to school? I was still in high school in a smallish ~25K Midwestern city in the early 90s before Columbine and at the time there was no security, no locked doors. We didn't bring guns to school but we routinely had guns in our cars to go dove, pheasant, deer hunting after school.

Whereas today Uvalde's population is only 16K and people are rightly criticizing the school for lax security and their SWAT team for not being more combat effective.

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

How big the city/town where you went to school? I was still in high school in a smallish ~25k Midwestern city in the early 90s before Columbine and at the time there was no security, no locked doors. We didn't bring guns to school but we routinely had guns in our cars to go dove, pheasant, deer hunting after school.

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I just checked the population and the county was 750k at the time and in metro DC (3 million population around that time). At the time it was probably and probably still is considered the "roughest" county in the area but by no means was I going to school in a war zone.

Did I see you on The Wire?

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Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

Did I see you on The Wire?

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Because it sounds to you like I went to school in the ghetto and not one of, if not the richest black counties in the US?

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Originally Posted by jono

And that's what is wrong. "One side" this and the "other" that as an entrenched narrative is wrong and harmful. Unless the only goal is "winning" at domestic politics. Which is the wrong goal.

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+1. Thank you. tj

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Originally Posted by bennymac

“Better gun control policies never get pushed through because random strangers from the general public don’t know enough about guns to debate the merits of these policies” is either hall of fame level stupidity or just a dishonest and lazy dismissal.

Bobby when you get through your weed withdrawal maybe weigh in on which it is. Watch Trainspotting for tips on how to get through it.

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If you are calling for automatic weapons to get banned, then you might need to brush up on your gun laws. If you can't correctly identify a gun from a magazine, you might need to brush up on your gun knowledge. If you constantly repeat "semi automatic hi cap guns", then you might want to define what you are trying to ban.

Or don't.

I'm basing my opinion on the anti gun crowd here at TGR. Car forums are usually full of the other side.

I appreciate your concern. Day drinking fills in the gap nicely. I'm not nearly as sharp though.

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Originally Posted by concretejungle

I just checked the population and the county was 750k at the time and in metro DC (3 million population around that time). At the time it was probably and probably still is considered the "roughest" county in the area but by no means was I going to school in a war zone.

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Yeah, I attended elementary school in the Norfolk area and there was more fencing, more concern about kids walking home alone. It's probably a distinction without a difference but security was more about crime than it was about mass shootings.

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Originally Posted by concretejungle

Because it sounds to you like I went to school in the ghetto and not one of, if not the richest black counties in the US?

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Didn't sound to me like either one. Was just fucking around based on the D.C. proximity. Say hi to Omar and McNulty.