Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

i'm out a K for canceling on a SE asia trip but I don't care

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Fair enough. But you retired early in a town with a low cost of living and good skiing. I’m guessing a lot of cruisers are in a different boat (literally and figuratively) financially and perhaps this was something they saved up for over years.

And on top of that a lot of Americans and Canadians seem to travel without any insurance (including travel health insurance) - let alone paying for fancy plans with no questions asked non-medical cancellation policies.

They should have done what you did and canceled and eaten the cost.

I did a loop through 4 Asian cities in January that all had positive cases. I did my homework and knew the risks and had full insurance. And I took plenty of precautions. If I got it I would have only myself to blame for choosing to follow through with my plans.

I would have chosen differently if the plan was to get on a giant floating Petri dish in the midst of a regional pandemic.

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Originally Posted by bennymac

Fair enough. But you retired early in a town with a low cost of living and good skiing. I’m guessing a lot of cruisers are in a different boat (literally and figuratively) financially and perhaps this was something they saved up for over years.

And on top of that a lot of Americans and Canadians seem to travel without any insurance (including travel health insurance) - let alone paying for fancy plans with no questions asked non-medical cancellation policies.

They should have done what you did and canceled and eaten the cost.

I did a loop through 4 Asian cities in January that all had positive cases. I did my homework and knew the risks and had full insurance. And I took plenty of precautions. If I got it I would have only myself to blame for choosing to follow through with my plans.

I would have chosen differently if the plan was to get on a giant floating Petri dish in the midst of a regional pandemic.

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The main risk isn't getting sick, it's the risk of getting quarantined.

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Originally Posted by 4matic

US economy to fragile. Can’t risk election year slow down.

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That's my point. Price probably well under $1B for wu flu insurance today. Get a bunch of expert teams and safety equipment ready to go anywhere on Earth. Make quarantine pleasant so people are more likely to go. Pay countries to protect health. No way cruise ships should have been rejected from multiple ports. USA is asleep on this (and other countries).

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Originally Posted by Viva

Were this indeed the case, any real American would be asking "What can I do to help?".

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One here! Can't see a better use for my taxes and government at the moment.

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Originally Posted by old goat

The main risk isn't getting sick, it's the risk of getting quarantined.

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Yeah I had my own self imposed “quarantine” when I got home.

The cities I went to in Asia had positive cases but amongst millions of people so the numbers were tiny.

Took reasonable precautions on the trip and scheduled the departure home before things could get too out of control in those cities.

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Originally Posted by bennymac

I would have chosen differently if the plan was to get on a giant floating Petri dish in the midst of a regional pandemic.

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uh, you did plan to get into gigantic petri dishes. At least if you actually interacted with those citys

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Originally Posted by dunfree

uh, you did plan to get into gigantic petri dishes. At least if you actually interacted with those citys

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Populations in those cities were over 10 million. Number of positive cases were in the low single digits. That is not reasonably comparable to a cruise ship at sea in my opinion.

You wouldn't likely leave a city of millions if 5 people had norovirus.

I wouldn’t set sail on a cruise ship if I knew that 1 passenger was boarding with confirmed norovirus (or coronavirus for that matter)

Lots of evidence out there about how quickly shit spreads through a cruise ship. 5 cases of something in a city of 15 million is a different story.

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Originally Posted by huckbucket

Dude. How does someone find a vid like that with <1000 views?

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Ripz is the resident right wing conspiracy theorist. I Have a feeling he spends most of his time going down these kinds of rabbit holes

Sent from my SM-N960U using TGR Forums mobile app

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Originally Posted by My Pet Powder Goat

Ripz is the resident right wing conspiracy theorist. I Have a feeling he spends most of his time going down these kinds of rabbit holes

Sent from my SM-N960U using TGR Forums mobile app

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nah brah i just got da mad skilz

Was listening to an interview with a guy who decided to stay on his ship when they started evacuating people to stateside quarantine. He gave all sorts of bullshit reasons. I'm thinking--booze for quarantined passengers on ship. Yes. Booze for quarantined people on AF base-No. Easy call.

Age of Coronavirus Deaths

Based on all 72,314 cases of COVID-19 confirmed, suspected, and asymptomatic cases in China as of February 11, a paper by the Chinese CCDC released on February 17 and published in the Chinese Journal of Epidemiology [1] has found that the risk of death increases the older you are, as follows:[
COVID-19 Fatality Rate by AGE:

DEATH RATE
80+ years old	14.8%
70-79 years old	8.0%
60-69 years old	3.6%
50-59 years old	1.3%
40-49 years old	0.4%
30-39 years old	0.2%
20-29 years old	0.2%
10-19 years old	0.2%
0-9 years old	no fatalities

^The risk of death naturally goes up the older you are. The virus just pushes things along faster.

