If only there was something we could do...

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Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark

So I have to remember who I fucked in the last 2 years to be legal? That is fucked. Ms. WHATHERFACE 1, WHATSHERFACE 8? Probably a virgin, so he's not actually lying.

And that kid has plenty of time for the waiting period, which he did have before he lit shit up, no documented history accessible of any mental shit, and could waltz through that. So what progress are you actually making? None.

In Canadian: So Sorry. People are going to do stupid shit. Get over it.

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LMAO it's not like the government knows or cares about who you've been banging in the last 2 years. Do you even know what conjugal means? Hint: It's not fucking someone in a trailer in a prison yard.

From the actual application:

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Conjugal partner includes spouses and common law partners and all
other persons with whom you live or have lived in a similar relationship
within the last 2 years.

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Canada has a few hoops to jump through but basically anybody can get a gun that isn't fucked up, which becomes evident when they look at your history AND you're forced to take a course led by someone looking out for this kind of shit. My buddy's got some land a little north of me and has about 30 of them. His dad and his buddy are the least gun-people I'd ever think of, and even they both own handguns they use at the local club.

In Canadian: Sorry to say but our system fucking rocks. Yours is broken. Get over it. Sent my kids on the bus this morning to school quite comfortably, which I can guaranfuckingtee isn't happening in the USA right now.

Canadas system makes way too much sense for the US of A. Was just reading this: https://www.reuters.com/world/how-ca...gs-2022-05-26/

Tldr; gun regs work in other countries.

I mean, here's the actual application, that you fill out after taking an approved gun safety course. I would imagine someone interested in shooting up a public place may have a difficult time with filling out some of these fields. Note that the signatures you're required to obtain are all plastered with "if you think this person shouldn't have a gun call this number" types of things. There are plenty of checkmarks to obtain before you can get guns here - but for 'normal' people it's all just a formality.

Anyway, it seems to work well enough and as always something is better than nothing. No system will ever be perfect.

https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/wam/media...e46aae9252.pdf

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Originally Posted by paulster2626

I mean, here's the actual application, that you fill out after taking an approved gun safety course. I would imagine someone interested in shooting up a public place may have a difficult time with filling out some of these fields. Note that the signatures you're required to obtain are all plastered with "if you think this person shouldn't have a gun call this number" types of things. There are plenty of checkmarks to obtain before you can get guns here - but for 'normal' people it's all just a formality.

Anyway, it seems to work well enough and as always something is better than nothing. No system will ever be perfect.

https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/wam/media...e46aae9252.pdf

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Sure, forms are nice but imagine how simple it will be to overhaul the mental health system for a country of 340M that didn't want to subsidize physical healthcare, and then attach that new system to red flag laws everyone can agree on. Oh, wait.

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Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark

So I have to remember who I fucked in the last 2 years to be legal?

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Self-certification begets a pretty good recco, I’d imagine

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Originally Posted by paulster2626

I mean, here's the actual application, that you fill out after taking an approved gun safety course. I would imagine someone interested in shooting up a public place may have a difficult time with filling out some of these fields. Note that the signatures you're required to obtain are all plastered with "if you think this person shouldn't have a gun call this number" types of things. There are plenty of checkmarks to obtain before you can get guns here - but for 'normal' people it's all just a formality.

Anyway, it seems to work well enough and as always something is better than nothing. No system will ever be perfect.

https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/wam/media...e46aae9252.pdf

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This form and process seems entirely reasonable to me. To paraphrase you, people who aren't fucked wouldn't have a problem being approved.

“Treasury was heavily involved. We were, after all, "the money". And the Bureau of ATF was a pretty big component of federal law enforcement. So we went on a listening tour, asking people over and over again what they thought would actually reduce crime, and what they thought would actually reduce the causes of crime.

One thing that became clear, from rural sheriffs and deputies and big-city police departments alike, was that the cops were starting to get scared. They were getting scared that they were going to run into bad guys with military-grade amounts of automatic firepower, and get killed. There was unified buy-in from law enforcement nationwide that, while people really did disagree about "gun control", an assault weapons ban made sense.

We added it to the bill, and we held enough of the Democratic caucuses to push the Clinton crime bill, with all of its constructive and destructive elements, across the finish line.

And then Newt Gingrich became Speaker of the House.”

https://braddelong.substack.com/p/th...pjFUzuDLls&s=r

This private citizen seems to have done a better job than the police in Texas in preventing mass shooting escalation. Strange that the media hasn't given it more coverage (bias/narrative?):

https://wchstv.com/news/local/victim...eston-shooting

Carl, this is what frustrates me so much. There are so many reasonable things that could make a difference (many reasonable solutions are mentioned here), and instead, we are forced to listen to talking points from pols in the pockets of the NRA referencing either ambiguous and hard to fix things like 'mental health' or expensive and unlikely solutions like 'hardening' public schools.

