The 300g Touring Binding Thread

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Originally Posted by frorider

A friend who logs serious miles in the BC prefers Alpinists, and he likes jumping off things.

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I have 2 pairs of ‘em, no issues for my 195 lbs. I agree with the logic that despite selling a metric shit ton of them in Europe & elsewhere, Marker doesn’t seem to have a ton of issues.

My Verticals and Ions don’t feel as smooth / damp as the Alpinists but I’d say my Vipecs feel somewhat similar on refrozen chatter.

Here’s an often overlooked aspect to consider: that Utah avy tragedy last week took out skinners, and the report mentioned locked tech toes as a possible contributor to the deep burials. What’s the lightweight tech binding today that has enough clamping force to allow you to skin up in Ski mode? AFAIK it’s the Alpinist only (would like to hear if there are others). In my experience, more techy skinning on satrugi / hardpack etc requires me to lock em, but typical pow day skinning does not.

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ATK.

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Originally Posted by bean

They’re incredibly weak and I don’t trust them to stop a ski at all.

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That's what I think too. I just put brakes on my Alpinists this season and I can't imagine them actually stopping a ski on anything but a hardpack surface. Considering switching to a leash...but ugh, leashes suck too.

I’ve been using B&D leashes with my Alpinists so I theoretically have break-away functionality in a slide. They work great and I never have to disconnect the leashes during the day, so it feels more secure than brakes to me.

Alpinists have been great for me. No issues to note and I love the flat ramp angle. Have mostly used them in powder, but power transfer on firm groomers is quite good.


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Happy with mine so far, but minimal use. So not to burst anyone’s bubble, but the heel travel on the Alpinists is only 5mm, which is about the same as your typical gap for most non-heel-travel bindings. Most all other tech bindings with heel travel are at about 10mm travel. Lou wrote up an article on this, noting about the Alpinist: “short, rather stiff spring, not sure how much it really does.”
https://www.wildsnow.com/27750/g3-zed-test-heel/

This is where I start to wonder about how “damp” a tech bindings feels is just that- an arbitrary feeling. I would like to see Marker increase travel to 10mm, not sure at all why they didn’t do that in the first place.


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Originally Posted by frorider

A friend who logs serious miles in the BC prefers Alpinists, and he likes jumping off things.

Attachment 362986

I have 2 pairs of ‘em, no issues for my 195 lbs. I agree with the logic that despite selling a metric shit ton of them in Europe & elsewhere, Marker doesn’t seem to have a ton of issues.

My Verticals and Ions don’t feel as smooth / damp as the Alpinists but I’d say my Vipecs feel somewhat similar on refrozen chatter.

Here’s an often overlooked aspect to consider: that Utah avy tragedy last week took out skinners, and the report mentioned locked tech toes as a possible contributor to the deep burials. What’s the lightweight tech binding today that has enough clamping force to allow you to skin up in Ski mode? AFAIK it’s the Alpinist only (would like to hear if there are others). In my experience, more techy skinning on satrugi / hardpack etc requires me to lock em, but typical pow day skinning does not.

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Mtn also.

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

What aspect of the brakes do you not like?

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I guess i was maybe a little too harsh by saying "pieces of shit", but i find the little pull tab fiddly during transitions and tends to get frozen up and difficult especially to get the brakes locked up (i.e. inserting the brake tab into the binding). However, brakes are an annoyance in general for me in tech bindings. But apart from the fiddly aspect, i don't have issues with the stopping power of the brakes any more than i would have, for example, with a burlier binding like the Rad2.

Part of it too is that, as others have said, it's so easy to skin without locking the toe and flipping just mid-riser over the pins that i often forget to unlock the brakes when transitioning to descend. But this is a mental error by me and not the fault of the design.

Regardless, i like how they tour and find them to be less harsh than other bindings. Have been pleasantly surprised and will likely continue to use them on future skis.

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Originally Posted by Skeeze

I’ve been using B&D leashes with my Alpinists so I theoretically have break-away functionality in a slide. They work great and I never have to disconnect the leashes during the day, so it feels more secure than brakes to me.

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This is what i should try, I guess.

Anybody been on the Ski Trab Vario.2? Seems like a potential contender in the Crest category of bindings.

