Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

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Originally Posted by babybear

I would like to have a heater installed in my garage. It's an oversized 2 car and is 575 sq ft.
We've used space heaters in the past, but we have other electrical work scheduled, so we want them to add a hardwired garage heater while they're here.

I'm looking at heaters and wondering if I should "size up" a model based on the manufacturer's sq footage recommendation since I live in such a cold climate. (Wyoming)
For instance, this model says it heats 750 sq ft. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Dyna-Glo...00DH/307827996
I'm thinking that would be appropriate for my size garage without maxing it out all the time.
Any insights or recommendations from others in cold places?

The garage is currently poorly insulated but we'll do better insulation in the spring and take the electricity hit for one season.
Our electricity is cheap here.

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When we did an addition in Truckee, we were required to show that the existing furnace could handle the additional space. I used an online calculator that factored in volume of the space, insulation, windows, climate, etc etc to come up with a BTU requirement. I don't have a link but I'm sure you can find it. That would be more accurate than the manufacturer's square footage recommendation.

I'd be concerned trying to run an undersized heater all winter waiting for insulation in the spring. Maybe don't get rid of the space heaters just yet. Maybe someone who knows more can comment.

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Originally Posted by Flounder

We’ve got a 1 1/2 car garage with a heater like you’ve linked to. Ours is pretty well insulated. The biggest issue I have with the setup is that it’s warm around the heater but not the other side of the garage. This causes the heater to shut off because it’s at temp. I counteract this by using fans to move the air. Perhaps instead of upsizing, you may want a couple of heaters given the size of your garage. Planning on a heat pump one of these days for an upgrade.

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The wiring diagram on the one BB linked allowed you to wire in an external T-stat. I wonder if your setup is the same?


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Originally Posted by toast2266

I'm sure this has been covered in here, but what's the current preference on window / door brands? I need one, maybe 2 sliding glass doors. Not looking for the absolute Gucci option - just good bang for the buck. Probably some sort of wood clad vinyl.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

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I like Marvin Elevate for a fiberglass/wood window option. (I have not used the sliding doors though.)
Very durable. Fiberglass exterior can be painted, but certainly doesn't have to be.

Milgard C650 Ultra is another option in that world. Likely cheaper than the Marvin.

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Originally Posted by babybear

I would like to have a heater installed in my garage. It's an oversized 2 car and is 575 sq ft.
We've used space heaters in the past, but we have other electrical work scheduled, so we want them to add a hardwired garage heater while they're here.

I'm looking at heaters and wondering if I should "size up" a model based on the manufacturer's sq footage recommendation since I live in such a cold climate. (Wyoming)
For instance, this model says it heats 750 sq ft. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Dyna-Glo...00DH/307827996
I'm thinking that would be appropriate for my size garage without maxing it out all the time.
Any insights or recommendations from others in cold places?

The garage is currently poorly insulated but we'll do better insulation in the spring and take the electricity hit for one season.
Our electricity is cheap here.

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I installed a 10,000W heater in our garage last year. It's 28' x 25' x 11', located in CO at 7100' (not as cold as where you are), and is reasonably well insulated (cheap-ish insulated doors, R15 walls, R30 ceiling, concrete slab with no insulation). I NEVER run it at full power, and can easily keep it at a comfortable temp at the half power (5,000W) setting. For what that's worth.

BB - get a heat pump. I run one in bondurant with no issues. You also get AC.

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Originally Posted by toast2266

I'm sure this has been covered in here, but what's the current preference on window / door brands? I need one, maybe 2 sliding glass doors. Not looking for the absolute Gucci option - just good bang for the buck. Probably some sort of wood clad vinyl.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

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We recently used Replacement by Andersen to replace some rotted Pellas. I like the material--a proprietary composite. (We got maybe 20 years out of the wood Pellas before they started to rot. Meanwhile the original 95 year old windows are fine.) I don't know if Andersen qualifies as Gucci. Ours are casements, not cheap.

^^Rotted Pellas were metal exterior?

All of my Anderson windows and sliding doors need replacement because after 30 years, there is some sort of foggy shit going on on the uncleanable interior of the double panes.

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Originally Posted by nickwm21

The wiring diagram on the one BB linked allowed you to wire in an external T-stat. I wonder if your setup is the same?

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Interesting. Mine’s not quite as nice as what BB linked but I’ll take a peek at it. Probably next year for the heat pump so I can also live with it for this winter. Really just for washing/waxing cars. Want the heat pump because it’s also my finish shop for wood working and with retirement in the not too distance future, I’ll be spending more time out there. Heat pump will be nice for humidity control in the summer for spraying.

