My brand new pair of 192's have almost no camber
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My brand new pair of 192's have almost no camber
Those look like Freerides, not protests.
Spoke with Keith. They are protests. Not sure what's up with them.
I sold all my Protests because of things like that. One day I loved them, others I hated them. I started to see over time the camber profiles were drastically different day to day. I skied my Protests every day in Japan for 2 weeks, they started out with 1cm of camber (base to base) and after the trip they were full reverse. I went from these are alright to these are amazing. Got home and they never felt good again. Same with the Quixotes, took them to Steamboat for a trip, skied pow for 5 days straight, they were full reverse after the trip. Took them back to Jackson, didn’t ski them for a few days and they sucked, camber was back.
Keith does really cool skis, but for me it’s not worth it any more to not know what I was getting on every day. I brought this up to him, he said it was use/improper storage/abuse, and I dropped it. Clearly he didn’t want to have the discussion and whatever. Some people love his stuff, some don’t. I switched to big ski manufacturers and am fairly happy. Yeah the same thing happens over time to my Blizzards/Kaestle/K2s, but not as drastically.
Skis do die, I get about 80-100 days out of a pair of Blizzards. Kastle MX98s I get 300. They do change. But the QA wasn’t there for me so I moved on. If you are nervous about that from Protests, get Pon2oons or ski something narrower. Yeah Uber fats are fun, but you really don’t need them 99.999% of the time. I only grab the Pon2oons if it’s >18in of upside down pow. Other then that it’s something ~115mm wide.
I also don’t (and never will) care enough to document how a ski changes over time to show someone like Keith how their ski changes. He makes beautiful skis and probably 75% of the skis made won’t be skied has hard as I pushed mine. I’m a large person, and I skied a lot the past 7 years.
I’m also in a grumpy mood today, so take that into account.
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Thats strange . My og gpo's have a few hindred days on them and camber is still dead on stock. My praxis w the most days. My protests were 3mm measured
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Similar boat here, I've got 4.5 or 5 flex GPOs that I haven't noticed any changes to. I got those in October 2013 and have hundreds of days on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by grinch
Interesting. I'm curious if the layup has something to do with this? Maybe unbalanced on the top and bottom? What were yours?Quote:
Originally Posted by skibrd
Skied my protests last 2 days in a row.
These skis still rule.
You will still have to pry them from my cold dead hands.
That is all
Everything was enduro w/ carbon 4 flex. The Super Freerides and Protests were veneer top sheets. The Quixotes were the stock top sheet.Quote:
Originally Posted by abraham
I didn’t notice as much of a change in how they skied with the Super Freerides day to day. More of my issues with them was tune and mounting point.
The Quixotes and Protests just changed so much. They were Dr Jekle and Mr Hyde skis. I sort of said the same thing in the old Quixote thread. 90% if they time they were amazing, 10% of the time WTF. Sort of how Tabke can sometimes crush everyone on the tour, it’s not even close, then he takes a weird ass fall and everyone is like wtf.
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Anyone find the touring equivalent of the protest? Similar shape, a little less weight, etc I always enjoy ski touring on mine but it’s hands down my heaviest set up. Just curious to hear people’s experience with similar style ski. I ski my wife’s BMT122 and gives me a similar feel
^Uuuhh yeah, the wootest was made for exactly that. Check praxis website and extensive threads on it here
FWIW I have a pair and while they are similar, they don’t ski quite the same
skibrd, that sounds bizarre. You say you sold ‘all’ your Protests right? The symptoms you described were for one pair of Protests?
I’ve owned or currently ski GPOs, Quixotes, Ullrs, 9D8s, Backcountrys…no decamber issues. 190 lbs, kinda hard on skis so I tend toward Heads and the metal lam Volkls.
My touring equivalent of the protest is a protest in the ultralight layup. ~1975g so pretty lightweight for a ski that size.Quote:
Originally Posted by kevino
I had a pair of the wootest and no, they didn’t ski like a protest. Just floating the question because you don’t know if you don’t ask.Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleT
What length is that for? Skiing attributes pretty similar?Quote:
Originally Posted by GoSlowGoFar
187, and I haven’t been on a stock version so I can’t comment on that. I would guess that it skis similarly but is less damp due to the weight savings, I’m sure there’s other folks on here that have been on both.Quote:
Originally Posted by kevino
Ive got both a 192 protest and 187 wootest. Protest is pretty great. Wootest less so. Partially ive decided i want my ski in the woo's quiver slot to be better in firmish snow. But that's just me.
But you know I probably should have gotten both skis in the longer length. I'm good with the protest in 192. Woo wasn't available in a similar size.
My solution was just light skins and light bindings (SSL 2.0, I might have bought them from you?) on a 196 Protest. Will still weigh less than my 192cm Praxis Yetis with Comforts/Verticals which was once my primary touring set up. We had all that cold smoke pow recently in the Selkirks/Cabinets and it pushed me for a superfat touring ski, now that I mounted them it probably won't happen again for 3 years. Seriously though, breaking trail in `18-36" of cold smoke demands a fat ski.Quote:
Originally Posted by kevino
It happened on my Protests, Super Freerides, and Quixotes. Didn’t keep the other pair (or two?) around long enough to see cause I didn’t like them.Quote:
Originally Posted by frorider
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Skied 2’ of upside down pow friday on my 192 4 flex protesteses. Yup, still slaying like always. [emoji1591]
My 192 4 flex killed in LCC many times the past few weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2FUNKY
Attachment 400385
Upside down and wind affected snow is no match for protest. Of course it excels in pow but in crap snow made me a hero
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They are so good.