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Originally Posted by North

Anybody been on the Ski Trab Vario.2? Seems like a potential contender in the Crest category of bindings.

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Interested in these as well. They seem to really like them at Skimoco.


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Originally Posted by North

Anybody been on the Ski Trab Vario.2? Seems like a potential contender in the Crest category of bindings.

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Ski trab toes seem so bomber

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Originally Posted by Westcoaster

Ski trab toes seem so bomber

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They look tricky to get into though, esp. on a steep slope

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Originally Posted by Benneke10

They look tricky to get into though, esp. on a steep slope

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No kidding

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Originally Posted by rod9301

No kidding

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Stuff your tails in the snow -> step in -> ski

Does anyone know where I could track down a set of base plates to use my Salomon MTN bindings brakeless? I am planning on installing some quiver killers.

Any insights on if I could just use them without baseplates?

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Originally Posted by Tailwind

Does anyone know where I could track down a set of base plates to use my Salomon MTN bindings brakeless? I am planning on installing some quiver killers.

Any insights on if I could just use them without baseplates?

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You don't need the plates, just make sure you don't have penetration issues from the hardware. It actually lowers the delta of the binding.

Seconded. I installed mine without the baseplates.

Perfect.

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Westcoaster

You don't need the plates, just make sure you don't have penetration issues from the hardware. It actually lowers the delta of the binding.

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Originally Posted by lucknau

Seconded. I installed mine without the baseplates.

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Did you get shorter screws or just use the same ones?

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Originally Posted by thejongiest

Did you get shorter screws or just use the same ones?

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I used the same ones. I put them on some 192cm Lotus 138s. Not sure if they’re thicker than the average ski, but I didn’t have a problem

I had very minor dimpling once, so I've used shorter screws on my last couple MTN mounts. 11.5mm, then you have to grind the head diameter down 1mm.

Just drill & screw 'em in.

If you have dimples in the base, you'll know you should have shortened the screws ;-)

... Thom

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Originally Posted by dub_xion

Interested in these as well. They seem to really like them at Skimoco.


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I have a pair of Trab Vario.2 that are mounted on K2 Wayback 88s for long spring tours.
The plus: They ski exceptionally well downhill. They were the best pin bindings that I have been on until I skied the ATK Moment Voyagers, which are better than them, for comparison the Voyagers are almost no differentiation from Tectons that I have skiied, maybe even better.
They are exceptionally lightweight for killer performance. (The Trabs)

Down: Since I have been used to fiddling into bindings for decades now, I discounted how much this toe system would fuck with my head. And they are a for real nightmare in a steep and firm couloir. I am old but was never doing the Jean-Claude Van Damme splits in my youth, so contorting on these things is a special kind of torture. Flat ground is annoying, but unproblematic. When you are on a slope, your issue is the capability to either touch your nose to your groin while physically holding the lever down to open the toes, or to play one of the most psychotically simple, yet insanely devious of tasks imaginable by pushing with your pole while maintaining three-dimensional balance. Throw in some wind, some sideways snow, and an inability to scrape even a rudimentary platform, and you are about to earn a one-way ticket to the shower scene of the Crying Game.

But they do ski very well.

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Originally Posted by telelebowski

I have a pair of Trab Vario.2 that are mounted on K2 Wayback 88s for long spring tours.
The plus: They ski exceptionally well downhill. They were the best pin bindings that I have been on until I skied the ATK Moment Voyagers, which are better than them, for comparison the Voyagers are almost no differentiation from Tectons that I have skiied, maybe even better.
They are exceptionally lightweight for killer performance. (The Trabs)

Down: Since I have been used to fiddling into bindings for decades now, I discounted how much this toe system would fuck with my head. And they are a for real nightmare in a steep and firm couloir. I am old but was never doing the Jean-Claude Van Damme splits in my youth, so contorting on these things is a special kind of torture. Flat ground is annoying, but unproblematic. When you are on a slope, your issue is the capability to either touch your nose to your groin while physically holding the lever down to open the toes, or to play one of the most psychotically simple, yet insanely devious of tasks imaginable by pushing with your pole while maintaining three-dimensional balance. Throw in some wind, some sideways snow, and an inability to scrape even a rudimentary platform, and you are about to earn a one-way ticket to the shower scene of the Crying Game.

