Intuition liners

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Originally Posted by counterfeitfake

I have a new pair of Tecnica Zero G Touring boots in 28.5, a size up from what I wear in alpine boots. They're an improvement over my last touring boots, but I would still like to feel more locked in when skiing. I have a really skinny flat narrow foot and pretty low volume ankle. I would really like a liner to take up as much space as possible, lock my heel down, and provide a good stiff feeling through the cuff.

I filled out the questionnaire at Intuition's website and the answer I was given was "Pro Tour MV 29". However I'm wondering 1. Why not HV? 2. Would a wrap work better? I've toured in wrap liners before back in the olden days (Garmont Megaride days). I was okay with how they toured and it seems worth it to suffer a bit to make the skiing better. I don't think I'm concerned with this making the boots uncomfortable.

Does anyone else have a similar foot to me, who has had success taking up space like this? It seems like most people here who talk about difficult feet have problems on the opposite end of the spectrum. I know this might just come down to me having to spend some money to experiment.

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I’ll play (it just rained to the alpine and opening day has been pushed back). I have a low instep, low volume ankle, and skinny legs, size 28.5 (my feet are 285mm long). A 318mm BSL Raichle/Full Tilt OG boot with Intuition alpine wrap liners is the perfect fit by which I judge all others. The fit of all touring boots suck in comparison, and I’ve owned dozens of them. Combinations that work are the Dynafit Mercury with Intuition Alpine Wrap, Salomon SLab XAlps, with a Intuition MV Pro Tour liner (incredibly comfortable, but just not enough boot for aggressive skiing), and I’m in the process of fine tuning Dynafit Hoji Free 110s - currently using the stock Sidas liners with (L shaped) ankle pads, I found the Intuition Alpine Wraps that I have uncomfortable the mid foot (too much volume with my aggressive arch support footbeds) and less than ideal for stance (I like a more traditional forward lean and Hoji’s are pretty upright) but I will eventually get some version of Intuition Pro Tours whenever I can get to the Intuition outlet in Vancouver - which is by far the best place to get fitted, as they have all the options (multiple volumes of liners and tongues that they can mix and match) and the most experience. The common thread is that these are all variations on a cabrio style boot, which with my low volume anatomy still enables me to fine tune the most important performance variable: the pressure between my instep and heel pocket. As long as my heel is securely located, and I have good even pressure through my instep, I can make a boot work. I know Zero Gs get rave reviews, but I knew they weren’t going to work the moment I tried them on, as they’d require raising the heel to locate my instep, which fucks with my stance (ramp angle and forward lean). liners can only do so much, and a good shell fit is still key to comfort and performance. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by kootenayskier

I’ll play (it just rained to the alpine and opening day has been pushed back). I have a low instep, low volume ankle, and skinny legs, size 28.5 (my feet are 285mm long). A 318mm BSL Raichle/Full Tilt OG boot with Intuition alpine wrap liners is the perfect fit by which I judge all others. The fit of all touring boots suck in comparison, and I’ve owned dozens of them. Combinations that work are the Dynafit Mercury with Intuition Alpine Wrap, Salomon SLab XAlps, with a Intuition MV Pro Tour liner (incredibly comfortable, but just not enough boot for aggressive skiing), and I’m in the process of fine tuning Dynafit Hoji Free 110s - currently using the stock Sidas liners with (L shaped) ankle pads, I found the Intuition Alpine Wraps that I have uncomfortable the mid foot (too much volume with my aggressive arch support footbeds) and less than ideal for stance (I like a more traditional forward lean and Hoji’s are pretty upright) but I will eventually get some version of Intuition Pro Tours whenever I can get to the Intuition outlet in Vancouver - which is by far the best place to get fitted, as they have all the options (multiple volumes of liners and tongues that they can mix and match) and the most experience. The common thread is that these are all variations on a cabrio style boot, which with my low volume anatomy still enables me to fine tune the most important performance variable: the pressure between my instep and heel pocket. As long as my heel is securely located, and I have good even pressure through my instep, I can make a boot work. I know Zero Gs get rave reviews, but I knew they weren’t going to work the moment I tried them on, as they’d require raising the heel to locate my instep, which fucks with my stance (ramp angle and forward lean). liners can only do so much, and a good shell fit is still key to comfort and performance. Good luck.

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What was it about the zero g she’ll that made you think you couldn’t get the instep right?

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Originally Posted by CaliBrit

What was it about the zero g she’ll that made you think you couldn’t get the instep right?

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It’s going to be challenging too have anything sensible to say about a boot I tried on once, with unmolded stock liners, over a year ago, other than to say that I like to try on whatever boots seem even a bit interesting , and that my recollection with the Zero G is an immediate and strong sense of incompatibility. I’m remembering an issue with the instep, but wouldn’t take a bet on the reliability of my memory. Ultimately I have enough trouble finding satisfaction (aka fussy as fuck) with boots that start with a good out of the box fit, and I’m not looking for extra challenge.

