Tammy Wynette cannot be reached for help-Divorce advice

Don’t discount the natural curiosity of youth and their overwhelming desire to hang out with their buddies, no matter what.

I remember cycling through various “ Christian youth” type programs as I was growing up. I was never really so much interested in any of that shit as I was with just hanging out with my regular group of friends who happened to be involved with that shit themselves. In the end, none of it really stuck with me. Or with any of my friends, for that matter.

Except for Chrissie Henderson. That bitch went full fucking religious retard… Never go full fucking religious retard.




fact.

Go to church on day and see what it’s like. Then you’ll at least have some sort of idea with this situation. First impressions will tell you if it’s ok or they are nutjobs.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. My kids went / are going to a private Catholic school and neither myself nor my ex are even close to religious. Hell, my dad was thrown out of Catholic school as a kid for tossing a bucket of water on a nun (he's left handed and let's just say there were some conflicts). Generally all of that stuff has to be strongly re-enforced at home for it to stick, and typically before the age of 13. I think the best approach is to just talk to her about it - ask what sorts of issues are discussed. Are they bringing up Trump / politics? Abortion? etc. etc.

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Originally Posted by Danno

Not sure where to post this, but the Tammy thread seems most appropriate, could use a little advice.

When my kiddo is with her ex, she has been attending a youth church group. I am pretty anti-religious (not to mention a secular jew), so this makes me pretty uncomfortable. But a) I cannot really stop her from going when she's with her mom (and she's 13 so pretty soon it's going to be hard for me to stop her even when she's with me), b) she really likes it so trying to "counter" it is fraught with difficulty, and c) she gets a great sense of "community" from it which is something I can understand, as community is very important to me.

Another problem I have is I don't know what the church is teaching her and what their philosophy is. Are they against gay marriage? Abortion? Where do they fit with my values? Through the youth group they are certainly "marketing" themselves to my daughter, but I don't know what they are trying to instill in her (other than the basics of "jesus christ died for our sins, etc").

How do I deal with this? How do I find out more about the church's teachings? I have googled the hell out of it, to no avail (they have a lot of youtube videos so I could watch them but that sounds like a lot of wasted time). Do I contact the pastor and ask to talk to him? Just say fuck it and let the chips fall where they may? Any suggestions?

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Oof. I got nothing useful. Inexplicably, my middle kid went full evangelical when he was at UVM, of all places, for freshman year. He hasn't deviated. We certainly disagree on a metric fuck ton lot. However, it doesn't change my love for my kid. My wife and I are trying to practice non-alienation.

is there, perhaps, a cute young female evengelical also attending or otherwise nearby UVM that could possibly explain this newfound fascination with the lort? i seem to recall friends suffering from a similar affliction when first finding their way through the tumultuous freshmen dating rut...


fact.

Tell your ex that you're signing daughter up for a Scientology camp?

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Originally Posted by Danno

Not sure where to post this, but the Tammy thread seems most appropriate, could use a little advice.

When my kiddo is with her ex, she has been attending a youth church group. I am pretty anti-religious (not to mention a secular jew), so this makes me pretty uncomfortable. But a) I cannot really stop her from going when she's with her mom (and she's 13 so pretty soon it's going to be hard for me to stop her even when she's with me), b) she really likes it so trying to "counter" it is fraught with difficulty, and c) she gets a great sense of "community" from it which is something I can understand, as community is very important to me.

Another problem I have is I don't know what the church is teaching her and what their philosophy is. Are they against gay marriage? Abortion? Where do they fit with my values? Through the youth group they are certainly "marketing" themselves to my daughter, but I don't know what they are trying to instill in her (other than the basics of "jesus christ died for our sins, etc").

How do I deal with this? How do I find out more about the church's teachings? I have googled the hell out of it, to no avail (they have a lot of youtube videos so I could watch them but that sounds like a lot of wasted time). Do I contact the pastor and ask to talk to him? Just say fuck it and let the chips fall where they may? Any suggestions?

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Just play her a bunch of George Carlin on religion videos.
To wit:

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Originally Posted by Danno

Not sure where to post this, but the Tammy thread seems most appropriate, could use a little advice.

When my kiddo is with her ex, she has been attending a youth church group. I am pretty anti-religious (not to mention a secular jew), so this makes me pretty uncomfortable. But a) I cannot really stop her from going when she's with her mom (and she's 13 so pretty soon it's going to be hard for me to stop her even when she's with me), b) she really likes it so trying to "counter" it is fraught with difficulty, and c) she gets a great sense of "community" from it which is something I can understand, as community is very important to me.

Another problem I have is I don't know what the church is teaching her and what their philosophy is. Are they against gay marriage? Abortion? Where do they fit with my values? Through the youth group they are certainly "marketing" themselves to my daughter, but I don't know what they are trying to instill in her (other than the basics of "jesus christ died for our sins, etc").

How do I deal with this? How do I find out more about the church's teachings? I have googled the hell out of it, to no avail (they have a lot of youtube videos so I could watch them but that sounds like a lot of wasted time). Do I contact the pastor and ask to talk to him? Just say fuck it and let the chips fall where they may? Any suggestions?

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My kids have come and gone with this. I don’t think it’s something you can really fight. Judge it and she’ll keep it from you. Draw a line and you’ll be on the wrong side of it. The best you can hope for is that she trusts you and respects you enough to have a real conversation about it some day, and anything not on that path is counterproductive. You’ve had a chance to have input into this, that time was in the past, and you aren’t the only voice in the room. And you shouldn’t be.

