Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

60k seems high, but what do I know? Shit's crazy

Your contractor will have a preferred method, and many old ones still haven't realized that a mud bed with liner is way outdated. I would expect dedicated tile contractors to have kept up with the times, but the "I've been doing it this way for 30 years!" crowd is ever present.

Re: grout and floor ideas. There are amazing epoxy and other high tech grouts these days that are leagues ahead of what you're likely used to in terms of stain resistance and durability. Personally, I like a floor with smaller tiles because I like a more gentle slope rather than the sharper angles that end up being required when you use bigger slabs in a fairly small shower. For walls, a large format, tile or even a slab could be a good option if you like that look.

Whatever you do, don't do a shower without a door. It's a current trend that needs to die and is a real disservice to homeowners.

While I prefer a Schluter type system or a one-piece shower pan like tile redi, the old school mud bed can be fine. If you push your contractor to do something they're not comfortable with, it's possible that they will screw it up. Schluter stuff is not hard to work with, but you do have to follow the directions carefully and do everything exactly as they recommend for the warranty to be honored. So, either find someone who has kept up with the modern changes in material and methods, or live with the antiquated ones you've already found.

Oh, and linear drains. They can work, but definitely introduce another failure mode into this overall system. If you're not really in love with the idea of it, I would skip it personally. Pay attention to little details like what grate you want on your normal drain and which direction you want the slats in it to face after it's installed. There is little that it's more annoying than seeing a $20,000 shower installed with the grate either not centered in the tiles properly or with it slightly off angle.

Evan knows what is up. "My shower is cold" "No, your water is hot AF...You thought it was cool to have a 200sq. ft bath with a curbless rain shower with no glass. I can price a fireplace and a heated towel bar in here if you want. I'd say $50kmin".

A couple of things. Firstly, all the prefab options are gonna be for your standard wall framing sizes. I'm almost always doing a custom size that that won't work. Drain location is one of the variables to consider.

Dan, if your $12k is a turn key shower remodel, that's a fair price. I would charge more. Pencil out something like $1k/man day + materials +30%+management fee+profit and overhead and let me know what is "should" be.

My Ukranians set 2 quartz slab walls, a large format quartz shower floor and curb for $5k. I did the pan, backer and all the waterproofing.

Thanks for the feedback on shower doors, our contractor said the same thing and we're going with a glass wall+glass door. I did catch maybe a whiff of "we've always done tile over a mud bed," but the contractor isn't that old and crusty, probably not far off my age...oh, fuck, waitaminit

Mud deck is not inherently wrong or bad. I just see no benefit. And they fail slowly which is a big problem for me as a contractor. If its gonna leak, I want that to happen now. Here is the process through waterproofing. You still have to put your muddeck on top and the tile backer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpE1A6ogUNI

The inside corners create some challenges for having a good tile plane (the Denshield goes over). The outside/curb corner is failure prone. And forming the curb is a dick sandwich.

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Originally Posted by dan_pdx

We got two quotes from well reviewed design build contractors in Portland for a gut job on a tiny bathroom (about sixty square feet) and they both said 60k as the base, up from there depending on how many bells and whistles we add. Meanwhile, Google tells me that people are getting their whole bathrooms redone for 15K in Portland. Whatever

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no one's doing whole bathrooms for 15k with any level of quality you'd expect in a private home

60k sounds more realistic & likely on the low end tbh

if it makes you feel any better, i just got an estimate to provide a flat deck +/- 12' x 20' over a slightly sloped grade for $28-35k, range depending on footing type (conc in sonotube vs ground screw). Just footings, framing & weather resistant decking! No guard rails, no permit reqd, no elec, no plum, no ceiling, no roofing, no windows or doors, no tile, etc etc

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

no one's doing whole bathrooms for 15k with any level of quality you'd expect in a private home

60k sounds more realistic & likely on the low end tbh

if it makes you feel any better, i just got an estimate to provide a flat deck +/- 12' x 20' over a slightly sloped grade for $28-35k, range depending on footing type (conc in sonotube vs ground screw). Just footings, framing & weather resistant decking! No guard rails, no permit reqd, no elec, no plum, no ceiling, no roofing, no windows or doors, no tile, etc etc

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Hell, I'll come over and knock that out for you for $20k, just let me know when. Seriously though, that seems crazy expensive