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Originally Posted by kootenayskier

It’s going to be challenging too have anything sensible to say about a boot I tried on once, with unmolded stock liners, over a year ago, other than to say that I like to try on whatever boots seem even a bit interesting , and that my recollection with the Zero G is an immediate and strong sense of incompatibility. I’m remembering an issue with the instep, but wouldn’t take a bet on the reliability of my memory. Ultimately I have enough trouble finding satisfaction (aka fussy as fuck) with boots that start with a good out of the box fit, and I’m not looking for extra challenge.

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Ah got it.

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Originally Posted by Danno

Long time listener, first time caller:

I bought some liners in last winter's group buy and did the rice/sock mold method. Don't feel it went perfectly the first time so I rebaked, but don't feel it went right the second time either. So I want to do it a third time. Is that a problem (I believe I have read that it's not the baking that packs liners out, it's the wearing/skiing, so rebaking isn't an issue)?

Also, does the rice in the sock need to be replaced? It's been sitting in the sock since the spring. I feel like I need to get the liner hotter than the first tries, so maybe the rice sock is holding me back.

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Anyone have any answers? It's an Alpine liner, if that matters. To make my post simpler:

1. Are there any issues baking liners a 3rd time?
2. Do I need to replace the rice in the sock or can the rice be reused?
3. Is the rice sock method holding me back in some way?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53me-ICi_f8


Hai ya !

I don't think the rice works well if you have a liner that needs a lot of heating to conform to nooks and crannies in the liner

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Danno

Anyone have any answers? It's an Alpine liner, if that matters. To make my post simpler:

1. Are there any issues baking liners a 3rd time?
2. Do I need to replace the rice in the sock or can the rice be reused?
3. Is the rice sock method holding me back in some way?

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With the alpine liner and other intuitions on the stiff end of the spectrum, heating the liner in the oven will yield a better result than the rice sock every time. That liner is not getting hot enough with just the rice sock to adequately mold the whole liner. This link should get you going.

https://www.powder.com/gear-locker/g...rs-in-an-oven/

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Originally Posted by kootenayskier

I’ll play (it just rained to the alpine and opening day has been pushed back). I have a low instep, low volume ankle, and skinny legs, size 28.5 (my feet are 285mm long). A 318mm BSL Raichle/Full Tilt OG boot with Intuition alpine wrap liners is the perfect fit by which I judge all others. The fit of all touring boots suck in comparison, and I’ve owned dozens of them. Combinations that work are the Dynafit Mercury with Intuition Alpine Wrap, Salomon SLab XAlps, with a Intuition MV Pro Tour liner (incredibly comfortable, but just not enough boot for aggressive skiing), and I’m in the process of fine tuning Dynafit Hoji Free 110s - currently using the stock Sidas liners with (L shaped) ankle pads, I found the Intuition Alpine Wraps that I have uncomfortable the mid foot (too much volume with my aggressive arch support footbeds) and less than ideal for stance (I like a more traditional forward lean and Hoji’s are pretty upright) but I will eventually get some version of Intuition Pro Tours whenever I can get to the Intuition outlet in Vancouver - which is by far the best place to get fitted, as they have all the options (multiple volumes of liners and tongues that they can mix and match) and the most experience. The common thread is that these are all variations on a cabrio style boot, which with my low volume anatomy still enables me to fine tune the most important performance variable: the pressure between my instep and heel pocket. As long as my heel is securely located, and I have good even pressure through my instep, I can make a boot work. I know Zero Gs get rave reviews, but I knew they weren’t going to work the moment I tried them on, as they’d require raising the heel to locate my instep, which fucks with my stance (ramp angle and forward lean). liners can only do so much, and a good shell fit is still key to comfort and performance. Good luck.

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I used to ski full tilt Seth. Some issues with width and instep arose over time. Went to krypton AX and have been stoked. I run the lupo AX 120 with tour wrap for touring and krypton AX 120 with power or pro wrap inbounds. I am one size down 27 FT Seth. Went to 26.5 dalbello. Tour wrap is from green lupo but is just intuition tour wrap. It’s a pretty solid boot for touring. Would I go inbounds hard - no. But if I tour I tour and if resort it’s alpine with pivot.

Maybe try lupo? I’ve been impressed and can drive big skis pretty well like 193 V8. I’m 190 and don’t like to turn ;)


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by NW_SKIER

With the alpine liner and other intuitions on the stiff end of the spectrum, heating the liner in the oven will yield a better result than the rice sock every time. That liner is not getting hot enough with just the rice sock to adequately mold the whole liner. This link should get you going.

https://www.powder.com/gear-locker/g...rs-in-an-oven/

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Good to know. Weird that Intuition doesn't tell you this (I followed their directions); I had no idea that my liner was a stiff one or wouldn't do as well using the rice sock. It's been many years since I cooked liners in an oven, and I thought the rice sock method was an improvement, it sure was easier. But I will do the oven bake tonight.

IIRC, the hardest part was always getting the heated liner into the shell.