Don't make perfect the enemy of the much improved:

Legislate 21 to buy
Make background checks universal and better (with Obama's mental health checks)
Enforce a mandatory waiting period

I had to wait 14 months for a new fucking fridge, people can't wait a month for a gun?

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Originally Posted by sirbumpsalot

This private citizen seems to have done a better job than the police in Texas in preventing mass shooting escalation. Strange that the media hasn't given it more coverage (bias/narrative?):

https://wchstv.com/news/local/victim...eston-shooting

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Maybe because one GGWAG anecdote is worth about as much as referencing one murder in NYC and it is very clear that more guns means more firearm fatalities?

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Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark

So I have to remember who I fucked in the last 2 years to be legal? That is fucked. Ms. WHATHERFACE 1, WHATSHERFACE 8? Probably a virgin, so he's not actually lying.

And that kid has plenty of time for the waiting period, which he did have before he lit shit up, no documented history accessible of any mental shit, and could waltz through that. So what progress are you actually making? None.

In Canadian: So Sorry. People are going to do stupid shit. Get over it.

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Except his Grandparents would have objected and been notified because he lived with them. So it would have stopped it. And, it sounds like few people thought this kid having a gun was a good idea so he would have had a hard time getting two references. Finally, he wouldn’t have been able to buy AR’s with 33 round magazines. He would have been going in with a much much less effective killing weapon.

Fun fact, standard police vests do NOTHING to stop .223 rounds out of AR15s. We can expect the same "NOPE" response from them every time this happens for the foreseeable future.. They will run the other way and wait for folks with true military armor vests (like the one the Buffalo shooter wore) to show up. That's probably why they didn't go in to the school and confront the shooter and instead called for federal help..

Not only won't they go in, they won't get fired:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ck/5194831002/

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Originally Posted by ex-powderbroker

Carl, this is what frustrates me so much. There are so many reasonable things that could make a difference

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Me too. I don't know what the tangible rules should be but more abstractly, these are the deficiencies/problem areas I observe:

* very little controls or checks to prevent desperate or people in crisis or unqualified or those who pose a danger to themselves/others from attaining virtually any firearm immediately
* institutional & cultural, ummm, frameworks that under-emphasize responsibility for control, care, use and conduct around personal firearms and further, conflict resolution expectations while armed
* inadequate means to de-arm a person who becomes 'in crisis' or poses a danger to themselves and others

I have a personal tragedy experience where a dear friend died and that situation transcended all three^. I still don't know to process it but I can say that the US apparatus around firearms was completely inept in addressing / preventing it.

Well, the conjugal partner requirement is clearly a roadblock for the tacti-cool incels....
but it is actually brilliant to keep those dangerous antisocial freaks from being armed.

Armed Texans standing around waiting for the feds to show up while a shooter is actively killing children suggests a lot of current American gun culture is larping and cosplay. In a sense these shootings are mimetic violence committed by an attention seeking individual who didn't get the message this was all supposed to be pretend, not real.

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Originally Posted by CarlMega

This form and process seems entirely reasonable to me. To paraphrase you, people who aren't fucked wouldn't have a problem being approved.

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It just, it makes absolutely no sense why it seems easier to get a gun than a drivers license or a case of beer (from the outside looking in, I realize this may not be true).

And after things like this happen, the IMMEDIATE dismissal of any sort of gun reform by politicians is bonkers. Like, you could still say "you know what this is worth looking in to" and then just say no later on. But the rush to just dismiss any firearm restrictions.... it's inexcusable.

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Originally Posted by sirbumpsalot

This private citizen seems to have done a better job than the police in Texas in preventing mass shooting escalation. Strange that the media hasn't given it more coverage (bias/narrative?):

https://wchstv.com/news/local/victim...eston-shooting

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the lack of reporting on it speaks to the infrequency of it, not that the media is purposely suppressing all the successful "good guy with gun" events

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Originally Posted by heckacali

Well, the conjugal partner requirement is clearly a roadblock for the tacti-cool incels....
but it is actually brilliant to keep those dangerous antisocial freaks from being armed.

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There is no requirement to be in a common law marriage or similar relationship to own a firearm in Canada. There is only the requirement to obtain signatures of those with whom you have been in such relationships in the last 2 years as one of several sanity checks on whether or not an applicant should be approved.

Just clearing this up before y'all start spreading rumours down there "hey did ya know you gotta actually be FUCKING someone in Canada to even own a gun? they're crazy up there!"

To JC's point about it being a failure of the dems (not that I agree in absolving anyone on the other side from not caring at all) to get reasonable gun control passed, this old article provides a nice framework:

https://www.gawker.com/the-gun-contr...tic-1734711064

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Originally Posted by sirbumpsalot

This private citizen seems to have done a better job than the police in Texas in preventing mass shooting escalation. Strange that the media hasn't given it more coverage (bias/narrative?):

https://wchstv.com/news/local/victim...eston-shooting

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I mean good for her she is a hero, but do you work in a newsroom and know why these stories are not on the front page of the NYT? Me neither, just speculating too. But if newsrooms just published the story to show how guns are good, isn't that biased reporting? No innocent people died, just a criminal. If that criminal killed a bunch of people THEN the lady shot him, it's then national news IMO.