Thanks for weighing in on cost, I was hoping you would pop in. Makes me feel better that we're not paying unreasonably high costs, just regular high costs

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Originally Posted by dan_pdx

Hell, I'll come over and knock that out for you for $20k, just let me know when. Seriously though, that seems crazy expensive Thanks for weighing in on cost, I was hoping you would pop in. Makes me feel better that we're not paying unreasonably high costs, just regular high costs

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yeah, it's crazy...a fucking flat platform...! the minor slope means it needs real footings, not just pier blocks, but beyond that it's pretty straightforward
my alternative is doing it myself, and while i'm totally capable, it's time that i could be billable at something i'm better skilled at
or maybe just do a compacted gravel pad inside some PT 6x6's nailed into the dirt with rebar in that location, but that's not particularly nice looking

Boom, and there is the rub. And that's why you want wealthy customers or said another way I'm looking for people that value my time, experience and skills the way they value theirs.

I like to play a game called "how much should it cost and why". Generally, people have no idea. If they do, they tend to underestimate overhead and material costs. They tend to either think that jobs are way more profitable than they are or they have no clue and they are basically say, "I wish it was cheaper" or " I can't afford that". All of which is totally cool but it don't mean you get it on sale.

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Also, you can do large format or even slabs on shower floors now. I've got some kick ass Ukranians that do slab showers (floors and walls) for a very fair price. There are linear drains that are really easy to waterproof these days.

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Hey Foggy, I’m curious about the large format or slab for a shower floor. I was under the impression that smaller tiles on the floor were advantageous for being more “non-slip”. How do you solve for the slipperiness of a single slab?

Textured finish on the slab of tile.

While we are on the shower topic, I have a rental that was built in the mid-70s and the shower really needs a refresh. It is not large maybe 4.5 ft wide by 3.5 ft deep. Somewhere in that approximate range. I was talking to my daughter about her tile guy and she said "well you're going to tear out all the plumbing right" and I asked her why would I replace the plumbing in a second story bathroom and try and replace it all the way down to the tie in in the slab and she told me I need to. Is she for real?

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Originally Posted by spanky

Hey Foggy, I’m curious about the large format or slab for a shower floor. I was under the impression that smaller tiles on the floor were advantageous for being more “non-slip”. How do you solve for the slipperiness of a single slab?

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The main issue with large tiles for a shower floor is slope to drain. You need a quality tile setter and the correct geometry of drain / shower / layout to make it not look like a mistake…

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Originally Posted by liv2ski

While we are on the shower topic, I have a rental that was built in the mid-70s and the shower really needs a refresh. It is not large maybe 4.5 ft wide by 3.5 ft deep. Somewhere in that approximate range. I was talking to my daughter about her tile guy and she said "well you're going to tear out all the plumbing right" and I asked her why would I replace the plumbing in a second story bathroom and try and replace it all the way down to the tie in in the slab and she told me I need to. Is she for real?

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No - although changing the mixing valve would need some minor plumbing work. However the wall would be open so if you have shit material/quality or want to change head height or whatever, it’s there.

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In my main tub/ shower the mixer valve is on the outside wall of the house so if it had a problem the tile would need to be taken out whereas if the valve was in the back tub/ shower wall the valve could be acessed by cutting out some DW in the bathroom closet with no tile needing to be taken up, why didnt they think of this 50 yrs ago ? actulay if that valve failed I would just put the new one in that back wall

Thanks Nick, turns out she was confused and thinking of a different property we own that is single story on a raised foundation.

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Originally Posted by nickwm21

correct geometry

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i have been surprised by the number or tilesetters i've met who think nothing of dishing a shower pan, but never considered four flat facets (shallow upside down pyramid) all tipping point-to-point to the drain. I have always thought dishing flat materials seemed harder to do

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

outside wall of the house

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seems sketch i hope that is a thick wall

Thats the beauty of the cnc foam pans I linked above. Even with a center drain, that can pitch the pan to your tile layout.

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles;[emoji[emoji6[emoji640

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji638][emoji638][emoji637][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]]Thats the beauty of the cnc foam pans I linked above. Even with a center drain, that can pitch the pan to your tile layout.

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That’s cool. I wonder if this type of service exists outside Denver

Ya wanna tile your bathroom? Figure out what is possible and how to do it?