Bake in the oven. Put your footbed on your foot then the thin liner sock on over (and any padding etc) put liner on and then put in boot.


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Originally Posted by Danno

Good to know. Weird that Intuition doesn't tell you this (I followed their directions); I had no idea that my liner was a stiff one or wouldn't do as well using the rice sock. It's been many years since I cooked liners in an oven, and I thought the rice sock method was an improvement, it sure was easier. But I will do the oven bake tonight.

IIRC, the hardest part was always getting the heated liner into the shell.

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Temps in that article are too hot, IMO.

One at a time, 230F, 10-13 minutes.

Foot into liner, then into the shell while your assistant spreads it as far open as possible.

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Originally Posted by Norseman

Temps in that article are too hot, IMO.

One at a time, 230F, 10-13 minutes.

Foot into liner, then into the shell while your assistant spreads it as far open as possible.

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Did you catch the part where they turn the oven "off"? Ive done many liners this way. Good results everytime

Likely they are cooking around your mentioned temps though, if I had to guess. By the time you get the door shut and all...

Yeah, back when I oven baked years ago, I recall turning the oven off when the liners went in.

especaily if you have shitty stove in rental house

an oven thermometer is a good idea nieces and nephews

Norse probably has some top secret, exerimental, government owned laser thermometer that backs up to a server bank the size of my garage that he has compiled enginerd level data with though. ;)

I've overbaked liners by having the oven (off) at 300F. Past the point of floppy granny tits, into stinky shrunken troll boot territory. But like our wise Canookie uncle from the narth says, ovens vary.

That's a normal smell from my liners


What liner was it? I've done powerwraps and pro tours. The pro tours I had to pull out way quicker (that's what he said) due to them going off at a much quicker pace.

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Originally Posted by Norseman

I've overbaked liners by having the oven (off) at 300F. Past the point of floppy granny tits, into stinky shrunken troll boot territory. But like our wise Canookie uncle from the narth says, ovens vary.

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Good idea to put liner on thick piece of plywood instead of hot metal oven rack

& cover liner loosely with tin foil nephew !

as you heat/mold one boot at a time make sure to stand in the other boot,
the reason for this is to get the foot position/side to side canting right

But the very best baking method is Tom or Crystal at Intuition

the 13hr drive to Vangroovy was inconvienient/costly

but Hai ya the job was perfect !

Well besides the one fuckup, I've had a handful of successful bakes, thankyouverymuch.

Foil and such, meh, tried em and didn't think the added bake time was worth it. Oven rack didn't damage the liners.

I've worked doing these a little, and have had a few done in shops, and think the homebake method is totally viable and can yield a great fit... if you are familiar with the basics. If a good shop is convenient, then pay the pros.

more control

is more control

i think you definalty need 2 people

I fuckd one up one of those 5$ snow board boot liners back in the day

I got family in vancover so i was going anyhow

also its possible to easily hit intuition on a layover at YVR using the rapid transit

I did a bunch more molds in a connection oven with the liner in the boot. Set oven to 90c stick a meat thermometer where the liner overlaps with the tongue and wait ~20 mins until the liner reaches 65-75c. Way easier than dealing with trying to get a floppy liner the boot.

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I go 200 F until slightly floppy and plump. On a cookie sheet. One at a time for sure.


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Question for those in the know.

How much length stretch upon baking is reasonable to expect?

Ordered Mrs. Slackey a pair of HV Dreamliners off ebay. Size 26.0 for her 26.5 Tecnica Cochise 110s. Trying on the liners only and her big toe is pushing out the end by 2-3MM and they "feel" too short to her.

They have the traditional ultralon soles not the fixed stroble kind so if i bake her with a double toe cap she'll be hating the mold but will i get enough room created? or do I need to find a 27?

Never had this issue myself as the HD race, protours, and pro waps have all fit my foot length well. Here's a pic of side by side with her stock 26.5 liners.
Attachment 352431
Noticeable length difference.

Best shop fit I ever got went like this:
1. Liners into the oven that is made for heating intuitions
2. Tape footbed to sole of foot
3. Put on toecap and pull sheer stocking over it all
4. Shells go in a heater too
5. Pull liner and slip into it
6. Fitter must pull the wrap around as best they can, get best positioning, then tape it right into place.
7. warm shell opens easy and wide, slip in, situate and crank down buckles. Easy then tighter asap.
8. 10-20 minutes then off.
Those were the older type liners, lasted well over 300 days and would still work in a pinch. The boot soles, otoh, are rockered out...

Also, I have a line on some of the older liners if anyone prefers them as I do. And cheaper than new models.

Just baked my liners. Set the oven to 300, turned it off, threw the liner on a cookie sheet and tossed it in for 10 minutes. Seemed to be the right amount of time and heat.

Think it went well, might have fucked up the overlap spot on one boot but if so I think I'll be able to fix with the rice sock. Definitely got a lot more "movement" out of the liners this time, so I'm pretty optimistic.

ETA: just tried them on, FKNA that's a hudge improvement. They felt really good, hopefully they ski just as well.