Zwift, TR, Sufferfest etc

As tempting as it is to just start riding willy nilly, it’s best to start knocking off route badges and achievements, up your XP, buy fast frames and wheels and whatnot. Make sure you start working towards the Tron. Welcome aboard, new max Zwift, just shy of 50,000 people riding from all over the world yesterday morning.

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Originally Posted by dan_pdx

Thanks again everyone for the tech support! I got most of the bugs worked out with my smart trainer last night and had enough time to do Zwift's 4-mile onboarding ride.

When I got pissy when someone passed me during my cool down, I realized "Hey, I could get into this!" Still don't have my rear derailleur quite dialed in, and couldn't pair my heart rate monitor in the garage even though it worked fine inside the house, but I'm basically there. I'll take some time to figure things out a little more and then jump in the shark tank with you guys :-)

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I found the learning curve around zwift functioning and options fairly steep (in the apps) - so ask questions here as you get going

Don't get all this obsession over weight from those who aren't racing at the pro level. I would say that someone just getting into cycling who isn't significantly overweight can actually make power gains that are beneficial faster than they can lose weight. The more overweight you are the easier it is to just lose weight from riding. But after a few years and if you are already at a reasonably healthy weight then comes the choice on whether or not you want to have fun at life or excel at the Saturday morning world championships. If the latter is more fun then go for it.

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Originally Posted by buttahflake

As tempting as it is to just start riding willy nilly, it’s best to start knocking off route badges and achievements, up your XP, buy fast frames and wheels and whatnot. Make sure you start working towards the Tron. Welcome aboard, new max Zwift, just shy of 50,000 people riding from all over the world yesterday morning.

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I did not heed this advice... I jumped in the Dee Hubs Shark Tank with bone stock stuff. You mean to tell me these other dudes have "faster" virtual equipment? Oy vey. :D

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Originally Posted by bennymac

I found the learning curve around zwift functioning and options fairly steep (in the apps) - so ask questions here as you get going

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I am also still kinda confused on the various functions of Zwift... picking a direction at intersections, doing a U turn, interacting with other rides, etc. It's steep, but not unsurmountable. I might have questions.

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Originally Posted by ridinshockgun

Don't get all this obsession over weight from those who aren't racing at the pro level.

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Because I'm fat, drunk, and stupid... and that's no way to go through life, son.

Having a keyboard within reach is probably the best option for controls in zwift but the companion app also has them all. I change views with the number pad, mostly to look back (push 6, 1 for the default view). Hitting space bar is easier than activating a powerup in from the phone app. People even set up little remotes on their handlebars to do those things.

Once you've ridden around in watopia for awhile you figure out the map and can actually navigate to where you want to go, but the best way to ride is to pick a route beforehand. Completing a route gets you double the XP of just riding that same distance and it will actually bring you somewhere and make you ride a set distance/time. Even when I'm just cruising around before a meetup or race or something I pick a short one i haven't done, especially since it's annoying to collect those like 5-6km badges on their own because you have to quit the game and restart to do another one.

I've started using https://zwifthub.com/ to keep track of my routes/badges. Sign up and then you can just click on the little trophy to say you've done it. Then on the left when you want to do a ride, sort by "today's routes" and "only not achieved routes" and distance and elevation or whatever.

^Helpful advice ^

I didn’t know about the space at power up - that’s a good one vs trying to hit the power up button on the companion app.

I too find it helpful (as a total jong) to have a flat surface to the side of the bike on which I can have my keyboard/trackpad, fan remote, extra towel/water etc. I put an iPad there with the route elevation profile on the screen if I’ve not done that route before. I bought a music stand (cheap, adjustable height, adjustable legs, top lays flat) for this.

I too find zwifthub website helpful for looking at routes and marking which ones I’ve done - also easy to see what routes are available that day.

Beginners (like me) - be aware that most routes have a “lead in” distance you have to ride before the true “route” starts. This info is easily viewable on zwifthub’s interface. You have to ride the lead in and then the whole route in order to get the “badge” for that route. You can see what badges you have officially earned via the menu in the main Zwift app (not the companion app). Don’t just look at the route distance and then ride that distance and assume you are done - the route may have a 2km lead in for example.

There are also badges for other accomplishments like “ride 7 days in a row” or “ride 40km in one ride” etc.