Watch this blokes channel for all the tips you'll need...


https://www.youtube.com/@thebespokebloke

No idea. But I'm pretty sure they ship. There are many non-custom products what work similarly. But so many homes around here are slab on grade with radiant heat in gyp. So, in the basement/walkout you gotta set the shower drain before the foundation wall is poured. Yeah, you can box it out and fill it in later but its still really difficult to bullseye that.

I got one coming up. I'll take some pictures...maybe it will work.

Q for the contractors here: about a year and a half ago, we had two bathrooms remodeled at our house. Last night, a water leak developed on the ceiling below the remodeled upstairs bathroom. Today, a plumber came out to inspect, opened the drywall in the ceiling where the leak was, and - - long story short-- the plumber determined the leak was coming from an incorrectly installed gasket on the bathtub drain vent/ stopper.

I called the contractor who did the remodels, sent him some photos, and he is going to come look at it tomorrow. My question is: is it reasonable to ask the contractor to cover the repairs and/or do the repairs himself, since it appears the damage is from an incorrectly installed part?

It has been a while since the remodel work, but we just don't use that bathtub much, or I guess we would have seen the leak earlier.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...805956711a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d0df290bce.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...eee0ffe553.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...5a5fcbcb3f.jpg

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

i hope that is a thick wall

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This house was built in the 70's the walls are 2x6 nothing has frozen but the last house i owned had a kick-out in the kitchen that would freeze at -40

Yes - I would try to lean on them for the repair.

Look up the what the warranty period was in your contract. (Likely 1 year… so timed out…)

Look up “construction defect” laws for your local.


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Give him a chance to fix it, any good contractor would be wanting to make something like that right.

The ol' didn't install the gasket on the overflow/diverter. Plumbers can be such hacks. So yeah, hopefully your guy is all "Ooops, sorry, I'm on it". But for future reference, a couple of things. 1. Call the installing contractor first to avoid the whole "how do I not know that the service plumber didn't fabricate this" and what you want from your GC is a "Certificate of Insurance" which specifically names you and your property as insured because if needed (not for this I don't think) you want to be able to initiate the claim

^^^ can you expand on that? Call the plumber before the GC? and when do you ask the GC for the certificate of insurance? At project completion? We are going to be remodeling our kitchen and a couple bathrooms in the next year or two and this is good knowledge to have. Thanks Foggy.

^^^ can you expand on that? Call the plumber before the GC? and when do you ask the GC for the certificate of insurance? At project completion? We are going to be remodeling our kitchen and a couple bathrooms in the next year or two and this is good knowledge to have. Thanks Foggy.


Call the GC first, Projects I do that have any issues with the client calls me instead of either the sub associated with the problem or in the above case, a different plumber. I then make sure everything is fixed to their satisfaction. A plumbing leak like this one would be fixed by my plumbers and even though it is over the one year warranty I would patch the ceiling as I want the customer to be happy. And of course recommend my services to their friends.

Insurance certificate comes before, my provider has an online portal that I use that after input of their e-mail that sends a copy to them for their records. My drywall contractor was out last week measuring a job for me and had an interesting story to tell while we chatted about employee hassles. He asked his subs for proof of insurance after he got audited last year. One guy sent him a picture of a certificate that was blurry. It was from the same broker he uses so he called to ask if it was legit. Not surprisingly he had used whiteout and added his name to a friends certificate, Bye Bye.

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Originally Posted by I Skied Bandini Mountain

Give him a chance to fix it, any good contractor would be wanting to make something like that right.

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this

I flood a house on average every two years 90% of the time it's what I call pretty minor usually the customer doesn't think so

one time a year or two after the job I destroyed half of the lower level of a home that was a big one only time I made a claim
not gonna get into the hows and whys each one has a pretty story
dealing with one right now a bunch of bullshit that all lined up to fuck me in the ass

as soon as the root of the problem is found like this current one I got I step up and say we will take care of all of this if I can pass the buck I do but thats rare

Yep, VT covered it. Most good GCs tend towards the "Control Freak" side of things. Let them run the show indefinitely.