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Originally Posted by Mofro261

Age of Coronavirus Deaths

Based on all 72,314 cases of COVID-19 confirmed, suspected, and asymptomatic cases in China as of February 11, a paper by the Chinese CCDC released on February 17 and published in the Chinese Journal of Epidemiology [1] has found that the risk of death increases the older you are, as follows:[
COVID-19 Fatality Rate by AGE:

DEATH RATE
80+ years old	14.8%
70-79 years old	8.0%
60-69 years old	3.6%
50-59 years old	1.3%
40-49 years old	0.4%
30-39 years old	0.2%
20-29 years old	0.2%
10-19 years old	0.2%
0-9 years old	no fatalities

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Oh shit, a large percentage of the TGRs are at risk.

50% of Chinese men smoke. 2% of Chinese women.

in Bali I mentioned to our cab driver that it looked like all the men smoked but none of the women and his rather simplistic answer was " Only prostitutes smoke "

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Originally Posted by 4matic

50% of Chinese men smoke. 2% of Chinese women.

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Half of all Chinese men are smoking 2% of the women? Damn! And I though the Japs were freaks.

Sent from my SM-G960U using TGR Forums mobile app

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Originally Posted by bennymac

Fair enough. But you retired early in a town with a low cost of living and good skiing. I’m guessing a lot of cruisers are in a different boat (literally and figuratively) financially and perhaps this was something they saved up for over years.

And on top of that a lot of Americans and Canadians seem to travel without any insurance (including travel health insurance) - let alone paying for fancy plans with no questions asked non-medical cancellation policies.

They should have done what you did and canceled and eaten the cost.

I did a loop through 4 Asian cities in January that all had positive cases. I did my homework and knew the risks and had full insurance. And I took plenty of precautions. If I got it I would have only myself to blame for choosing to follow through with my plans.

I would have chosen differently if the plan was to get on a giant floating Petri dish in the midst of a regional pandemic.

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Right now flying into hong kong would be like boot packing up a wind loaded Aviy slope into a major storm as dusk approaches with the temperature dropping, so are the odds of living thru significantly BOW if you didnt go ?

I don't know about Americans but most Canadians buy travel insurance myself included cuz it isnt really expensive and we have heard all those horror stories about HC in America but this isnt about getting sick its about the odds of dieing


actualy i think a lot of cruisers are repeat offending boomers, also I think there are a lot of boomers out there with LOTS of money to spend on cruising,

The Defined benifits pension is THE biggest thing about retirement, some Boomers have it , money just keeps appearing in the account, half the time I'm not sure what to do with it

so leaving a K on the table doesn't really mean anything but if you die they stop sending $$$$ and that would mean something

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

Right now flying into hong kong would be like boot packing up a wind loaded Aviy slope into a major storm as dusk approaches with the temperature dropping, so are the odds of living thru significantly BOW if you didnt go ?

I don't know about Americans but most Canadians buy travel insurance myself included cuz it isnt really expensive and we have heard all those horror stories about HC in America but this isnt about getting sick its about the odds of dieing


actualy i think a lot of cruisers are repeat offending boomers, also I think there are a lot of boomers out there with LOTS of money to spend on cruising,

The Defined benifits pension is THE biggest thing about retirement, some Boomers have it , money just keeps appearing in the account, half the time I'm not sure what to do with it

so leaving a K on the table doesn't really mean anything but if you die they stop sending $$$$ and that would mean something

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Good points. We adjusted our plans mid trip to not spend anytime in Hong Kong and that was still relatively early in the outbreak. We’d already paid for accommodations that were not refundable - no regrets absorbing those costs.

As I said before these cruisers should have done what you did and left the money on the table - even if their travel insurance wouldn’t cover a non medical trip cancellation (which I suspect most plans wouldn’t cover? Otherwise you could just book trips and cancel last minute all the time and the insurance companies would have to pay you back)

How many of those cruiser boomers crying out for tax payer funded million dollar evacuation plans from their plush prison cell are also the types to criticize “health care for all” plans? No way my neighbor is gonna get diabetes treatment on my dime! Make better choices I say! But somebody send me a plane - who knew this was a bad idea! Who can I sue for this situation?

Watch for the class action suits against the cruise lines this spring.

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Originally Posted by Mofro261

Age of Coronavirus Deaths

Based on all 72,314 cases of COVID-19 confirmed, suspected, and asymptomatic cases in China as of February 11, a paper by the Chinese CCDC released on February 17 and published in the Chinese Journal of Epidemiology [1] has found that the risk of death increases the older you are, as follows:[
COVID-19 Fatality Rate by AGE:

DEATH RATE
80+ years old	14.8%
70-79 years old	8.0%
60-69 years old	3.6%
50-59 years old	1.3%
40-49 years old	0.4%
30-39 years old	0.2%
20-29 years old	0.2%
10-19 years old	0.2%
0-9 years old	no fatalities

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seems obvious but the Spanish flu preferentially killed young men--in part because of WWI with large numbers of young men living in close quarters but also because the disease seemed to be more lethal for them.