As you ride in Zwift you earn experience points (XP) and drops (think of this like money) simultaneously. XP accumulation is what moves you up through the levels (I’m at level 11 for example) and drops are what you can use to buy better bike frames and wheels. Some frames and wheels can shave a couple seconds per hour. Some frames/wheels are more aero for flat/rolling courses, some are lighter for climbing, and some are middle of the road Jack of all trades. A second shaved off an hour ride is probably a big deal to someone trying to win the final sprint but for noobs like me it’s not likely gonna make any significant difference in the experience.

You get XP for distance, elevation, collecting badges, other accomplishments etc.

You get drops also when covering distance but you have to be pedaling (not coasting) for them to accumulate. When someone gives you a “ride on!” while you are pedaling the rate at which you accumulate drops goes up temporarily. If you finish a ride on top of a mountain you can coast back down and get easy XP for that additional distance - if the hill is steep enough you don’t even have to stay on your bike (you could be stretching) but if you also want drops you have to be pedaling (even just slowly)

But yeah collecting route badges is a great way to get introduced to zwift. If you go to the “zwift insider” website (another great resource) you can find a printable list of all the routes organized by length/difficulty. Start ticking off some of the shorter ones and you’ll quickly get the hang of things.

More experienced zwifters can chime in with corrections and better info.

Edit: you’ll hear about the “Everest challenge” - this is a bit confusing. As best I can tell these are bigger long term challenges that kinda run in the background all the time you are riding.

To choose/view what challenge you are currently working on you go into the menu on the main Zwift app. When that menu pops up you will see a cartoon photo in the middle right of the menu. Click on this and it will open up a sub menu showing you the challenges available.

As a beginner it will likely offer Everest (climbing challenge) or California (distance challenge). You pick one and then it will stay on that challenge unless you change it. Most people choose Everest and leave it there - they do this because if you climb an insane amount over time (much more than just the Everest challenge) you unlock the “tron bike” which is that colorful glowing bike you see some riders using. As far as equipment goes it’s one of the best options if you’re looking to shave those precious seconds off your performance. Plus it’s kind of a badge of honor in the zwift world.

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Originally Posted by Full Trucker

I am also still kinda confused on the various functions of Zwift... picking a direction at intersections...

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Jamal hit this too, but the easiest way to navigate is to pick a route before you ride and just don't click anything when Zwift offers you an option to go a different direction. Because when Zwift does offers you a choice to go a different direction it's really them asking "do you want to leave the route you chose". Which can be fine if you want to go elsewhere, but going off route costs you the badge + XP you would have gotten for finishing the route you chose to ride.

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Originally Posted by buttahflake

My best time up the Alpe is 59:23, at 5’10”, 145 pounds, 55 years old. Carp is a specimen, I realize that, but he’s a giant compared to me. If we were to ride the real Alpe du Huez, I feel like there is no way he could stay on my wheel. One of my riding buddies is a beast, 6’1” 180 pounds, he punishes me on the flats and rolling terrain. 1-5 minute efforts on anything less than 5%, he kills me. But on steeper Cat 3 climbs or the gnarly test climb in the area a brutal Cat 2 climb which is 2.2 miles at 9%, I fly away from him. How am I getting smoked on Zwift by these linebackers?!?!

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I heard willy nilly wants to stomp your skinny ass

Thanks for all the info on navigating Zwift, this is helpful. I'm into video games, so all the XP and achievements definitely incentivize me. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions come up, I'll bring 'em here.

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Originally Posted by dan_pdx

Thanks for all the info on navigating Zwift, this is helpful. I'm into video games, so all the XP and achievements definitely incentivize me. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions come up, I'll bring 'em here.

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Once you get going you can look at the zwift insider article on “pace partners” - this is a legit way to temporarily increase your rate of drop accumulation while simultaneously getting exercise and practicing riding/drafting in a group (it’s not a perfect mimicking of outdoor pack riding but decent enough)

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Originally Posted by ridinshockgun

Don't get all this obsession over weight from those who aren't racing at the pro level. I would say that someone just getting into cycling who isn't significantly overweight can actually make power gains that are beneficial faster than they can lose weight. The more overweight you are the easier it is to just lose weight from riding. But after a few years and if you are already at a reasonably healthy weight then comes the choice on whether or not you want to have fun at life or excel at the Saturday morning world championships. If the latter is more fun then go for it.