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Originally Posted by babybear

A few mags have been to my garage.....we have a lot of stuff in there :D

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The ski and bike collection is fucking mindblowing.

Any Line Fans would lose their shit...

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

I like Marvin Elevate for a fiberglass/wood window option. (I have not used the sliding doors though.)
Very durable. Fiberglass exterior can be painted, but certainly doesn't have to be.

Milgard C650 Ultra is another option in that world. Likely cheaper than the Marvin.

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Thanks - I'll look into those.

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Originally Posted by tuco

^^Rotted Pellas were metal exterior?

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No, just wood.

I just installed a bunch of lower end Anderson vinyl in the house I'm building(not for me). Yesterday we installed the big slider and I was less than impressed. I've liked the Milgard I've installed and typically the futher up the line you go the better but not always. For me it comes down to how the frames are. Lots of lower end vinyl have lots of play and are sloppy. Of course a good installer/carpenter can make a difference but you can only do so much. You can also save a bit of cash and do vinyl and case it out yourself however you like.

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Vinal trim on my sliding door was loose when I moved in, the renter had taped some weatehrstripping on the loose part with packing tape, the window store wasnt any help, I looked at it for 5 min slammed it with the heel of my hand and its been perfect !

thanks guys for all the recs- so many alternatives that I must regroup and do more research on heat pumps etc.
NBA - holler when you come up to ski here and maybe we can combine a ski day with lift talk of heat pumps and off grid homes.

:::: I agree that we are doing it backwards with the heater and then better insulation later but my house is small ~1100 sq ft so I have dreamt of having that extra 575 sq ft potential for years - or rather we utilize it 3 seasons a year but 1 season is too mf cold.
We do park 1 vehicle in there now (mine, for the lady of the manor always gets the garage [emoji16]) but I wfh so generally less to and fro

https://hvacdirect.com/brands/brands...ElfB-jlZVPPOkG

The Hot Dawg Heaters are by far the most popular garage heaters for new construction in The Ice Box of the Nation (tm). Around here, the gas fired appliance always wins.

Also, code does not allow the same force air unit to service the garage because of fire separation regs (which is also for CO).

Now do you intend to use the heated space? Heat of 45deg. all the time, turn heat on to work in the garage, heat to 65+ and use as indoor space? Shit all maters in terms of what makes most sense.

Dow many exterior walls and what is the existing insulation?

Babybear - I did a fair amount of insulation this summer. The owner was freaking out about how noticeably different it was and the temp regulation was so good. That's always nice.

I'd be happy to help you two and the pets get that garage dialed in.

Porsche Beijing.

for posterity.

+1 for hot dawg.

You could do a wall heater. But in an open garage space a space heater on the ceiling makes more sense. Used to be called modine. But the hot dawg is a smaller cheaper version.
But it only makes sense if you have gas. Or propane.

Otherwise a single ductless split head. Did one for $1,200 a few years ago. Problem is they don’t heat fast. And they aren’t efficient at low temps.

PS. Side rant. This anti Nat gas thing is bullshit. We’re shipping it to Europe. And it’s a free byproduct of oil production. And it burns clean.

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

https://hvacdirect.com/brands/brands...ElfB-jlZVPPOkG

The Hot Dawg Heaters are by far the most popular garage heaters for new construction in The Ice Box of the Nation (tm). Around here, the gas fired appliance always wins.

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1000's of fire stations across the country agree. Had the bay doors open for the last 10 minutes but now you want to do truck checks at a cozy 60 degrees? No problem, give it a few minutes.

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Originally Posted by Core Shot

PS. Side rant. This anti Nat gas thing is bullshit. And it’s a free byproduct of oil production.

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Calling BS on that.
https://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-...ural-resources

TLDR: According to the U.S. Energy Department, up to 95 percent of new wells drilled today are hydraulically fractured, accounting for two-thirds of total U.S. marketed natural gas production and about half of U.S. crude oil production.

Fracking is the dirtiest thing going.

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Originally Posted by Ski220

Calling BS on that.
https://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-...ural-resources

TLDR: According to the U.S. Energy Department, up to 95 percent of new wells drilled today are hydraulically fractured, accounting for two-thirds of total U.S. marketed natural gas production and about half of U.S. crude oil production.

Fracking is the dirtiest thing going.

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Core Shot being completely wrong about yet another thing:

https://gifdb.com/images/high/fight-...mey2f2a4e5.gif

I had a new window installed yesterday in a bathroom and either prying out the old window or framing in the new cracked the stucco. This is 100 year old original stucco, not the newer lightweight type. I'd like to get in front of this before water gets in freezes and it becomes a bigger repair. I was thinking of mashing in some paintable exterior caulk really well and then just painting over? South facing wall, under an eave but can get wet.

