Ikon Pass

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Originally Posted by tuco

Haha, right on!
Brother and I were able to get a rope drop to an area we don't bother w/ much cuz it gets pounded quick. We were 4th and 5th(traverse, so there's a line of people). We get near the end and skiers 1-3 go low under some trees and brother and I go high. When we got to the end we just pointed out of the trees and skier #1 is standing there waiting at the bottom end of the treeline yelling at us that we are poaching his line. 0 reason he should have still been there. Skiers 2 & 3 did what they should and were already gone. Fucker came up to me at the lift base and started calling me a poacher, so I had to rip into the iKoner that there was absolutely no reason he should have been there still and there was never any intent to 'poach' any line(it's a fucking ski resort for christsake!)

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From the pic, I’m 99% sure I see you guys on pow days all the time (and share lifts occasionally, we’ve talked about the descending traversing at the tude).

I also think I know this altercation - was it far out on east face? If so I was skier 2 or 3. Only detail that doesn’t line up is going low, I went way out from the top. Anyway, if it’s the same altercation too funny it was you guys - I told skier 1 he can’t stop to GoPro and expect to not get snaked - will make the story better that it was mags who got him haha.


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Originally Posted by DigSki

From the pic, I’m 99% sure I see you guys on pow days all the time (and share lifts occasionally, we’ve talked about the descending traversing at the tude).

I also think I know this altercation - was it far out on east face? If so I was skier 2 or 3. Only detail that doesn’t line up is going low, I went way out from the top. Anyway, if it’s the same altercation too funny it was you guys - I told skier 1 he can’t stop to GoPro and expect to not get snaked - will make the story better that it was mags who got him haha.


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Ha, I've snaked a few people this year who were taking pics of the untracked run they were about to ski. If someone did that to me I would think "I deserved that". And does the guy even know what poaching is? That's not poaching.

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Originally Posted by muted reborn

Ha, I've snaked a few people this year who were taking pics of the untracked run they were about to ski. If someone did that to me I would think "I deserved that". And does the guy even know what poaching is? That's not poaching.

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You snooze you lose. Dropping in while somebody is fucking around taking pictures is not poaching.

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Originally Posted by DigSki

From the pic, I’m 99% sure I see you guys on pow days all the time (and share lifts occasionally, we’ve talked about the descending traversing at the tude).

I also think I know this altercation - was it far out on east face? If so I was skier 2 or 3. Only detail that doesn’t line up is going low, I went way out from the top. Anyway, if it’s the same altercation too funny it was you guys - I told skier 1 he can’t stop to GoPro and expect to not get snaked - will make the story better that it was mags who got him haha.


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Corey?
Yep, that's it!
Didn't see the dude fkn w/ the camera, just his face bitchin at us as we skied by. I could hear him say, "you're really gonna poach my line after I broke trail..." , his voice trailing off as I skied by��. Then he started bitching to me @ the return chair base. That's when I had to tell the dude to get fucked and why were you just standing there to begin with.

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Originally Posted by tuco

Corey?
Yep, that's it!
Didn't see the dude fkn w/ the camera, just his face bitchin at us as we skied by. I could hear him say, "you're really gonna poach my line after I broke trail..." , his voice trailing off as I skied by��. Then he started bitching to me @ the return chair base. That's when I had to tell the dude to get fucked and why were you just standing there to begin with.

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Not Corey but I ski with him quite a bit, he’s the man.

And that’s too funny. He did set it all the way to pinnacle (I went high cause fuck kicking that low one in, too much work), but then we waited at least 15 mins for patrol to open pinnacle - there’s no way you guys would have known he set the traverse. I understand his frustration, I always let the setters pick where they want to ski, but given we stood around for a while I think that etiquette generally goes out the window (and I think he learned he should do GoPro setup on the move)


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Hahaha, yeah, I didn't remember him standing there(just met Corey this yr, but apparently he knows all my friends up there) I guess we have talked about the transverse to fall line ikonogapers descent patterns with multiple people.
So I think I was laughing w/ you like 2 weekends ago on that traverse when that whole family was just standing at the point where you get on the trail @;Summit? All 4 of us squose by, but the dude got lippy w/ you and you had to tell the dude to get fucked?
On the day in question though. Yeah, we came rollin across the traverse and stopped at Pinnacle while we waited for patrol, poacher boy was standing in front, then the dreadlocked dude and you. I had no intention to snake the dudes line. It just wasn't an instance where you stop to fuck with a camera. I mean, if I stop and load a bowl, do I expect people to wait for me to finish. In my mind, I figured we were all probably on the same page of a recircuit over there before the masses kill the slope.

