If only there was something we could do...

Suicide Prevention in the Israeli Military

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According to the results of a recent evaluation, there was a 57 percent drop in the suicide rate among the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) following implementation of the IDF Suicide Prevention Program in 2006. The authors suggested that reducing access to weapons when not essential, such as when soldiers were on leave, may account for the program’s success, given that 84 percent of suicides by Israeli soldiers were found to be associated with firearms.

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Originally Posted by SumJongGuy

Suicide Prevention in the Israeli Military

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I think you’ve done it. You’ve finally found the piece of evidence that will convince Leroy to change his mind.


/s

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Originally Posted by mcski

No one said solved. You’re just another obstinate thread cunter that thrives on red herrings and straw men arguments

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oh reeeeary?

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Originally Posted by ex-powderbroker

shut the fuck up moron. people are killing themselves and others at horrific rates and adding friction to procuring guns solves both issues. stop being a selfish contrarian asshole when it’s completely obvious to anyone that doesn’t have a gun fetish.

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Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong

^^^This.

Especially the ‘shut the fuck up moron’ part.

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I have presented no straw men. I don't need to distort anyone elses arguments into weaker versions. I'm quite happy to seek out the strongest possible version of the arguments I disagree with. I'm also not sure how anything I said could be a red herring. I admit perhaps me pointing out the assertion that suicide would be 'solved' by limiting access to guns could perhaps be viewed as a red herring. I mean, I could assume he wasn't stupid enough to actually mean what he said, that 'solving' the problem is really that simple, and he meant more like a 'partial solution' as in, an improvement and I'm just nitpicking his word choice, but in reality, it seems like theres a lot of magical thinking in this thread where all sorts of societal problems just disappear with more gun control. Especially since the statement in question wasn't even isolated, but 'this'ed' and that kind of magical thinking seems pretty prevalent in this outrage pornfest of a thread.

You guys seem really fragile and easily set off when anyone presents any sort of counterarguments to your magical thinking. Kind of seems like that means something, no?

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Originally Posted by CarlMega

I, too, had a similar change of thought. As one matures, the importance of convenience in getting what you want, when you want is diminished and, hopefully, you begin to weigh what benefits of society - making efforts to leave it better than you found it. This used to be the virtue of wisdom and experience. These days, it's hard to expect the nobility of self-restraint and that's sad.

Regardless, being cavalier about one's responsibility is an abhorrent quality. That's a low-standard IMHO and yet I see poor personal conduct in many of gun-fetish crowd. Reckless. What bothers me is that there is critical mass of people who are so entrenched in their 'rights' that they dismiss responsibility - and that's too far of a leap to 'yes, you are a responsible gun owner but you're going to need to take one for Team USA and put up with some constraints and delays because there's a bad element that is simply fucking it all up and a danger to society'. That selflessness is rarer than it should be.

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I think its actually short vs long sightedness. You see temporary safety, but rights never get given back by the government once they're gone, and on a long enough timeline, the lack of rights being respected by the government and the degradation of our system of checks and balances becomes a liability to safety and the public good.

STRAW MAN, MORON

Had comments from the public on one of our projects which involved connecting a cul-de-sac through into the neighboring main arterial street. One of the complaints came from a resident who said that through streets have much higher rates of crime and that as a widow she felt especially vulnerable so she would be forced to spend her SS checks on guns (plural) to protect her. This is in a wealthy suburb with crazy low crime rates. Merica!

Just listened to a podcast that argued that the reason we don't have sane gun laws is because there are too many members of the Supreme Court watched Gunsmoke as kids. Like me. I agreed with that. Add that the SCOTUS has an above average number of entitled morans.

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Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

and on a long enough timeline

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I'd like to hear what the long timeline says about the relevancy of small arms, firing projectiles propelled from the rapid expansion of gases. Or what that long view says of...[check notes]... societal collapse, loss of law and order where individuals must fed for themselves thus....GUNS!

The long, arc of human achievement has always bent towards cooperative civilization building institutions, systems and laws that provide cross-cutting benefit. The militant-individualists who refuse to play in the one defining advantage of humanness (civilization) because of their FUD are the ones who are short sighted and undermining stability and progress.

Childishly cling to your small arms despite ample evidence to societal harm. Hide under the sheets worrying about some bizarre post-society future as if effective civilization and people can be separated.

It doesn’t matter.

You could come up with 100% ironclad evidence that some moderate gun laws would eliminate all gun deaths completely and Leroy still would ignore that and just say that wars kill many more people, and that he needs his personal weapons to prevent government tyranny. It’s pointless.

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Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong

It doesn’t matter.

You could come up with 100% ironclad evidence that some moderate gun laws would eliminate all gun deaths completely and Leroy still would ignore that and just say that wars kill many more people, and that he needs his personal weapons to prevent government tyranny. It’s pointless.