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So in 10 months of Zwifting I have dropped 10kg. I have also gained strength and muscle endurance. BUT Zwift is based on w/kg. So when the Zwift peloton is moving at 2.8 w/kg, the old 96kg me needed to put out 270 watts to sustain 2.8w/kg, where as the new 86kg me only needs to put out 240 watts to maintain the group pace of 2.8w/kg.
I think weight has a lot to do with the performance level in this Zwift thread.

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Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs

So in 10 months of Zwifting I have dropped 10kg. I have also gained strength and muscle endurance. BUT Zwift is based on w/kg. So when the Zwift peloton is moving at 2.8 w/kg, the old 96kg me needed to put out 270 watts to sustain 2.8w/kg, where as the new 86kg me only needs to put out 240 watts to maintain the group pace of 2.8w/kg.
I think weight has a lot to do with the performance level in this Zwift thread.

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It ain't just zwift and it's why every pro looks like Calista Flockhart. This is definitely worth a watch.

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Originally Posted by huckbucket

It ain't just zwift and it's why every pro looks like Calista Flockhart. This is definitely worth a watch.

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“It’s a simple matter of weight ratios”

Very true. Also true that my racing days are over. These days I want to have fun, and I do enough things (skiing, soccer, mtn biking, basketball) that I have to worry more about resilience than biking speed. I lift, and I look like a cornerback, but it allows to me to take a lot of abuse and hits in contact sports with less injury risk. Plus it makes a lot of aches and pains go away. But it keeps me 15-20 lbs heavier than I’d try to be if I was simply racing bikes.

I’ve also noticed that I can only stay really, really lean while still staying strong for maybe a couple months. Then I start to break down and I have to eat more again. So I flux maybe 5lbs up and down and I carry a lot of extra muscle weight.

However, for my lifestyle, it’s totally worth it.

Out for tonight’s ride, gotta go make a site visit for work.

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Originally Posted by EWG

“It’s a simple matter of weight ratios”

Very true. Also true that my racing days are over. These days I want to have fun, and I do enough things (skiing, soccer, mtn biking, basketball) that I have to worry more about resilience than biking speed. I lift, and I look like a cornerback, but it allows to me to take a lot of abuse and hits in contact sports with less injury risk. Plus it makes a lot of aches and pains go away. But it keeps me 15-20 lbs heavier than I’d try to be if I was simply racing bikes.

I’ve also noticed that I can only stay really, really lean while still staying strong for maybe a couple months. Then I start to break down and I have to eat more again. So I flux maybe 5lbs up and down and I carry a lot of extra muscle weight.

However, for my lifestyle, it’s totally worth it.

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Yeah man .... it's a balance. Health over performance is where we all are today unless performance is paying the bills.

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Originally Posted by EWG

“It’s a simple matter of weight ratios”

Very true. Also true that my racing days are over. These days I want to have fun, and I do enough things (skiing, soccer, mtn biking, basketball) that I have to worry more about resilience than biking speed. I lift, and I look like a cornerback, but it allows to me to take a lot of abuse and hits in contact sports with less injury risk. Plus it makes a lot of aches and pains go away. But it keeps me 15-20 lbs heavier than I’d try to be if I was simply racing bikes.

I’ve also noticed that I can only stay really, really lean while still staying strong for maybe a couple months. Then I start to break down and I have to eat more again. So I flux maybe 5lbs up and down and I carry a lot of extra muscle weight.

However, for my lifestyle, it’s totally worth it.

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I completely understand the math and don't need an explanation on that.

This is kind of what I was getting at and why I mentioned that for some, especially if you're 20 lbs overweight, weight loss is easy and needed and when just getting into training or riding power gains happen pretty quickly as well. This is why I differentiated between someone who may be overweight vs someone who is at a pretty healthy weight already. At some point these numbers start to converge and the effort involved to lose 5 lbs, sustain that weight loss, and still put out the same power becomes more and more difficult. As in, if you're lean and strong but carry a bit of upper body muscle it may not necessarily be best for your mental and physical health to try to look like a pro tour rider so you can beat your group ride to the top of the climb or win more zwift races.