Something like this? Mold/UV/Weather resistant? https://www.dap.com/products-project...RoCkyUQAvD_BwE

Attachment 505482

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Originally Posted by babybear

thanks guys for all the recs- so many alternatives that I must regroup and do more research on heat pumps etc.
NBA - holler when you come up to ski here and maybe we can combine a ski day with lift talk of heat pumps and off grid homes.

:::: I agree that we are doing it backwards with the heater and then better insulation later but my house is small ~1100 sq ft so I have dreamt of having that extra 575 sq ft potential for years - or rather we utilize it 3 seasons a year but 1 season is too mf cold.
We do park 1 vehicle in there now (mine, for the lady of the manor always gets the garage [emoji16]) but I wfh so generally less to and fro

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I had an electric wall mount in my garage. It was undersized, but was fine for my needs. I just wanted the chill off to do work...not computer work, like bike, ski, carpentry shit. I did insulate the whole thing, but it was really the overhead door that seemed to be the issue for heat loss. I never had a good solution for that. I used electric because it was quick and easy on all fronts.

https://www.marleymep.com/products/b...w-unit-heater/

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A general observation on retrofitting insulation as someone who may also go down this path - there is so much hand-waving BS to sift through.

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Originally Posted by babybear

:::: I agree that we are doing it backwards with the heater and then better insulation later but my house is small ~1100 sq ft so I have dreamt of having that extra 575 sq ft potential for years - or rather we utilize it 3 seasons a year but 1 season is too mf cold.

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thing about an immediate upgrade of insulation/ HE furnace is I started saving $$$$ Immediatly so I was saving 1200$ a year with a 1000 sq ft house

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Originally Posted by skaredshtles

Core Shot being completely wrong about yet another thing:

https://gifdb.com/images/high/fight-...mey2f2a4e5.gif

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https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/ng_move_expc_s1_a.htm

We export Nat gas
Lots of it.

PS. Ever heard of a peaker? You know the Nat gas fueled generators that lets you run your AC in the city on a hot night?

PPS. Fracking is ugly. And bad. Mkay

bb for sure. tbh if you are just looking to heat occasionally heat pump is not it. If you were to keep it at constant temp heat pump is def it. Certainly is it for house with cheap ass electricity rates in jackson and the green power coming from bonneville.

coreshot - i've prob posted this before but if we are going to talk energy production this site rules:

https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/US-NW-PACE/24h

Shows all real time production by grid.

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Originally Posted by Mazderati

A general observation on retrofitting insulation as someone who may also go down this path - there is so much hand-waving BS to sift through.

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I'm not sure what you mean exactly, but depending on the age of your place or any previous leaks or whatever, it may or may not be worth it. Ceiling is typically "easy" if you have access and biggest bang for the buck. Retro insulation is a suck job for sure.

Adding attic insulation and improving ventilation will pay off quick. So will running around with a caulk gun to seal windows at interiors and exteriors. If you have forced air with accessible ducts in the basement/crawlspace, sealing all the joints, elbows and takeoffs with mastic is a cheap and easy way to increase HVAC efficiency and save money. If you want to spend a little more money and have fun (or scare yourself) you can buy a little Flir IR imagining attachment for you phone for around $150 and it will show all your air leaks and insulation issues.

The heat pump is interesting but upon further look, it seems like overkill for this situation. But I liked learning about how that product works, so appreciate the suggestion.
Thanks for the anecdotes on the electric garage heaters - I think I was overthinking it- the model slightly oversized for my garage sq footage should be fine.
I’m not looking to keep it home temps, more like 45*ish consistently and then the ability to get it up to 55* or so before using the ski bench or weight bench. Taking the chill off enough to actually want to be out there.
Djongo yes thank you- maybe wrangle you in this spring.
Garage help for the Porsche Beijing [emoji23]

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Originally Posted by NBABUCKS1

bb for sure. tbh if you are just looking to heat occasionally heat pump is not it. If you were to keep it at constant temp heat pump is def it. Certainly is it for house with cheap ass electricity rates in jackson and the green power coming from bonneville.

coreshot - i've prob posted this before but if we are going to talk energy production this site rules:

https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/US-NW-PACE/24h

Shows all real time production by grid.

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That’s a cool link. Thx.

PS. In a past life I negotiated trading agreements with Enron. Dicks. Arrogant fucks.
Forced congestion into California after they had a forward short position on supply. I was delighted when they tanked.
PPS. The team I was negotiating with from cantor Fitzgerald died on 9/11. That sucked.