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I mean... it does provide *some* amusement seeing people CONTINUING to engage that twat. :D

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Originally Posted by skaredshtles

I mean... it does provide *some* amusement seeing people CONTINUING to engage that twat. :D

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Yep! Nailed it, I check in from time to time just to see what his latest blathering is about.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

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Originally Posted by ex-powderbroker

STRAW MAN, MORON

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Yes. Saying that gun control measures wouldn’t completely eliminate suicide so there shouldn’t be any gun control measures is a classic straw man approach.

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Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong

It’s pointless.

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I know it. Yet, sometimes I engage. It's a vice.

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Originally Posted by CarlMega

I'd like to hear what the long timeline says about the relevancy of small arms, firing projectiles propelled from the rapid expansion of gases. Or what that long view says of...[check notes]... societal collapse, loss of law and order where individuals must fed for themselves thus....GUNS!

The long, arc of human achievement has always bent towards cooperative civilization building institutions, systems and laws that provide cross-cutting benefit. The militant-individualists who refuse to play in the one defining advantage of humanness (civilization) because of their FUD are the ones who are short sighted and undermining stability and progress.

Childishly cling to your small arms despite ample evidence to societal harm. Hide under the sheets worrying about some bizarre post-society future as if effective civilization and people can be separated.

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Stop quoting him please.

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Originally Posted by CarlMega

I know it. Yet, sometimes I engage. It's a vice.

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I get it.

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Originally Posted by CarlMega

I know it. Yet, sometimes I engage. It's a vice.

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I get it. But resist. Do it for the children...

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Originally Posted by CarlMega

I'd like to hear what the long timeline says about the relevancy of small arms, firing projectiles propelled from the rapid expansion of gases. Or what that long view says of...[check notes]... societal collapse, loss of law and order where individuals must fed for themselves thus....GUNS!

The long, arc of human achievement has always bent towards cooperative civilization building institutions, systems and laws that provide cross-cutting benefit. The militant-individualists who refuse to play in the one defining advantage of humanness (civilization) because of their FUD are the ones who are short sighted and undermining stability and progress.

Childishly cling to your small arms despite ample evidence to societal harm. Hide under the sheets worrying about some bizarre post-society future as if effective civilization and people can be separated.

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IN the last 100 years, governments have killed more civilians than civilians have killed each other. The uighers are getting genocided right now. Its not some absurdly long timeline.

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

Stop quoting him please.

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Do not disrupt the echo chamber, people become unhinged.

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Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper

Yes. Saying that gun control measures wouldn’t completely eliminate suicide so there shouldn’t be any gun control measures is a classic straw man approach.

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No. It wasn't a distortion. It was pointing out what people in this thread are actually saying. There was no need to distort it. They were actual statements. Do you know what strawman means?

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Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong

It doesn’t matter.

You could come up with 100% ironclad evidence that some moderate gun laws would eliminate all gun deaths completely and Leroy still would ignore that and just say that wars kill many more people, and that he needs his personal weapons to prevent government tyranny. It’s pointless.

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But that isn't the case. No such evidence exists.

For the dissembling one.

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A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction.[1] One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".

The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and the subsequent refutation of that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the opponent's proposition.[2][3] Straw man arguments have been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly regarding highly charged emotional subjects.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...6e993ca2ed.jpg

Probably could just post this every day

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Originally Posted by bennymac

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...6e993ca2ed.jpg

Probably could just post this every day

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triple any other country
just idiotic

What's uniquely amazing is the contorted thought processes that motivate the 2A crowd:
fear of a tyrannical woke liberal world that will provoke civil war, but the only saber rattling is coming from the crowd that advocates guns as the last guide rail before total destruction of the american way, despite zero government tyrants & zero citizen defensive actions to protect democracy. The exclamation point on this irony is the Jan6 event & the various militia actions in the news (ie, targeting Gov Widmer)

Death by firearm became the leading cause of death of children in 2020 (among BOTH children between the ages of one and 18, AND ages one and 19, based on several analyses of CDC data, the leading source for data regarding causes of death [link]), and yet that stupid statistic does not rise to the level of being worth fixing when remedies exist.

it's an own goal all day every day & these voters lean into it over & over -- it's a nonsensical religion at this point

and the dems continue to play by the rules by waiting on a storm surge of voter irritation to push these issues correctly through the channels, instead of the machiavellian republican maneuvers demonstrated most clearly under McConnell's reign in the Senate & state houses around the country limiting abortion & voting (gerrymandering)

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Originally Posted by bennymac

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...6e993ca2ed.jpg

Probably could just post this every day

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But we’re different and exceptional!!!!


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Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper

For the dissembling one.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

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I didn't replace anything. I directly quoted someone and responded to what they actually said. Are you gaslighting?