But they do ski very well.

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Very unique, I did not know about this binding. It looks like there is no flat touring mode?

I am loving my Moment Voyagers, but they are probably not as safe as Tectons yeah? AFAIK the only thing unique about the Raider / Voyager is the freeride spacer? There's nothing special about the toe and heel is just lateral + vertical on a spring (same as G3 Ion I believe).

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Originally Posted by thejongiest

... AFAIK the only thing unique about the Raider / Voyager is the freeride spacer? There's nothing special about the toe and heel is just lateral + vertical on a spring (same as G3 Ion I believe).

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That, and bomber construction, although the same can be said for the Solly MTN.

... Thom

I have had about 10 days on my Ski Trab Vario 2 now. About half have been touring, and half have been in the resort (because they were the most suitable setup for the work I was doing, not because that is what I bought them for). For context I am 193cm tall and about 80kg, and I am a fully qualified ski instructor, so I am technically solid, but I am certainly not trying to break any speed records. They are mounted on a pair of Volkl 90eight skis, and I have the 9-11 version.

I will try and cover everything here, but if you have any questions please ask and I will do my best to help.

So one thing I found is that the jig is not as common as most, and I could not find a paper template. In the end I read lots of stuff, and went for it at home. After lots of measuring and remeasuring it all went ok, and my first jig free mount was a success.

Clipping in is not as easy as an alpine binding obviously, but personally I have found it much more simple and intuitive than a standard pin bindings. Part of this is because my boots are very worn at the toe, and my previous pin bindings (ATK Freeraider 14 2.0) were very hard to trigger successfully. I have not had to do it in any situations with serious consequences, but I still think that I personally would take it every time over a standard pin binding, though clearly this is very subjective.

Last season I started using an ATK Trofeo quite a lot, and so I got to really like just flipping over the raiser without rotating the heal piece, and just using that height no matter what, so I was happy to accept the no flat mode of the Ski Trab (when it has the stopper fitted). I know that this might be an issue for some, but I have found it fine, though it is a shame that the only other hight is not a bit higher, so that it covers a bigger range (I also miss the magnetic system on the ATK, which is fantastic). I think that if people do not have a boot with a decent ROM, or if they have mobility issues with their ankles, they might find that the limited riser range could cause problems.

The stopper is certainly a bit weak, but then I have never heard somebody say that the stopper is a strength of these types of bindings. The arms seem to slope back quite a lot, and so they do not have much extension below the base of the ski. They work fine for clipping in when things are very straight forward, but I would be careful relying on them if I was on any kind of slope and the snow was compacted, and I certainly would not expect them to stop a runaway ski in most conditions.

Touring they are great (heal raiser limitations aside), but then they are that great combination of super light and super simple.

Downhill they feel really amazing for the weight. I am unable to compare them like for like with the ATK as they are on a much more solid ski, but based on my experiences I really am blown away by how solid they feel (especially given how terrible some of the snow I have skied on them has been). The first pin binding I had was the Dynafit TLT Radical FT, which was on a pretty solid ski, but the downhill performance of the Ski Trab is so much nicer. A lot of that is the fact that the ramp angle is nowhere near as dramatic, so it feels more balanced, but it also just feels smoother.

Obviously after 10 days I cannot comment on durability. There are a couple of plastic pieces (the toe lock lever, and the brake lock piece) that I would not want to treat carelessly, but then it is a 300g binding so it is not designed to be abused. Yesterday I was out touring with some people, and everything was getting iced up due to the conditions, but with the simple design the Ski Trab was a lot less iced up, and also very simple to clear.

At this stage I am absolutely over the moon with my purchase. The combination of weight, simplicity, and performance is fantastic, and for what I need I would not think of any other option if I needed to buy another pin binding tomorrow. The problem will be for those people who want something for long flats (though just getting some without the stopper would solve this I think), or for anybody with limited ankle mobility who relies of having high risers. As I say I love the clip in, but again that might be a deal breaker for some, but otherwise I think that it is a really fantastic option.