Wasatch Dirt Thread

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Originally Posted by Boissal

I was surprised to sniff some very strong fire smoke at the campground, apparently it's not quite dry/hot/windy enough for the FS to ban open fires. Smart really, there's too much brush in LCC, we need it controlled and since nobody's out raking the woods burning the whole thing to the ground is the next best option.

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The FS is going into stage 1 fire restrictions tonight where open flames are banned everywhere except developed campgrounds and picnic areas. In these sites the FS installs metal fire rights surrounded by concrete and clears all the brush around so the likelihood of a wildfire starting in a developed site is minimal under most conditions. Under stage 2 fire restrictions, all flames are banned. This is incredibly difficult to enforce, and when wildfire risk is elevated (past extreme) the FS often goes straight to stage 3 restrictions which closes down all public access. The FS in northern Utah has only gone into stage 2 restrictions once, 2011 I believe, and never stage 3. This could be the year..

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Originally Posted by Phall

huh. I bet they were out putting up some cameras for archery season. You should kindly inform them that E bikes are not permitted on USFS non-motorized trails currently.

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I didn't look to see if they were mopeds or not. Probably a safe assumption, but I'm way beyond confronting people about it and it wasn't far below the rock garden and I was still gassed and trying to get feeling back in my hands.

yeah, I am too for the most part, but we called in a few on a hunt last year, non-motorized trail on USFS, we were walking in and got dusted. called fish and game and they said they would 100% issue a citation for illegal take if they were caught, I'm for e-bikes, but I'm for following the rules. The lack of advocacy and education coming from the hunt-focused E-bike market is infuriating. There are now one wheel E-Game carts that people are taking into roadless/non-motorized areas for hunting, so I have no idea how those would be classified.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Interesting wildlife sighting in Honeycomb last night--two chubby dudes in full camo on fat bikes.

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I've witnessed a similar scene a few times last hear, once on Crest, once of the backside of MoPi, and once on Sheep trail. The lads I ran into were definitely on e-bikes.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Popular trails being empty in the evenings is definitely a thing. People like to be home for dinner, I guess.

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Starting after work pretty much guarantees you'll be on your own and if you don't mind the 10 PM dinner it's perfect.
This year is weird on the crowding front, the trails look like they're being ridden by millions of people but I almost never see more than a couple bikers no matter what time I'm out. I rode Crest from PC this morning, started at 9:30ish up Jenni's, and didn't see a soul until the yurt where I ran into a pack of people. It was sleeper after that, saw 2 riders at the base of puke hill and 3 on top. No human sighting down Crest/Millcreek Meadows/GWT, nothing dropping into Canyons until the bottom of Ricochet where I almost creamed a pair of hikers. They were about 50' past the the DH BIKE TRAIL DO NOT HIKE sign hiding on the inside of a really loose corner. I thought I was toast for sure as I had to stand the bike up halfway through the turn, go straight, the lean hard again. That's not the best cornering technique in my experience but somehow the bike tolerated the move and I came out of the turn in what probably looked like a controlled 2 wheel drift (it absolutely wasn't). Terrifying for me and the hikers looked like they had just been tickled by the grim reaper. I informed them that the trail is indeed opened even when the lifts aren't running (they were) and headed home to wash the stains in my chamois.

Living across the street from the Canyons, I can safely say that there are hikers on all down hill only trails. The crazy part is they will often yell at you. You just cannot open it up like pre covid. Ditto for the little down hill sections at Olympic Park

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Originally Posted by Boissal

No human sighting down Crest/Millcreek Meadows/GWT

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Its an odd-numbered day so the commercial shuttles aren't running as much since *technically* you can't ride upper Millcreek trails even when the gate is still closed. Yesterday I saw lots of riders coming down the crest at 8pm into Millcreek.

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Originally Posted by Canada1

Living across the street from the Canyons, I can safely say that there are hikers on all down hill only trails. The crazy part is they will often yell at you.