If you figure out something better I want to hear about it though.

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Originally Posted by Mustonen

If you figure out something better I want to hear about it though.

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I just ordered the secret parenting manual, it has all the answers. But it's hard to find, it's out of print.

Maybe just talking with her about what she likes about it and how it’s going for her? Take an interest and keep the communication flowing.

I don’t have kids so take my advice for what it’s worth.

#science

dude nope out on this shit
you sound like the bad x wife right now

seriously

dont' be thefuck ups my parents were let your daughter be herself the more you fuk with her the more she will rebel and thats not good

I know organized religion is sounds fucked and looks fucked
but let her explore and find her people
she is building relationships with friends and they may be "church" friends who cares
cultivating meaningful relastioships with others weather in church the football field or skiing is the key to success in life
somethign we are all lacking everywhere
christianity has lots to offer and is a very positive thing take what you want and leave the rest at the door
we are just seeing the ugly dog shit side right now in the media
I pray that she picks up on the positive awesome side of it

serioulsly walk away and let her find herself this could be a good thing
leave it be she's a kid

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Originally Posted by Buzzworthy

Go to church on day and see what it’s like. Then you’ll at least have some sort of idea with this situation. First impressions will tell you if it’s ok or they are nutjobs.

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This ^^^

Thanks to those that offered thoughtful advice.

Fred, that was very helpful.

I'm fond of saying I love Jesus .
It's Christians I can't stand?

“ I like your Christ; I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ”
—Mohandas Ghandi

"Ahh, Jesus, I like him very much, but He no help with curveball." Pedro Cerrano

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Originally Posted by Danno

Thanks to those that offered thoughtful advice.

Fred, that was very helpful.

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I of course don’t agree with Fred totally

I would talk about the history of Judaism and the conduct of the catholic and Protestant church regarding Judaism

I would also give her a copy of Karen Armstrong’s history of god

I don’t think having lunch with the sky pilot is a bad idea or take her to a service to check it out


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Fred Christianity does not have a lot to offer unless you consider community

You don’t need an archaic myth that the Roman’s took over to learn to love thy neighbor and do good works

Like any organized power structure religion has created just as much evil as good and teaching that to a kid is important - even a 13 year old

Some where some time Danno’s daughter is going to be exposed to the phrase “Christ killer” and you narrow point of view on religion and culture would be a disservice to the young woman

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https://youtu.be/27RtJp-rhHk?si=8BhBvg7hqgnbw4py

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Originally Posted by DBdude

Fred Christianity does not have a lot to offer unless you consider community


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Other than that how did you enjoy the play Mrs. Lincoln?

I think the community part is Fred's point. Some kids have trouble finding community. If when they do, their parents go vegan cross-fitter on them, it is the parent that is set aside not the community.

For sure, point out the power imbalances at play, warn them of the dangers of institutionalized patriarchy - but preaching will just result in being tuned out.

As for religion creating evil, that is another discussion all together, but I tend to believe that the evil always existed (and will always exist) and religion - just like any other organization of humans- gave it a place to express itself.

However, despite my distrust of any organized belief system - like cross-fit- I have to admit that many well grounded, intelligent folks find a benefit to practicing.

If religion is good or bad isn't the question though is it. The question seems to be should a child be exposed to it? To which I say, just like drugs, exposure is going to happen and it would be better if the exposure were in a controlled environment. So maybe Danno can get a bit more info on the group/church in question. Do some due diligence etc. to decide if he is comfortable with this particular community?

So, to answer Danno's question with my completely uninformed, shoot from the hip thought would be, if after speaking to daughter about what she likes and what she learns and showing support - are there any parent involved youth group activities, would she be ok of experiencing those with him? Put on a fake smile if you have to in order to not blow your cover of course and see what it is about first hand.

As an aside, my boy scout troop was run out of the local LDS church. I never took up Mormonism but I can still kick ass at the campfire water boiling challenge. And, I have friends that I keep in touch with today from that group and church that have made many positive impacts on my life. Not the same I know, but somewhat apt.

I know the community thing is what he means - my point was to consider the other things involved

I am sure his x wife is not taking their daughter to a seventh day Adventist or some other crazy Protestant sect

If she is I would stop it


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I’m not sure one religious sect is more crazy than any other. It’s all about local groups. I have some friends who are 7th day and they’re not all hardcore about it. I didn’t even know that about them for years. My daughter is good friends with their kids. It’s fine.

The crux of this issue is understanding your daughter has agency and will come to her own beliefs, whether you agree with them or not. Like with anything else, set the right example for her and in all likelihood things will turn out fine. Try and impose your belief structure and she will rebel. Let her try this on and if problems arise down the road tackle them then, but just going to church or joining a youth group is in and of itself completely harmless.

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Originally Posted by AdironRider

The crux of this issue is understanding your daughter has agency and will come to her own beliefs, whether you agree with them or not. Like with anything else, set the right example for her and in all likelihood things will turn out fine. Try and impose your belief structure and she will rebel. Let her try this on and if problems arise down the road tackle them then, but just going to church or joining a youth group is in and of itself completely harmless.

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What a world we live in!
110% agree with AR here.

She’s going to figure it out. You’re in a new world of parenting now. Watching her make great decisions, and a few mistakes along the way, with minimal interference and maximum support and you’ve done a job well done. It’s easy to keep them alive when they’re in diapers. It’s quite a bit more difficult watching them grow into their own adulthood and taking that step back to let them make the choices they decide on.