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Originally Posted by tuco

Hahaha, yeah, I didn't remember him standing there(just met Corey this yr, but apparently he knows all my friends up there) I guess we have talked about the transverse to fall line ikonogapers descent patterns with multiple people.
So I think I was laughing w/ you like 2 weekends ago on that traverse when that whole family was just standing at the point where you get on the trail @;Summit? All 4 of us squose by, but the dude got lippy w/ you and you had to tell the dude to get fucked?
On the day in question though. Yeah, we came rollin across the traverse and stopped at Pinnacle while we waited for patrol, poacher boy was standing in front, then the dreadlocked dude and you. I had no intention to snake the dudes line. It just wasn't an instance where you stop to fuck with a camera. I mean, if I stop and load a bowl, do I expect people to wait for me to finish. In my mind, I figured we were all probably on the same page of a recircuit over there before the masses kill the slope.

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Hah, yeah, you know who I am. Too funny. I’m back east for the summer but I’ll ask for change next season when I see you guys.

And to your point, if I need to buckle boots or do something else before I ski a line, I do it quickly on the traverse where I know I’m not gonna hold people up and I know people can’t pass me (like on the sidestep). If I’m doing that stuff at the top of a line I just assume I’m gonna get passed.

Fun thread drift, but to bring us back somewhat on topic I saw somewhere that solitude will be revising their parking policy over the summer. Sure would be nice if they made those kind of announcements before we all bought our passes…


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In for another season at Tremblant.

letitsnow

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Originally Posted by DigSki

Hah, yeah, you know who I am. Too funny. I’m back east for the summer but I’ll ask for change next season when I see you guys.

And to your point, if I need to buckle boots or do something else before I ski a line, I do it quickly on the traverse where I know I’m not gonna hold people up and I know people can’t pass me (like on the sidestep). If I’m doing that stuff at the top of a line I just assume I’m gonna get passed.

Fun thread drift, but to bring us back somewhat on topic I saw somewhere that solitude will be revising their parking policy over the summer. Sure would be nice if they made those kind of announcements before we all bought our passes…


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Hahaha, it is too funny! I had to chuckle because of the 4 incidents I had in the last 5 weeks!
Yeah dude, do for sure! I'm pretty bummed this resort season is basically over.
The announcement of parking changes the day after early season pass ends is definitely a bush league move!

Today, at, Mt Rose, Mrs C managed to go through the RFID gates twice with her Ikon pass in her pocket, before the gate beeped and stopped her.

We joked with patrol nearby that Rose must've joined Ikon, they just hadn't told anyone yet...

[emoji15]

Now they just bought Wiegle heli to pair with CMH. That's the two largest BC heli operators, right?

yep

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Originally Posted by phatty

Now they just bought Wiegle heli to pair with CMH. That's the two largest BC heli operators, right?

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Mike Wiegele heli and CMH, as far as I know, are the two oldest and largest heli ops in the world. According to Wiegele's website they have access to 1.5+ million acres.

the euroBBI thread seems to cover epic version pretty well...any mag wisdom for value visits to euroland on Ikon?

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

the euroBBI thread seems to cover epic version pretty well...any mag wisdom for value visits to euroland on Ikon?

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Common wisdom is that if you're headed to Europe, don't sweat the lift ticket costs - they're going to be a miniscule portion of the costs of a ski trip over there.

That said - if I were doing an Ikon-specific trip to Europe I'd head to the Dolomites.

Ikon and Epic Duopoly

https://slate.com/business/2023/12/e...s7f2pgr1y7c5yx

It's a decent summary of the current situation... Vail and Alterra have accumulated huge $$$ at the expense of the soul of skiing... summed up nicely by:

I logged 70-plus days for a grand sum of $349—an unbeatable five bucks an outing. This kind of value has led proponents to declare that Vail and Alterra have made skiing more accessible than ever.