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https://memegenerator.net/img/instan...gone-crazy.jpg

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

https://memegenerator.net/img/instan...gone-crazy.jpg

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I think they go out looking for a fight rather than to enjoy it. They go up the right trails and walk down the down hill trails. They have off leash dogs, and are not agile, so if you happen into them when there is a berm or something, they have no chance at escape. I've stopped saying anything other than Good Morning. I honestly am surprised someone like my kids haven't taken them out yet. My oldest did get pretty cut up last year about this time dodging a family hiking up richochet. It is just the new dynamic. So many new users on the trails. That said, I'm still riding and having fun every day. If you get above mid mountain, the trails are in great shape and the crowds are less.
My youngest did her first race this week over at PCMR, so we pre rode there a few times. That parking lot is full with cyclist. Freaking amazing the numbers using the system. I knew there were more people, but when you see a couple hundred cars in a parking lot it really sinks in.

if you’re starting in park city, is there a preferred or designated or good-etiquette route to climb up to crest?

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Originally Posted by mall walker

if you’re starting in park city, is there a preferred or designated or good-etiquette route to climb up to crest?

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Finally branching out, eh?

The most popular route is Armstrong/MM/Pinecone. It's popular for a reason, really nice singletrack all the way to ridge.

The other option is Jenni's/CMG/Apex/Keystone/Shadow Lake/Puke Hill. Nice singletrack to Scotts Pass, but having to finish with Puke Hill means there's >90% fewer people.

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Originally Posted by mall walker

if you’re starting in park city, is there a preferred or designated or good-etiquette route to climb up to crest?

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Armstrong to Pinecone is the most common and direct. There are many service roads you can take instead, but they are often loose and steep. I've taken SR224 to Guardsman from PC before and it was a little faster.

I've heard that the FS is closing upper Millcreek trails tomorrow because they are using a helicopter to bring in some bridge materials to Dog Lake. Don't ask me why this is happening on a Saturday.

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Originally Posted by Benneke10

Its an odd-numbered day so the commercial shuttles aren't running as much since *technically* you can't ride upper Millcreek trails even when the gate is still closed. Yesterday I saw lots of riders coming down the crest at 8pm into Millcreek.

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I figured the odd-day thing was part of the deal but there's also Crest shuttling on the PC side no? I know the Crest experience dictates a run all the way down Millcreek but the PC options are pretty damn worthy too and have the good taste of not including a dumb section of pavement.
Not that I'm complaining about an empty Crest!

Btw, some kind soul cleared the big ass deadfall from the Millcreek Meadows trail, no more tree bouldering. Someone also built a large number of what I assume are water bars on that trail. They're tall and steep and located completely randomly, mostly in spots where I've never seen a lick of water even at peak snowmelt. Gotta protect the dusty trench from these heavy rains we keep getting I guess.

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Originally Posted by mall walker

if you’re starting in park city, is there a preferred or designated or good-etiquette route to climb up to crest?

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Given what you're riding the Armstrong Pinecone option will make you happier. Jenni/T2S/Apex/Shadow is quieter and I like it a lot more but as others have pointed out it's a bit more techy and includes puke hill. 9k is also an option, great dirt sidewalk but it's getting up there in mileage (and it includes puke hill).

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Originally Posted by Boissal

I know the Crest experience dictates a run all the way down Millcreek but the PC options are pretty damn worthy too and have the good taste of not including a dumb section of pavement.

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Pavement isn't the dumb part of riding all the way out Millcreek. Pipeline could vanish tomorrow and I wouldn't even blink. The way to ride upper Millcreek is to start in BCC, pedal back up Big Water and exit via Mill D.

Me looking at dfinn's Crest ride on Strava a few days back and seeing that they skipped Pipeline and cruised out the road the whole way (beer in-hand, hopefully):

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-st...62726902-1.gif

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Originally Posted by Boissal

and includes puke hill.

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You say that like it's a bad thing!

