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Don't know about the guidance, but ejecta from initial hits might make it more difficult to target subsequent rounds?Quote:
Originally Posted by MultiVerse
Seems like you'd want to throw a few rounds of a very fast/brisant charges to shatter as much rock as possible, but I guess we do that with slower explosives and brute energy, like fracs in the oil patch?
What’s the showcase showdown bid for how much that expedition cost us taxpayers??
About half what we'd ordinarily send to Gaza?
12 GBUs at 3mil a pop = 36 millionQuote:
Originally Posted by mcski
25 tomahawks from a sub at ~2mil a pop = 50 million
Delivery logistics (fuel, maintenance, wear and tear on all plans and subs involved) = ~5mil
Total cost= 90million dollars.
Damn, war is expensive.
Chump change compared to building a B2 or moving a carrier group to the Middle East.
I mean, I don't see the cost of this particular set of raids as an argument for or against.
Possibly more difficult. And yeah, curious to find out how long of a delay between impacts. Satellite images show the bomb penetrations were right next to each other. As precise as it gets without one arrow hitting the bullseye followed by the the next one splitting it in half.Quote:
Originally Posted by highangle
Probably agenda driven, but FWIW Iranian officials are now claiming major damage to nuclear facilities. Also, too, let's not forget the Iranian nuke program wasn't the only fatality here:
https://i.postimg.cc/nrfKHHtN/lets-no-lose-site.png
FYI there were 12 bombs dropped, and 6 holes. Robinhood aint got nothing on the US military industrial complex.Quote:
Originally Posted by MultiVerse
With our military its always kinda hard to understand the true cost. B2s do training flights and have regular maintenance, the folks involved in the strike were getting paid whether or not the attack took place, were the weapons used older models that needed to be cleared out anyways for newer inventory? etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by dan_pdx
CE: the B-2's primary purpose is to penetrate near-peer Russian and Chinese IADS and interceptors, unescorted, without F-22s for air superiority, without EF-18Gs and F-35s for SEAD/DEAD, and engage in precision nuclear strikes against hardened or mobile targets. A primary thought was targeting political-military leadership in a second strike that may be repositioning during the sortie. The message was to the enemy leadership: "if you start a nuclear war with us, no matter what kind of advantage you think you have, no matter how even or uneven you think it is, no matter what preparations you made to survive, wherever you run, in whatever hole you crawl, the sky above you will lose pixels and we will dig you out with the heat of a thousand suns. So don't start one."
If Iran is judged to be unalterably headed toward nuclear breakout, then yesk we should have done a bolt-from-the-blue strike. Why? Because true surprise is key. Risk? We can sure as fuck do that strike with no losses using a TLAM barrage and F-22s, F-35s, and EA-18Gs in the strike package supporting B-2s against the third tier air and second tier IADS power that was Iran. The goal should have been maximum destruction of nuclear infrastructure without concern for collateral contamination. We could have even coordinated it with the opening strikes by Israel. Instead, we telegraphed for a week that we might do it while Israeli strikes make Iran take it very very seriously... serious enough to move shit and seal entrances. That may have seriously decreased the level of degredation that we were trying to achieve.
CAgrown: The price of suffering other aggressions of a nuclear terrorist state? What is the price of a nuke going off in one of our cities or in an allies city? And the price of the war it creates? Those answers make using a few dozen millioni in bombs seem cheap as fuck.
Or if you want a starker comparison, we spent around $1B just shooting down Iran's missiles fired by Houthis while they were terrorizing and closing off the Red Sea.
GPS+inertial guidance is pretty good, but I'd guess the latter gets Real good when the bomb is that heavy, so GPS and coms to the aircraft would have to be jammed at a very high altitude to do any good.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
Accuracy of +/-10-15% of the bombs' diameter seems like it ought to be good enough to guide the second one into the first hole, but the difference between 10% and 1% in terms of KE absorbed early on might create a lot of variability in a second penetration.
MOPstrike!Quote:
Originally Posted by MultiVerse
Im not arguing whether it was worth it or not... We don't know yet. Probably wont truly know for a few years. I was just commenting on how a quick strike package cost 100million dollars, and how war, especially modern war is really fucking expensive. I wonder how much Israel's air campaign on Iran cost?Quote:
Originally Posted by summit
the cost of air defense systems compared to the cost of the rockets/missiles/drones they are intercepting is a whole other can of worms... Iron dome is fairly cost effective, but damn the antimissile defense on our Navy boats is really not when they are defending against discard bin houthi weaponry.
How much did Irans former nuke program cost?
How many Palestinians could they have fed with that money?
How many Americans could have been fed?
Can’t Israel remimburse from some of the Billions we already give them every year?
It’s not a talking point and it’s certainly not settled that the Iranian nuclear program can still produce a bomb quickly. But IF that’s the case then it seems this was a massive blunder and we are potentially looking at significant escalation. What are the options if Iran is still racing towards a bomb and these strikes didn’t significantly hinder them? The only three I see are:Quote:
Originally Posted by MultiVerse
Continue strikes almost indefinitely to prevent a bomb
Regime change to prevent a bomb
The world has to coexist with a nuclear Iran
Hopefully Iran has its tail tucked and will agree to shutter its nuclear program but I’m not holding my breath.
Russia talking about giving Iran a nuke is a lovely way to imply their dismay at American Imperialism and highlight the world's need for a multi-polar world where Russia can safeguard their interests against the big, bad Americans.
Summit went over most of the ways that wouldn't go well, but one way they could do it would be to enrich the uranium and give that to Iran instead of traceable plutonium.
But that's if they actually wanted to. A more plausible reason for making those public statements is that in private they're promising Iran that if they stay quiet now and up the Shahed production they'll have their own bomb in a few years--even if Russia has to help. Since it's Russia, they'll just reneg anyway (maybe offer the next Ayatollah the chance to host nukes like Belarus), but they needed to be believable up front. Hence Medvedev's comments--the day before the truce.
The west could also invade Iran.Quote:
Originally Posted by neufox47
The reason why the Islamic Republic was racing towards a nuclear bomb now is because Israel systematically dismantled Qassem Soleimani's strategy. This is what Soleimani told Iran’s generals three months before his death:Quote:
Originally Posted by neurofox
“I have assembled for you six armies outside Iran and I have created a corridor 1,500 kilometers long and 1,000 kilometers wide, all the way to the shores of the Mediterranean. Any enemy that decides to fight against the Islamic Revolution, and against the sacred regime of the Islamic Republic of Iran, will have to go through these six armies. It won’t be able to do so.”
Israel went on to withstand mass slaughter, extortion, tunnels, rockets, internal displacements, and relentless international pressure—to then defeat Iran’s 'six armies' proxies. Soleimani's six armies Quds Force is an expeditionary army. With that army in disarray Iran was falling backing on enriching uranium.
Any nuclear deal ignoring that reality by allowing Iran to keep the ability to build a bomb in exchange for a promise they wouldn’t, would be useless. As a result the world is a safer place today.
Whats with the Iranian talking points?
Mission Accomplished!
Whats with the Iranian talking points?
Mission Accomplished!
Cono gets bonus points to spend on “Daddy” swag if he spams the forum
Self flagilation for personal satisfaction is a concept I will never be able to comprehend