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Originally Posted by Mofro261

Age of Coronavirus Deaths

Based on all 72,314 cases of COVID-19 confirmed, suspected, and asymptomatic cases in China as of February 11, a paper by the Chinese CCDC released on February 17 and published in the Chinese Journal of Epidemiology [1] has found that the risk of death increases the older you are, as follows:[
COVID-19 Fatality Rate by AGE:

DEATH RATE
80+ years old	14.8%
70-79 years old	8.0%
60-69 years old	3.6%
50-59 years old	1.3%
40-49 years old	0.4%
30-39 years old	0.2%
20-29 years old	0.2%
10-19 years old	0.2%
0-9 years old	no fatalities

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That's agist!

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Originally Posted by bennymac

G

How many of those cruiser boomers crying out for tax payer funded million dollar evacuation plans from their plush prison cell are also the types to criticize “health care for all” plans? No way my neighbor is gonna get diabetes treatment on my dime! Make better choices I say! But somebody send me a plane - who knew this was a bad idea! Who can I sue for this situation?
.

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If i google Universal I get hits for theme parks and movie theatres hmmm

so once tried to explain Universal HC to an american and he thot it was great except he didnt wana pay for that fat guy ... I gave up,

but fuck ya Americans ain't gona take care of Americans, they can can all just fuck off and die somehwere hopefully before they get pissed off desperate and shoot someone

So for a 3 week vaca anywhere in the world I am gona spend 4-5K

While I may have left 1 K on the table OTOH I kept the other 3-4K

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Originally Posted by Mofro261

Age of Coronavirus Deaths

Based on all 72,314 cases of COVID-19 confirmed, suspected, and asymptomatic cases in China as of February 11, a paper by the Chinese CCDC released on February 17 and published in the Chinese Journal of Epidemiology [1] has found that the risk of death increases the older you are, as follows:[
COVID-19 Fatality Rate by AGE:

DEATH RATE
80+ years old	14.8%
70-79 years old	8.0%
60-69 years old	3.6%
50-59 years old	1.3%
40-49 years old	0.4%
30-39 years old	0.2%
20-29 years old	0.2%
10-19 years old	0.2%
0-9 years old	no fatalities

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It would be interesting to find out what those higher risk group percentages would be without any medical intervention.

Also, im curious if the death total is higher than reported due to the fact that a fraction of the individuals needing med help are able to receive it in Wuhan. Like people dead in their apartments not yet counted. Time will tell.

If you are old Chinese and get flu your death will be noted as the secondary affect; Pneumonia or heart attack. Not sure how the USA does it.

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Originally Posted by Yonder_River

It would be interesting to find out what those higher risk group percentages would be without any medical intervention.

Also, im curious if the death total is higher than reported due to the fact that a fraction of the individuals needing med help are able to receive it in Wuhan. Like people dead in their apartments not yet counted. Time will tell.

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there isn't a lot of active medical intervention--oxygen, fluids, if things go south artificial ventilation but in the high risk groups once things get to that point mortality is very high. There is not proven effective antiviral drug treatment. So the mortality in the high risk groups would likely be similar with or without medical treatment. While the article says the denominator includes suspected and asymptomatic cases, it is quite possible that the number of asymptomatic cases is much higher, making the death rate much lower.

In a surveillance state like China I doubt there are a lot of people lying around dead not being counted.

I have a yearly travel insurance plan that covers just about every contingency including hospital stays, medical evacuations, evacuations from war zones via armed security forces and little things like trip delays and lost luggage.

I've used it a few times over the years and won't travel without it. Bag lost when attending a conference in Bali? No prob, I can go buy new stuff and they cover the costs while having a concierge call/email me every couple hours about the status of my bag while simultaneously hounding the airline to get it to me (exact same thing happened to me in Barcelona another year).

Puking my brains out and unable to keep down water while in Sydney? I call a hotline and an hour later a doc shows up to my hotel with Rx meds. Did the same thing in Amsterdam, except they called ahead to a clinic a block from my hotel.

GF unable to keep down fluids while in Lima? Less than an hour later a Mercedes shows up and whisked us away to an expat hospital where an English speaking doctor was waiting for us.

Connecting flight in Tokyo cancelled because weather? Cool, I'll expense a 5 star hotel to the insurance company and have a per diem for food in addition to the one my company provides.

I dont think there has been a year in 5+ years of having the policy that it hasn't paid for itself and then some.

It's nice not to ever have to worry about dealing with third world medical systems or a medical evac that can easily cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, but the convenience factor for smoothing out normal travel BS makes it worth it by itself.