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Originally Posted by Boissal

Given what you're riding the Armstrong Pinecone option will make you happier. Jenni/T2S/Apex/Shadow is quieter and I like it a lot more but as others have pointed out it's a bit more techy and includes puke hill. 9k is also an option, great dirt sidewalk but it's getting up there in mileage (and it includes puke hill).

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puke hill is scott hill above usa bowl? I thought it was just an unpleasant two track?

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Originally Posted by mall walker

puke hill is scott hill above usa bowl? I thought it was just an unpleasant two track?

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That's it, exactly. I did it for the first time with Benneke10 the other week and I didn't think it was worthy of it's reputation. Granted I did end up walking the last 100' but that's more a comment on what a fatass I am than anything.

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Originally Posted by mall walker

if you’re starting in park city, is there a preferred or designated or good-etiquette route to climb up to crest?

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I like deer crest to mid mountain to tour de suds to 9K then up puke hill. There are a lot of ways to do it. Armstong -pine cone is certainly the prevalent as everyone has said. It has the upside of being mostly wooded, and thus cooler if your doing it mid day.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

You say that like it's a bad thing!

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I just came here to say that I like puke hill.

I'd rather do the other routes mentioned than armstrong to pinecone, but only for two reasons: 1.) I like descending pinecone more than climbing it 2.) I like the "suffering"

Also if i know mallwalker like I think I do, I think he'll dig the challenge that is puke hill.

My advice: There's so many great blue trails in PC, best just to pedal around somewhat aimless until you reach a turnaround time and then descend.

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Originally Posted by Canada1

That parking lot is full with cyclist. Freaking amazing the numbers using the system. I knew there were more people, but when you see a couple hundred cars in a parking lot it really sinks in.

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It baffles my mind that the PC planning commission is even considering approving Vail's project of developing those lots. Also, heard the summit county council is floating the idea of permit system to access Basin Recs trails, which is going to push 50% more trail users into parking in neighborhoods. Gonna get real ugly in PC if both these get approval. Rode colins-robs-ambush-insurgent last night and noticed a new sign at the bottom of Colin's saying no street parking at that trailhead (PC community Church is kind of enough to let trail users use their lots, unlike mormons that gate their lots), but it still kinda pisses me off that they're trying to restrict parking on public streets..... I rode that route a lot last year and I was typically the only car parking there. /endrant

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Pavement isn't the dumb part of riding all the way out Millcreek. Pipeline could vanish tomorrow and I wouldn't even blink. The way to ride upper Millcreek is to start in BCC, pedal back up Big Water and exit via Mill D.

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I picked the pavement part cause the last time I did it was on the road bike and it was heinous. For at least 1 mile below the Little Water TH the road is basically a single lane with cars parked on both sides and terrified drivers oozing up and down at 5 mph. On a bike you basically have to pass them which is sketch as fuck. I'd be super bummed if it were my first time riding the famed Crest and I had to deal with that shit after the glory that is lower Big Water trail. I haven't been on Pipeline/Rattlesnake since my hardtail days and I can't say I remember that section fondly. Could be fun high speed XC if it weren't full of people and dogs.
100% agree with you on the best way to ride upper Millcreek, that's actually my go-to Crest ride. When I feel particularly gluttonous I slog back up to Crest via Deso to exit Beartrap. The HAB along the spine is all time misery.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

You say that like it's a bad thing!

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I could do without Puke hill in general since it's so out of character with the rest of the loop. It's short enough that it's not something I dread but I can't say I've ever enjoyed it, especially on longer days, and even more so now that I routinely get passed by ebikers coasting up the thing while chatting away (yes, I'm jealous). I enjoy passing 30+ people pushing their bikes when I land myself in the middle of a shuttle group though. I always wonder what goes through their head if it's their first time up there, they've been sold on the best and longest DH in the world but have spent the last 30 minutes bouncing down a dusty trench with giant holes and are now baking in the sun pushing their rental up some shitty steep dirt road... REFUND!