Re: COIs You email me a fresh one with the first invoice of the my insurance year (June 1st). Or no check. My audit requires that the Cert pre dates payment. It makes sense, from an exposure perspective the underwriter wants you to be sure the sub has insurance before the work commences

Subs: Many homos/customers don't treat my subs how I treat my subs. So no sub list referrals any more. The last straw was this winter "Yeah, call David, he's a great painter and keeps my customers happy" "Hey Foggy did you ever hear back from that lady up 125" "No, why what's up" "Well I went and looked at the job, an emailed her a bit, I followed up on the phone twice but never heard back" "Well that's Fucked, let me figure it out"...next site vist "Hey customer lady, I talked to David, he said he emailed you a bid, called you twice and you ghosted him" "Oh yeah...up...we got somebody from Denver for cheaper" "Great. But you have to call him back. You are compromising my relationship with my subs. Why don't you call him right now?"


So from now on I manage everything and markup everything. You want your house painted, I talk to my homies, get a price, step on on "It will cost $XXX take it or leave it"

The remodeling contractor came over yesterday, looked around a lot, ended up cutting access through drywall to get to the back side of the tub/shower valve and plumbing (adjacent room, wall behind the tub/shower).

While the tub stopper /overflow plate does leak if you pour a lot of water on it, that didn't explain the leak, since that tub rarely gets used. So he kept looking. And with an inspection camera, found a leak in the hot side line in the remodel work - - so then cut access to the plumbing. (Cutting drywall easier to repair than ripping out the tiled wall in the bathroom).

The leak is at a pex fitting installed by the contractor, where it attaches to existing brass plumbing. Weirdly, our house has brass in a lot of the plumbing. The pex isn't leaking at the clamp (the clamp you use when installing), but in the fitting itself - - looks like a defective fitting.

He's coming back today to repair the plumbing, and we're letting everything dry out in wall. Then next week he'll come back and repair the drywall. I'm in northern Nevada, it's very dry here, and 80* temps every day now. Stuff will dry fast.

Pics are of the cut in the wall behind the tub/shower, and a close up of the fitting that leaked. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...8d2a144c59.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...b2476a292d.jpg

N=[emoji637] industry gossip on pex: I have heard of one house in our area that recently flooded because the plumber used what is now known to be a defective batch of pex
So, GC’s out there might want to confirm their plumbers are using reliable materials…

"" The remodeling contractor came over yesterday, looked around a lot, ended up cutting access through drywall to get to the back side of the tub/shower valve and plumbing (adjacent room, wall behind the tub/shower). While the tub stopper /overflow plate does leak if you pour a lot of water on it, that didn't explain the leak, since that tub rarely gets used. So he kept looking. And with an inspection camera, found a leak in the hot side line in the remodel work - - so then cut access to the plumbing. (Cutting drywall easier to repair than ripping out the tiled wall in the bathroom). ""


yeah thats ^^exactly what I was talking about in an above post where i said I would just delete the old controls & come thru the opposite shower wall with new controls instead of digging out tile work eve tho the drain would be at the other end of the tub

that is the plastic pipe that was popular in the 90s ? juniors new old town house in Calgary had the PB pipe and I believe it was going to be a problem getting house insurance so I figure why wait till I am dead I sent him 10 K to get all the pipe replaced

Last year I sent him a picture of my new Tundra with the caption no free money this year

El Chup, that leak is on the plumber for not performing a successful leak test. Nothing like seeing the system held 120psi over the weekend after the drywall crew finished.

Maybe. But there are limitation. Its a remodel so water is constantly being used. Also, I've seen systems hold pressure, until they don't. Right before the project is done seems about common. And where I live, somewhere around zero plumbers are making special trips to double check there work a day or two after. How much are you willing to pay for that service? In my opinion, that is the GC/PMs job and they should have that priced into there business model.

The only think stopping your house from flooding at any given moment is a collect of $.50 Chinese parts concealed behind your interior finish. Sioux Chief and Brasscraft and regarded as premium products sold at the plumbing supply house. On my house, I've seen the washer box leak from a microscopic crack in the casting. It passed the airtest and held pressure for months during construction. It only started leaking after regular household use. And I've seen a angle stop leak after move in and do millions in damage (second home, nobody around). In both instances, the plumber removed the fitting and sent in the the manufacturer for testing. Mine was NBD because it was a small exposed drip. On the big house, insurance was involved and Brasscraft paid.