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Originally Posted by babybear

The heat pump is interesting but upon further look, it seems like overkill for this situation. But I liked learning about how that product works, so appreciate the suggestion.
Thanks for the anecdotes on the electric garage heaters - I think I was overthinking it- the model slightly oversized for my garage sq footage should be fine.
I’m not looking to keep it home temps, more like 45*ish consistently and then the ability to get it up to 55* or so before using the ski bench or weight bench. Taking the chill off enough to actually want to be out there.
Djongo yes thank you- maybe wrangle you in this spring.
Garage help for the Porsche Beijing [emoji23]

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I've been geeking out on the cheap Chinese diesel heaters lately and a lot of people are using those to heat garages and stuff.

We have considered doing the same thing you are but just haven't bit the bullet yet. Our garage is stuffed to the brim and insulating will be a pretty big and annoying project.

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Originally Posted by jackstraw

I'm not sure what you mean exactly, but depending on the age of your place or any previous leaks or whatever, it may or may not be worth it. Ceiling is typically "easy" if you have access and biggest bang for the buck. Retro insulation is a suck job for sure.

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Spray foam companies saying spray foam is the best. Cellulose companies saying cellulose is the best. It seems like a lot of companies do not consider the longer-term, bigger picture. Basically, when you're a hammer, everything is a nail.

While spray foam can be magical in the right situation, it is a bit of a only-if-you-have-to product these days

When it comes to building science Design & Installation > Products

If you are not naturally skeptical of the sales angle, that's on you

For ya'll talking about insulated garages, what is the as built? Attached/detached? Drywall or none? How is the electrical run? What about the fire separation to the living space?

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Originally Posted by Mazderati

Spray foam companies saying spray foam is the best. Cellulose companies saying cellulose is the best. It seems like a lot of companies do not consider the longer-term, bigger picture. Basically, when you're a hammer, everything is a nail.

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Ah, yeah. Seems like spray foam would be ideal for new homes, but less green than cellulose. And assuming cellulose would be easier for retro installation, but idk. Labor is probably the biggest expense and any insulation you choose will most likely give a good ROI long term, so I'd probably go with the cheapest bottom line.

As someone that recently went from shitty old wood garage doors to steel insulated ones - that alone makes a world of difference.

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Originally Posted by Mazderati

Spray foam companies saying spray foam is the best. Cellulose companies saying cellulose is the best. It seems like a lot of companies do not consider the longer-term, bigger picture. Basically, when you're a hammer, everything is a nail.

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I thot I seen something recently that spray fpoam is nasty stuff and don't you need to pay an aplication company so you can't DIY ??

I did my own blown-in-cellulose, I blew it over the existing 6" pink FG batts so it was pretty easy, you blow it in up there over everything so it fills all gaps,

there is a few days of easy/ dirty prep but the actulay job took half a day

while you are up there make sure to wear a mask, the tyvek overalls taped at the arms and legs, wear a helmet so you don't get a nail in the head, spring or fall is the best time becuz it will be fucking hot up there

go up a day ahead of time ahead of time to put baffles inbetween all the roof 2x4's which keeps your gable vents clear, build all the hatch/ vent openings up to at least 18", mark a stick at 18" ( gives you R50) and go round all over your attic marking 18" on the joists with a marker pen so you know how much product you are blowing and where so now you are ready to blow baby blow


the local building supply where i bought the bags of cellulose lent me a free m/c but i needed a hopper bitch to load it, my buddy needed a bitch to do his job so we loaded each other's hoppers

thats it, I forget the exact #'s but I was instantly saving > 100 $ a month, there was a rebate program both federal/ provincial which paid for both the insulation and HE furnace instal but it was awesume and it all got paid for

the program also paid for some weatehr stripping but the funace and insulation were by far the lions share of the savings

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Originally Posted by jackstraw

Seems like spray foam would be ideal for new homes, but less green than cellulose. And assuming cellulose would be easier for retro installation, but idk.

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spray foam better for retro fit, but only in appropriate climate zones when used at all
& way less green than cellulose

What's the cheapest/easiest option for low-pitch roofing?

My garage/breezeway is 1:12 pitch, currently has multiple layers of rolled asphalt and it's leaking horribly, wanting to pull it all off this spring, replace a bunch of sheathing, and put on a much better product.

Thinking about metal standing seam, Menard's has decent looking stuff for like $1300 plus underlayment and edges, not sure if there's other things I should be looking at. Area is about 800square feet in an L- pattern