Most of the land up there is probably private (old mining claims) which is probably why there isn't a section of switbacky singletrack bypassing the 2-track. I'd ride it. Last fall I checked the abandoned double track that takes off from the saddle at the base of Puke Hill and contours over to the Scottish Chief mine directly below the radio towers. It's mostly single track and quite pleasant but when it fades out you have to HAB straight up the hillside (turns out USA bowl sucks as bad in the summer as it does in the winter). That could be remedied with a bit of new trail and it would bypass most of the shitty double track riding at the start of Crest.

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Originally Posted by tgapp

That's it, exactly. I did it for the first time with Benneke10 the other week and I didn't think it was worthy of it's reputation. Granted I did end up walking the last 100' but that's more a comment on what a fatass I am than anything.

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Hum... I'd say the fact that you got spanked and had to push the bike suggests it actually lived up to said reputation: steep and shitty. Or did you expect it to look like the cable route on Half Dome?

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Originally Posted by Boissal

I picked the pavement part cause the last time I did it was on the road bike and it was heinous. For at least 1 mile below the Little Water TH the road is basically a single lane with cars parked on both sides and terrified drivers oozing up and down at 5 mph.

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There's the Big Water-Alexander connector trail now which minimizes that kind of bullshit. Millcreek should probably be a Zion-type shuttle bus system at this point.

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Originally Posted by Boissal

I haven't been on Pipeline/Rattlesnake since my hardtail days and I can't say I remember that section fondly. Could be fun high speed XC if it weren't full of people and dogs.

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Most of Pipeline is like -0.5%, pedally AF. So not worth the cost of a shuttle or the hassle of the long car retrieval.

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Originally Posted by Boissal

I could do without Puke hill in general since it's so out of character with the rest of the loop. It's short enough that it's not something I dread but I can't say I've ever enjoyed it, especially on longer days

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The nice part about it is that it keeps people off the Shadow Lake route.

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Originally Posted by Boissal

Most of the land up there is probably private (old mining claims) which is probably why there isn't a section of switbacky singletrack bypassing the 2-track. I'd ride it. Last fall I checked the abandoned double track that takes off from the saddle at the base of Puke Hill and contours over to the Scottish Chief mine directly below the radio towers. It's mostly single track and quite pleasant but when it fades out you have to HAB straight up the hillside (turns out USA bowl sucks as bad in the summer as it does in the winter). That could be remedied with a bit of new trail and it would bypass most of the shitty double track riding at the start of Crest.

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Extending the Scottish Chief route would be great (although assuredly some twat would complain that cutting a trail across USA Bowl would ruin the viewshed) and for sure would be preferable. It's definitely all private, though the ownership all shows up as "Null" on the SLCo parcel viewer. The other obvious connection would be to cut a trail around the east side of the Puke Hill knob and connect to Pinecone, basically an extension on 9k. That's all Talisker/Vail land and seems easy in principle, but who knows.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Millcreek should probably be a Zion-type shuttle bus system at this point.

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There are serious people working to make this happen in MCC, BCC and LCC. Enjoy your freedom while you can.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

ruin the viewshed

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This. The entire team at SOC would immediately self combust at the mere mention of a trail in pristine USA bowl. It's true, if you shield your eyes carefully you can spot nice patches of sagebrush between the old dirt roads, the radio towers, the mine tailings, the houses, the lift towers, etc...
Just like in the SLC foothills really, pristine wilderness unmarred by 100s of miles of old dirt roads, oil pipelines, power lines, etc... I'm surprised there isn't a major shitstorm over the new trail cut at the mouth of BCC, the one which I presume was put in to access the Powder Ridge crag from Ferguson canyon. That thing is a major eyesore but it seems like the SLCA is somehow on the good side of SOC so it's not as contentious.

I'll take a shuttle up Millcreek if the tradeoff is the removal of all scout camps.

Edit: speaking of SOC, anyone seen this shit?
Bulldozing peaks, 1 million sq ft of habitat lost in a roadless area, fucking hell... Whoever their propagandist is, they need to start writing horror novels.
I love the pitch for inclusivity, "all city residents have a right to access public land", nice job finding a stock pick of 4 of the most white bread people ever.