But accessible for whom? For a recreational skier of means in Brooklyn who can front a thousand bucks well before the start of the season, a pass does indeed open up new possibilities. The story is different, though, for a working dad in Denver who wants to take his kid up to Breckenridge for a day in late December to try out skiing. He will find that everything that is not a season pass is criminally expensive. Parking is $20; his lift ticket $251 (online—at the window it’ll be $279); basic rental gear $78; burger, fries, and a Gatorade for lunch $35; end-of-day Coors Light $8; and $418 for the kid’s rental, ticket, and group lesson (at least the lesson includes lunch). All in, an $800-plus day.

....even independent partners tend to adopt a similar pricing structure to encourage pass purchases. In 2016, the year before it joined Ikon, Eldora, a small mountain outside of Boulder, charged $84 for a single-day ticket and $99 for a day of youth ski school. Today, a lift ticket is $169, ski school $269. Inflation is not that bad.

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Originally Posted by ski_the_fraulein

It's a decent summary of the current situation... Vail and Alterra have accumulated huge $$$ at the expense of the soul of skiing... summed up nicely by:

I logged 70-plus days for a grand sum of $349—an unbeatable five bucks an outing. This kind of value has led proponents to declare that Vail and Alterra have made skiing more accessible than ever.

But accessible for whom? For a recreational skier of means in Brooklyn who can front a thousand bucks well before the start of the season, a pass does indeed open up new possibilities. The story is different, though, for a working dad in Denver who wants to take his kid up to Breckenridge for a day in late December to try out skiing. He will find that everything that is not a season pass is criminally expensive. Parking is $20; his lift ticket $251 (online—at the window it’ll be $279); basic rental gear $78; burger, fries, and a Gatorade for lunch $35; end-of-day Coors Light $8; and $418 for the kid’s rental, ticket, and group lesson (at least the lesson includes lunch). All in, an $800-plus day.

....even independent partners tend to adopt a similar pricing structure to encourage pass purchases. In 2016, the year before it joined Ikon, Eldora, a small mountain outside of Boulder, charged $84 for a single-day ticket and $99 for a day of youth ski school. Today, a lift ticket is $169, ski school $269. Inflation is not that bad.

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Answer is easy - all those families with young kids should move to MN or WI.

:fm:

I about choked when I saw ski school prices at Squaw/Alpine these days. Yet the instructors still get paid shit and the tips are drying up because of the cost of the lessons. I seriously doubt I’d have been a skier if I grew up w this bs

I read the Slate article yesterday. It is a good summary of the current situation but it’s not like poor folks were ever going to be able to downhill ski. It’s really just separating the rich/upper middle class from the regular middle class. Growing up in the 70’s and 80’s downhill skiing was never an option, there’s just no way my parents could have afforded it even in the heyday of “cheap” lift tickets. It was hard enough keeping food for 3 kids on the table. Downhill skiing is always going to be for the relatively well off.

The passes are hardly the cause of soaring real estate prices in resort towns.

The most illuminating passage in the piece--"Apollo Capital Management bought the company that owned Vail and Beaver Creek, two of Colorado’s finest ski areas, out of bankruptcy". The ski business has always been problematic; consolidation with resorts scattered all over the country and world (it usually snows somewhere) and the upfront revenue for passes is probably the only reason resorts are surviving in an increasingly volatile climate. (In the last 2 huge winters in Tahoe resorts were closed by storms more than ever before. It's not just drought and heat that's bad for skiing.)

Meanwhile, there are still affordable small resorts in the north Tahoe area where the less well off can get a taste of skiing. They're not world class but they're better than the 200 vert SE MI hills I learned on. And Sugar Bowl is still an independent decent sized resort with excellent terrain, a ton of snow (but not at the moment) and smaller crowds. (Sugar Bowl was funded in part by Walt Disney and was a favorite hangout of Hollywood royalty. Skiing has always been a sport for the well-to-do.)

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Originally Posted by Flounder

I read the Slate article yesterday. It is a good summary of the current situation but it’s not like poor folks were ever going to be able to downhill ski. It’s really just separating the rich/upper middle class from the regular middle class. Growing up in the 70’s and 80’s downhill skiing was never an option, there’s just no way my parents could have afforded it even in the heyday of “cheap” lift tickets. It was hard enough keeping food for 3 kids on the table. Downhill skiing is always going to be for the relatively well off.