If you're just a naturally lean person and just getting into riding and/or training you can probably realize more gains by just training and getting stronger vs losing 2-3 lbs and seriously degrading your quality of life to do so.

I just see so much "lose weight, lose weight you gotta lose more weight" when it comes to cycling when most of us are doing it because it is fun and it makes our life more enjoyable. So is it really making your life more enjoyable to drop that extra 5 lbs :)

if you really want an eating disorder become a bike racing, rock climber.

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Originally Posted by ridinshockgun

This is kind of what I was getting at and why I mentioned that for some, especially if you're 20 lbs overweight, weight loss is easy and needed and when just getting into training or riding power gains happen pretty quickly as well. This is why I differentiated between someone who may be overweight vs someone who is at a pretty healthy weight already. At some point these numbers start to converge and the effort involved to lose 5 lbs, sustain that weight loss, and still put out the same power becomes more and more difficult. As in, if you're lean and strong but carry a bit of upper body muscle it may not necessarily be best for your mental and physical health to try to look like a pro tour rider so you can beat your group ride to the top of the climb or win more zwift races.

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There's an easy fix for the Zwift races part and it's in your user profile, dieting is maybe the easiest Zwift Power-up there is ;)

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Originally Posted by wendigo

if you really want an eating disorder become a bike racing, rock climber.

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...wrestler, gymnast, runner, etc. Or you could become a swimmer - no calorie issues there. You will, however, be completely insane because you are in a pain filled sensory deprivation tank 3 hours each day...

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Originally Posted by ridinshockgun

I completely understand the math and don't need an explanation on that.

This is kind of what I was getting at and why I mentioned that for some, especially if you're 20 lbs overweight, weight loss is easy and needed and when just getting into training or riding power gains happen pretty quickly as well. This is why I differentiated between someone who may be overweight vs someone who is at a pretty healthy weight already. At some point these numbers start to converge and the effort involved to lose 5 lbs, sustain that weight loss, and still put out the same power becomes more and more difficult. As in, if you're lean and strong but carry a bit of upper body muscle it may not necessarily be best for your mental and physical health to try to look like a pro tour rider so you can beat your group ride to the top of the climb or win more zwift races.

If you're just a naturally lean person and just getting into riding and/or training you can probably realize more gains by just training and getting stronger vs losing 2-3 lbs and seriously degrading your quality of life to do so.

I just see so much "lose weight, lose weight you gotta lose more weight" when it comes to cycling when most of us are doing it because it is fun and it makes our life more enjoyable. So is it really making your life more enjoyable to drop that extra 5 lbs :)

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Yeah, agreed. For various reasons my world/social circle is in part made up of bikers and triathletes that are competing at the highest levels in the sport so it's a constant "nutrition" pressure undertone talking with any of them. It's pretty fucked up frankly. But for them, the math is simple = maintain the same power output and take off 1 kg and you climb x second faster. I guess if you are going to sacrifice every spare minute of your life to go faster on a bike, getting rid of an extra 3kg is a pretty minor sacrifice.

But that ain't me. To the extent it ever was, it's not anymore. So I just smile and nod and pat them on the back - but not hard. Don't wanna break someone's rib.

I'm gonna stick with the donuts and beer as reward for the hard work!

You guys on at 4pm MTN Time or 6 today? My invite says 2pm here AK time, still at work...

2 ak time on thurs. yeah tough one to pull off

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Originally Posted by wendigo

2 ak time on thurs. yeah tough one to pull off

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Whatever. He's got 20 hours of daylight. Plenty of other times during the day to get stuff done.

ha right now there is ~7 hrs of light a day

i would join the ride but am heading out for a skate ski in the daylight.

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Originally Posted by wendigo

ha right now there is ~7 hrs of light a day

i would join the ride but am heading out for a skate ski in the daylight.

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Oh shit, right. I'm an idiot.

Then what the hell is the problem? Gets dark for AK at 1:30 anyway so it's either zwift with us or drink...

I come from skinny stock, ain’t no weakling! I can do pull-ups for days. Skied today for the first time this year, so good right now, that and I did TdZ Sand and Sequoias yesterday at just under full gas, I’m cooked. See y’all in a bit.