Attachment 377403

lol yeah I appreciate the local wilderness designations we have, which I understand to some extent have been helped by SOC. but the foothills are just rich peoples back yards, already riddled with unofficial trails, old people, dogs, the works. new trails (and parking) are good things. new bike trails are good things. SOC just swims in their lane regardless of context it seems.

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Originally Posted by Boissal

I'm surprised there isn't a major shitstorm over the new trail cut at the mouth of BCC, the one which I presume was put in to access the Powder Ridge crag from Ferguson canyon. That thing is a major eyesore but it seems like the SLCA is somehow on the good side of SOC so it's not as contentious.

I'll take a shuttle up Millcreek if the tradeoff is the removal of all scout camps.

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The trail is a new section of the BST and it has definitely caused a (less public) shitstorm. What makes matters worse is some climbers (not SLCA) are illegally building a trail nearby. SOC and all the other enviro groups, along with Utah's full congressional delegation and governor support building the BST so homeowner complaints are not magnified as much there.

Those scout camps aren't going anywhere any time soon, they are on private property.

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Originally Posted by Benneke10

The trail is a new section of the BST and it has definitely caused a (less public) shitstorm. What makes matters worse is some climbers (not SLCA) are illegally building a trail nearby. SOC and all the other enviro groups, along with Utah's full congressional delegation and governor support building the BST so homeowner complaints are not magnified as much there.

Those scout camps aren't going anywhere any time soon, they are on private property.

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Oh interesting, it looks like it ended at the granite and give the approach to that crag I figured it could be a new access. The crag sees very light traffic though so it seemed excessive. You know the alignment for that new trail? Seems to be going nowhere...

Re: Scouts, I was jesting. I positively despise the camps but I think they've been here for about as long as the state has so it's safe to say they'll never go away.

The new trail will connect the BCC road with the Ferguson TH

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Originally Posted by Benneke10

The new trail will connect the BCC road with the Ferguson TH

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Weird. I assume it's heading up canyon a bit until it enters the wilderness and can drop to the road past the super mansion that is at the easternmost end of Prospector Drive? Then what, find a way above the old new development on the N side of BCC and connect to Heughs/Oly segments?

Pretty much yeah, it stays above the mansions on Prospector and stays out of the Wilderness so bikes will be able to use it. And there will be a new trail above the gross new mansions to connect BCC with Heughs in a couple years. Post Malone hired a big corporate law firm to sue the FS because he doesn't like the new trail is above his house, I don't think it will go anywhere though.

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Originally Posted by Benneke10

Pretty much yeah, it stays above the mansions on Prospector and stays out of the Wilderness so bikes will be able to use it. And there will be a new trail above the gross new mansions to connect BCC with Heughs in a couple years. Post Malone hired a big corporate law firm to sue the FS because he doesn't like the new trail is above his house, I don't think it will go anywhere though.

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HA! Fuck that guy with a sharp stick! Hope he gets to look at a parade of spandex for the rest of his days.

Glad to see the Shoreline project is still moving forward. As crusty as that trail is in places I'd love to be able to ride 100s of miles of it all up and down the valley.

First time back in Park City this week after moving away 8 years ago. The trails are just as amazing as I remember. The crowds though… holy shit! Even midweek the PCMR parking lot looks like it’s ski season, but with bike racks. Can only imagine what a shit show the weekends are.


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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Me looking at dfinn's Crest ride on Strava a few days back and seeing that they skipped Pipeline and cruised out the road the whole way (beer in-hand, hopefully):

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-st...62726902-1.gif

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Without stopping I reached around into my hip pack, grabbed my 2nd beer and opened it with my teeth. I thoroughly enjoyed that pavement cruise out. It was a tough call whether this was the coolest thing I did all night or whether it was a spectacular crash that sent me tumbling off the side of Millcreek Meadows trail, into the trees.

Pipeline can f right off.

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Originally Posted by Boissal

Edit: speaking of SOC, anyone seen this shit?