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Originally Posted by paulster2626

There is no requirement to be in a common law marriage or similar relationship to own a firearm in Canada. There is only the requirement to obtain signatures of those with whom you have been in such relationships in the last 2 years as one of several sanity checks on whether or not an applicant should be approved.

Just clearing this up before y'all start spreading rumours down there "hey did ya know you gotta actually be FUCKING someone in Canada to even own a gun? they're crazy up there!"

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Yep, and it's likely because domestic violence is heavily correlated with using guns to injure others.

What the FUCK are we doing to our kids?
Attachment 417500

https://media0.giphy.com/media/3osxY...NYqY/giphy.gif

Think of how people got filled with rage over mask use in kids and the “damage” it was gone do to their development…

Wow, what a shitshow of a press conference going on now

As of this moment, k-12 students in the United States are more likely to be fatally shot than on-duty police officers.

2022 number of dead cops: 20
2022 number of dead kids: 24

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Originally Posted by The SnowShow

What the FUCK are we doing to our kids?
Attachment 417500

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Price of freedumb, my man... price of freedumb.

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Originally Posted by paulster2626

In Canadian: Sorry to say but our system fucking rocks. Yours is broken. Get over it. Sent my kids on the bus this morning to school quite comfortably, which I can guaranfuckingtee isn't happening in the USA right now.

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It can happen here. My old high school. Not long after I got out of there, remember hearing about it on the radio while working at a tree nursery just north west of Brampton. The shooter was the brother of one of my classmates. Too close for comfort.

https://lornajmccluskey.wordpress.co...bcss-shooting/

Does FOX ever criticize cops? Seems like firings coming.

That teacher who propped open that school door...hate to be that person.

Total collapse of procedures that day.

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Originally Posted by Ted Striker

As of this moment, k-12 students in the United States are more likely to be fatally shot than on-duty police officers.

2022 number of dead cops: 20
2022 number of dead kids: 24

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Keeping them even safer than school children is how you know the training is working.

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Originally Posted by cinnepa

Wow, what a shitshow of a press conference going on now

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and you know the real shitshow is behind the scenes as they all try to find a lie to cover their own asses

Jfc sitting there as multiple 911 calls come from inside the school

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Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark

I'd need to consult with your last partner to OK that. What's his name and address?

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You're smart enough to know that's a fucked up thing to say, knock that shit off. Be a homophobe all you want in your trailer, but not here.

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Originally Posted by Ted Striker

As of this moment, k-12 students in the United States are more likely to be fatally shot than on-duty police officers.

2022 number of dead cops: 20
2022 number of dead kids: 24

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More likely? Not so.

There are 50 million students and 700K police officers, so a PO is 60x more likely to be shot.

Not that any of these deaths are OK

Attachment 417512

If we find out the classroom door was designed to keep a shooter out it speaks to the defensive problem of objects that protect children can also protect shooters.

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Originally Posted by Summit

More likely? Not so.

There are 50 million students and 700K police officers, so a PO is 60x more likely to be shot.

Not that any of these deaths are OK

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Do we need to point out the huge variable for you? Going to school isn't supposed to be a dangerous activity.

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Originally Posted by cinnepa

Does FOX ever criticize cops? Seems like firings coming.

That teacher who propped open that school door...hate to be that person.

Total collapse of procedures that day.

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Apparently Tucker was actually pretty critical of them last night. Article commenting on him showed up in my newsfeed, but I can’t find it any more.

You know you’ve fucked up as a cop when you’ve lost guys like Tucker.

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Originally Posted by TahoeJ

Do we need to point out the huge variable for you? Going to school isn't supposed to be a dangerous activity.

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What color is the sky?

Going to school should be vastly less risky than being a cop. And it is. I don't have in mind an appropriate ratio.

Both those numbers are ideally zero shot.

Police lied about the timeline. Multiple times. And about shooter having body armor. And about him being barricaded.

They lied about the armed resource officer's whereabouts.

They detained parents, while individual cops went in and got their own kids out. In doing so, one cop got another child killed via his incompetence.

Cops lying is a feature, not a bug, and they'll keep massaging the message until they arrive at one the media will accept.

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Originally Posted by Ted Striker

Police lied about the timeline. Multiple times. And about shooter having body armor. And about him being barricaded.

They lied about the armed resource officer's whereabouts.

They detained parents, while individual cops went in and got their own kids out. In doing so, one cop got another child killed via his incompetence.

Cops lying is a feature, not a bug, and they'll keep massaging the message until they arrive at one the media will accept.

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Holy shit!

That's unbelievable... almost...

Infuriating :cussing:

Yup. It's a game of cat and mouse to see what they can get away with and what is provable. Resources being spent managing the fuck-ups and the messaging about the fuck-ups is bigly.