Small fun group today, some new playas!
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Had my first "real" ride last night and rode for just short of an hour, about 45 minutes of which was dueling with someone who seemed pretty close to my level of fitness (i.e., low). It's pretty fun! Doesn't match riding outside, but I would never get this density of people to ride with outside.

Following suggestions from folks here, I selected a route to ride, and didn't make any changes at intersections, but it was totally unclear to me how I was progressing along the route - I didn't seem to get any "distance remaining in route" display or anything like that, just a "total mileage covered on this ride" display. How is that information displayed?

Also, the graphics are pretty heinous using a 10-year-old laptop, and after looking at video of Zwift running good framerates at 1080p, I have to say that would be a nice step up. I'll give it awhile, but might consider seeing if one of the other PCs around here can do better.

Question on sound: the only sound effects I got was rumbling when I went over wooden bridges, and a sound effect for thumbs ups. Other than that, Watopia was silent. What's that all about? Is that also a result of having a crappy computer? Is there no background music or anything?

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Originally Posted by buttahflake

Small fun group today, some new playas!
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SORRY boys, I got help up on the ski hill. My perfect attendance record just went out the window....

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Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs

SORRY boys, I got help up on the ski hill. My perfect attendance record just went out the window....

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Roll call from tonight. Who was there?

Buttahflake
ticketchecker
EWG

And two new fellas that I don't know TGR names for. I assume one was Full Trucker. The other I'm not sure. Was it carpathlan?

I was the yo-yo'ing guy - need to sort out my power lag issue. Hope it wasn't too annoying for others.

Was a good workout for me - these rides force me to put out a lot more effort that I would do just goofing around on random routes.

Carp goes up the Alp in half the time it takes me. I think the Innsbruck hill would be a speed bump to him :)

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Originally Posted by bennymac

I was the yo-yo'ing guy - need to sort out my power lag issue. Hope it wasn't too annoying for others.

Was a good workout for me - these rides force me to put out a lot more effort that I would do just goofing around on random routes.

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Excellent.

So buttahflake, tickerchecker, EWG, Full Trucker and Benny Mac. Full on Deadhead reunion.

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Originally Posted by EWG

Roll call from tonight. Who was there?

Buttahflake
ticketchecker
EWG

And two new fellas that I don't know TGR names for. I assume one was Full Trucker. The other I'm not sure. Was it carpathlan?

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Yes, F. Trucker == Full Trucker. All black kit save the shoes, giant beard. Also, I unlocked black shoes tonight, so that's rad. I think the fella you're missing on your list was bennymac... he was the one with connectivity issues in the jersey that had some stripes.

buttahflake was the pacesetter on the Tron bike, no?

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Yes, I was the de facto Dee Hubbs this evening!

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Originally Posted by buttahflake

Yes, I was the de facto Dee Hubbs this evening!

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The 4 yo I'm teaching to ski on Thursdays wanted to ski until the lifts closed. I can't argue with that!

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Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs

The 4 yo I'm teaching to ski on Thursdays wanted to ski until the lifts closed. I can't argue with that!

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Legit!

Totally legit!

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Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs

You skinny fucks.
I started Zwift last March and weighed in at 96kg - 211 lbs.
I’m 45yo and haven’t been under 200lbs since I was maybe 30?
Because of Zwift I’m now currently sub 86 -189lbs.
I’ve lost 10kg - 22lbs from a stupid bike/computer game.
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What happened in August?!?!

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Originally Posted by Full Trucker

I've been checking out different apps with my KICKR Snap for the last month or so, and yesterday got Zwift going. Did the intro ride, and I can see where this could be fun. The other apps I've tried (Rouvy and BKOOL) were good/decent., but Zwift seems to control the trainer a bit mo'bettah, and the graphics are way better looking that the videos of the other two apps. This probably has to do with my 10-11 year old MacBook more than anything, but it's nice that Zwift works on some janky old tech.

Shot of the "pain cave" which is really just my basement workshop. Bikes are hanging out of frame to the right, from the wall opposite the skis.

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2,394 extra points for the Save Ferris sticker.

Now I need to get me one of those black jerseys... looks sharp.

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Originally Posted by EWG

What happened in August?!?!

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HA! I worked 532hrs in 42 days, with on site meals, and in a hotel.
I have already purchased a bike to leave at that job for next year.