Attachment 404505
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I found a great local deal on some 192 Protests that I definitely don’t need but Ive wanted a pair of these forever. They’re stock 3 flex though and I’m wondering if that is a dealbreaker since a lot of people seem to say go 4. 190 Bibbys are currently my cold dead hands pow ski and I also have a pair of 4 flex MVP 108s that I like a lot, so I definitely like skis on the stiffer side but nothing insane. These would be a deep day resort ski in CO (yeah I know it doesn’t snow here anymore) so I’d want them to be able to hang throughout the day when things get tracked out
Should I hold out for a 4 flex pair to pop up or are people happy with stock flex? As said I totally don’t need them so not feeling rushed but it’s a good deal and local
How heavy are you? I also super duper love the 190 Bibby, and own (and also love) 192 Flex 3 Protests. But in really heavy chop, the Protests do get knocked around significantly more. I'll often ski the Protests until lunch and then swap to the Bibbys on a PNW pow day for that reason. I'm 6', 165lb.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth
I’m 6’2 180lb. The snow is much lighter here than the PNW and we don’t really get much 3D snow, but our storms are smaller so you’re often navigating some bumps underneath the freshQuote:
Originally Posted by HAB
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what size is your boot, Wes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth
I have 192 #4 Protests you can take for a spin, IF IT EVER SNOWS AGAIN anyway. Just let me know.
For an area with lower water content snow, the 3 would be fine. Heavier snow pack is where the 4 shines in chop over the 3. I also prefer how the 4 skis pow over the 3. More knife like, less flex makes the ski faster through the turn and out of the turn. These shapes lend themselves to a stiffer flex profile.
Pretty sure I just muddied the water even more for ya. Lol
Yeah, that's why I mentioned it. I think you could go either way, but I might lean towards a Flex 4 if you're trying to ski them all day inbounds. I'm happy making a swap, and with that approach the 3 works really well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth
Thanks for the thoughts. Sounds like for my skiing style and intended use I should hold out for a pair of 4 flex. I’m not really interested in swapping skis mid day - knowing myself I’ll just end up obsessing over it and it’ll detract from my skiing
N1CK I’d gladly take you up on that if it ever snows again. I’m a 316 bsl
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I’m 200 but ski light Utah pow. Flex 3 187 & 192 is perfect for me and very stable. But can’t speak to heavier snow
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Weighing in on Wes’s question about Protest stiffness, I think some of the discussion about Protests in chop needs to account for waist width and float too. It’s a lot of surface area to ask to blast through stuff. Stiffness matters too of course, but the ski’s shape/natural tendency is to float, and much of the float comes from the mid section of the ski which can lead to a comparatively rough/active ride in chop compared to a narrower/differently shaped ski. Bibbys are pretty damn good in chop and ok in pow. Protests are many levels better in pow and ok in chop. Pick your poison for the conditions and enjoy! That said, everyone should try a Protest at some point - they really are on a different level than so many skis in pow.
What flex in the Protest would be comparable to the Bibby/Wildcat? 3, 3+, or 4?
3 is quite a bit softer than my Bibbys, especially through the middle of the ski. I haven't fondled a 4 so I don't know how close those are.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdadour
Thats what I figured. Im 6 ft 175 lbs, and ski the bibby in the 190. Want to get something more pow oriented than the Bibby, and the Chipotle Bananas didnt cut it, so now I am Protest curious. Most of my skis are on the stiffer end of the spectrum, so I figured a 4 flex might be best, but wouldnt want that to be too stiff to deter from their pow performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by HAB
Like I have said previously and spoke to keith in great detail about a stiffer protest, these shapes lend themselves to a stiffer flex profile. The ski really doesn’t rely on tip flex for float as it gets it’s float from just in front of the binding/widest point. Same reason the Lotus 138 is so stiff. It makes the ski more knife like, enhances it’s acceleration through and out of a turn as well as helps it deal with chopped up conditions better than the stock 3 flex.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdadour
I ski a #4 and love it. Soft conditions and a little bit of room to run, man there is nothing like 'em.
Yeep, custom 4 flex here. They still ski tight spots fine, even at speed as they pivot on a dime. Now some room to run, hooboy!Quote:
Originally Posted by N1CK.
Quote:
Originally Posted by N1CK.
^^^all of this above is totally true IME^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by 2FUNKY
Let me preface by saying i perceive 2funky as being way more athletic and badass than my decrepit old weaksauce.
Me: 6'4" 225# 46 years. Semidecrepit but technically solid. I dont have trouble bending really any ski. My knees are toast though. 192 flex4 ultralight core (touring ski) mounted 1.5 back.
Love the Protests. Tour on em quite a bit. Weight due to width and snow buildup gets to me sometimes though.
They want to run for sure. They pivot fine but are more fun with speed. I skiied them for a season inbounds with tech bindings. Issues with that boot and binding inbounds,? Yes.
Issues with the ski? Not really, except for the mount point.
Soft chop? No problemm.
Hard setup PNW glopchop? Time for this old ass to hit the bar regardless of which ski.
I do think flex 3 would be a tad easier in trees and tight spaces. Would probably hurt chop performance though.
Ive seriously been considering a flex3 in the longest length (196 i think?) to maximize float but get the extra stability with length. Not sure it's warranted with all the storm day tree skiing i do.
They like to run for sure
4 flex it is. Thanks dudes. If I end up getting them, Ill return here to go down the mount point rabbit hole haha
Just added a pair of shorty Protests to my gear sale if anyone's interested