Which goes back to calling the GC first. Often, the scene is spoiled and the insurance companies laugh at you. The hypothetical is that the service plumber you called cuts out the defective part, replaces it and throws in the garbage. The GC, installing plumber and and their liability insurer ain't gonna pay for shit. I've lived it. I was accused on sending a 16ga 2" thought a pex plumbing line during base install. But there were no photos and "it had already been fixed" by the time I got the phone call. I called and talked to my agent and they told everyone to pound sand. I knew the PM for the restoration company. Yes, the was a flood job and flooded, happens all the time. Turns out the shit bag plumber ran a pex line though the bottom corner of the bottom plate with no nail plate. You can't do that. So they were just trying to flex on anyone and everyone without taking blame.

So yeah, shit happens.

Maybe. But there are limitation. Its a remodel so water is constantly being used. Also, I've seen systems hold pressure, until they don't. Right before the project is done seems about common. And where I live, somewhere around zero plumbers are making special trips to double check there work a day or two after. How much are you willing to pay for that service? In my opinion, that is the GC/PMs job and they should have that priced into there business model.

The only think stopping your house from flooding at any given moment is a collect of $.50 Chinese parts concealed behind your interior finish. Sioux Chief and Brasscraft and regarded as premium products sold at the plumbing supply house. On my house, I've seen the washer box leak from a microscopic crack in the casting. It passed the airtest and held pressure for months during construction. It only started leaking after regular household use. And I've seen a angle stop leak after move in and do millions in damage (second home, nobody around). In both instances, the plumber removed the fitting and sent in the the manufacturer for testing. Mine was NBD because it was a small exposed drip. On the big house, insurance was involved and Brasscraft paid.

Which goes back to calling the GC first. Often, the scene is spoiled and the insurance companies laugh at you. The hypothetical is that the service plumber you called cuts out the defective part, replaces it and throws in the garbage. The GC, installing plumber and and their liability insurer ain't gonna pay for shit. I've lived it. I was accused on sending a 16ga 2" thought a pex plumbing line during base install. But there were no photos and "it had already been fixed" by the time I got the phone call. I called and talked to my agent and they told everyone to pound sand. I knew the PM for the restoration company. Yes, the was a flood job and flooded, happens all the time. Turns out the shit bag plumber ran a pex line though the bottom corner of the bottom plate with no nail plate. You can't do that. So they were just trying to flex on anyone and everyone without taking blame.

So yeah, shit happens.

I’m considering replacing my deck. Current deck is free standing supposedly because of the protruding brick trim between the siding upper and brick lower. It’s 14x18 on buried posts, roughly 7’ off the ground. Way underbuilt.

I’m reasonably capable but work at a snail’s pace and don’t want to be without a deck forever. Anything wrong with free standing? If I stick with free standing, do the posts need to be buried? Is it possible to pull the posts one by one and replace, then replace the joists and decking when that’s done? How does a DIY dork remove existing posts and concrete footers? What other shit should I be considering?

Maybe super unrelated to your situation, and no help to your construction request, but if you are around flood zones and your deck is attached to your house, the deck being even 1" into that flood zone would pull the house in by default. If its a freestanding deck, your house would not be included, saving $ on insurance and such.

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Originally Posted by bagtagley

I’m considering replacing my deck. Current deck is free standing supposedly because of the protruding brick trim between the siding upper and brick lower. It’s 14x18 on buried posts, roughly 7’ off the ground. Way underbuilt.

I’m reasonably capable but work at a snail’s pace and don’t want to be without a deck forever. Anything wrong with free standing? If I stick with free standing, do the posts need to be buried? Is it possible to pull the posts one by one and replace, then replace the joists and decking when that’s done? How does a DIY dork remove existing posts and concrete footers? What other shit should I be considering?

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You could go post by post or row by row with some temp shoring. Either post shores or scaffold style shoring frames. Concrete supply houses or scaffold companies rent/sell that stuff. Make sure that shoring is super stable; dig down to solid earth, oversize sill plates, kick/brace it. Sounds fun.


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Thinking about adding an adu over the house. Approximately 800 square feet, one bedroom, one bath, kitchen etc. Reached out to a couple of contractors and they thought they could do it for about $400/$500 a square foot. I think they're smoking crack. What do you guys think?

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If “over” the house means what I think it means and your in a non-LCOL area - seems about right.


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