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I’m not so sure about that. Both my wife and I started skiing in the mid to late 70s and we both used ski buses which were pretty cheap (ski club, after school, etc.), to get up to our hills. I was in the Midwest, she skied Snoqualmie Pass. Indeed, my friends who had money went on vacations and stayed in nice places etc. but I had almost no money and figured out a way to do it.
My parents absolutely had no money, and didn’t contribute one penny to any of my ski endeavors.
Anyway, are ski buses to the local hills from the high schools even a thing anymore?

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Originally Posted by plugboots

I’m not so sure about that. Both my wife and I started skiing in the mid to late 70s and we both used ski buses which were pretty cheap (ski club, after school, etc.), to get up to our hills. I was in the Midwest, she skied Snoqualmie Pass. Indeed, my friends who had money went on vacations and stayed in nice places etc. but I had almost no money and figured out a way to do it.
My parents absolutely had no money, and didn’t contribute one penny to any of my ski endeavors.
Anyway, are ski buses to the local hills from the high schools even a thing anymore?

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I agree. There were "cheap" options for most income levels. Obviously if you are struggling to get food on the table, there's probably better options for your money than going skiing. By forcing everything into the "buy in advance and you save more the further out you buy", it makes things much more difficult.

Every year I get an email from a friend in October who's looking to get their kid into skiing. They see most lessons are sold out and ticket prices are crazy. There's no such thing as a time machine so telling them it was cheaper in April/May helps nothing. Guess who doesn't end up skiing this year. And the cycle will repeat.

Taking away the discount Costco/grocery store/gas station ticket options is killing uptake of the sport and will end up killing these companies. Throwing free season passes at 4th/5th graders will not change that.

Over the long run they are banking on less skiers paying ever increasing amounts to keep their profits up. I don't think it's sustainable.

There was an issue with her pass, so my daughter had to buy a day pass this week at Snoqualmie. It was $115 after tax. That's borderline criminal for the terrain and conditions.

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Originally Posted by plugboots

I’m not so sure about that. Both my wife and I started skiing in the mid to late 70s and we both used ski buses which were pretty cheap (ski club, after school, etc.), to get up to our hills. I was in the Midwest, she skied Snoqualmie Pass. Indeed, my friends who had money went on vacations and stayed in nice places etc. but I had almost no money and figured out a way to do it.
My parents absolutely had no money, and didn’t contribute one penny to any of my ski endeavors.
Anyway, are ski buses to the local hills from the high schools even a thing anymore?

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Same story here, but in the late 80's as a high schooler riding county parks & rec sponsored busses to little molehills in VA. $25 included lift ticket, rental, and 4 hr round trip on a school bus with my buddies.

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Originally Posted by Flounder

I read the Slate article yesterday. It is a good summary of the current situation but it’s not like poor folks were ever going to be able to downhill ski. It’s really just separating the rich/upper middle class from the regular middle class. Growing up in the 70’s and 80’s downhill skiing was never an option, there’s just no way my parents could have afforded it even in the heyday of “cheap” lift tickets. It was hard enough keeping food for 3 kids on the table. Downhill skiing is always going to be for the relatively well off.

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Same here. I didn't start skiing until I was 16 and my friends who were 17 could drive to Vernon Valley on the weekends. I had a job and used my own money. I have gotten great value out of the Ikon pass, but I have no idea how Alterra & Epic don't see that the current youth who are the future of their business is going to be non-existent in 10 years with the current business model. Not everyone wants/can to ski 10+ days/year when the kids are young and day ticket prices are insane so they just won't go at all.
Very short sighted, but the CEOs probably get bonuses paid on revenue, so they don't care about 10 years from now. This reminds me of a guy I used to work with that owned a Carvel franchise. His wife ran the store and they made the bulk of their money selling cakes around Holidays. A new CEO came in and his bonus was based on revenue rather than profit. He is the one who started having supermarkets sell the Carvel cakes. Margins were not nearly as good selling through a middle man and he had to hire extra people to make cakes because they had a certain amount they had to sell to supermarkets every month. His profit shrunk, but sales were up big time.