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I'm pretty sure that Save Our Foothills is not formally affiliated with SOC; they're just stealing credibility by using a similar name, like Blue Iguana (if a bike advocacy org pulled the same move SOC would probably sue them). Here's SOC's blog post about this:

https://saveourcanyons.org/the-lates...d-city-council

It's a lot less overtly cunty, but "prioritization of environmental protection" is probably just code for the same anti-bike NIMBY crap.

x2 on Post Malone can eat a bag of dicks, and anyone else who thinks owning an expensive home on the edge of the city gives them the right to restrict access to public land and obstruct great projects like the BST master plan.

yeah the “I have the privilege of living adjacent to public land and somehow I think it’s my own personal land now” people can all go fuck themselves. don’t like being around a busy trailhead? don’t buy a house next to one. plenty of quiet spots in the valley.

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Originally Posted by brutah

I just came here to say that I like puke hill.

I'd rather do the other routes mentioned than armstrong to pinecone, but only for two reasons: 1.) I like descending pinecone more than climbing it 2.) I like the "suffering"

Also if i know mallwalker like I think I do, I think he'll dig the challenge that is puke hill.

My advice: There's so many great blue trails in PC, best just to pedal around somewhat aimless until you reach a turnaround time and then descend.

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Totally agree, I don’t climb pinecone because I love descending it so much. Shadow lake to puke hill for me.

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Originally Posted by Benneke10

Armstrong to Pinecone is the most common and direct. There are many service roads you can take instead, but they are often loose and steep. I've taken SR224 to Guardsman from PC before and it was a little faster.

I've heard that the FS is closing upper Millcreek trails tomorrow because they are using a helicopter to bring in some bridge materials to Dog Lake. Don't ask me why this is happening on a Saturday.

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I have no knowledge but getting heli time is hard during fire season and weekends are when volunteers can show up for trail building.


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Originally Posted by Dantheman

I'm pretty sure that Save Our Foothills is not formally affiliated with SOC; they're just stealing credibility by using a similar name, like Blue Iguana (if a bike advocacy org pulled the same move SOC would probably sue them). Here's SOC's blog post about this:

https://saveourcanyons.org/the-lates...d-city-council

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SOC emailed me the save our foothills flyer this week. I responded saying they need to stay in their lane and stop doing the bidding of rich homeowners (not in those exact terms) and got a pretty lengthy response from their campaign coordinator. I think they're very much affiliated with each other. Not to mention the doom-n-gloom tone of that flyer smells like SOC propaganda.

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Originally Posted by altacoup

Totally agree, I don’t climb pinecone because I love descending it so much. Shadow lake to puke hill for me.

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Exactly, puke hill is a 10-15 minute grind. It's not that bad, throw it in the granny gear and keep spinning those pedals and it's over before ya know it. To me, it's the price of admission to the crest and a small price at that

Attachment 377449

Lot at PCMR looking like a mid winter pow day this morning.

Lot was packed, trails were no busier than years past. Left lot at ~11, rode jennis/tommys/silver queen/moosehouse, trails were relatively quiet, all things considered. We stayed off MM as much as possible. Moosehouse is running good but getting loose.
Me
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Lady
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Originally Posted by brutah

SOC emailed me the save our foothills flyer this week. I responded saying they need to stay in their lane and stop doing the bidding of rich homeowners (not in those exact terms) and got a pretty lengthy response from their campaign coordinator. I think they're very much affiliated with each other. Not to mention the doom-n-gloom tone of that flyer smells like SOC propaganda.

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Good grief. Care to share the response?

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Good grief. Care to share the response?

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Why does this Snobbery, NIMBY, attitude exist in the the Avenues foothills and not Corner Canyon? ...I mean there are trails in Corner Canyon that literally run along peoples backyards and no one seem to mind. Everyone down there seems to be on board with the CC system and development with biking and hiking specific trails....but soon as you get to the Avenues its a completely different vibe.

Basically what im getting at is why cant they look to CC as an model for the Avenues trail network.