Official Sprocket Rockets Training Thread

What part of walking and where is painful?

You mentioned stretching but are you doing any of the typical glute PT exercises? Crab walks, front/back monster walks, banded raises, glute bridges etc.?

Is it painful to do the motions required for strength training? If possible you might be better off flipping 1 and 2 in your plan. Assuming your hip flexors are inflamed some functional time under tension may help with healing better than “just” stretching.

It's a reverse of your situation but for me there's not much better of a posterior chain stretch than what I get at the bottom of a relatively-heavy squat or deadlift.

I spent a weekend with an ultra coach who told me the problem is that whatever you eat might during an ultra might make you sick/ bonk

Buddy skied climbed 27500 ft while skiing 36kms in < 13 hrs which was fucking amazing

+1 to gaining flexibility through full range of motion exercises like atg split squats, elevated deadlift, etc. I’ve noticed more improvement that sticks around longer vs static stretching


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I also attribute strength training (squats/deadlifts) to helping with hip issues, however if you are in pain just walking, I certainly wouldn't recommend jumping into strength training.

The last episode of fast talk labs, about mental training, and goal setting, etc... really good. I think I am going to make my kid listen to it. Cause lots of applications to tons of things in life.

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Originally Posted by kathleenturneroverdrive

Anyone ever use Spring Energy?

Sounds like their "Awesome Sauce" with a claimed 45g/carbs actually only contains 16g/carbs. Pretty wild. Score one for Reddit scientists as this started there a few months back, but appears to be mostly confirmed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultramarath...rbs_confirmed/

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Wild. And not totally surprised. When I was using Awesome Sauce for lots of trail runnung I had the thought "I can't believe this has that many calories." I trusted it - because why wouldn't I - but I certainly didn't feel like as many calories as equivalent amounts of other gels.

Disappointing for sure.


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Originally Posted by XtrPickels

Hey Team,
On the other side of the microphone for once.

My anterior chain has always been tight, but it's never been much of an issue other than some strain while running downhill.
However, it seems to be catching up with me and I'm running into a host of SI Joint / Piriformis / Sciatic issues that may be related.
Regardless, when I stand I do have some anterior tilt of my pelvis and can feel some strain in my hip flexors.

For almost a year I have been stretching, dry-needling, percussion massaging, using a pso-rite, etc with no discernable difference in my ROM.

This is decreasing quality of life to the point that I'm willing to try almost anything - but I'm tired of hearing "you need to stretch more".

What has worked for you?

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That sounds brutal, Pickels. Sorry to hear.

Have you seen a PT yet? I imagine you know the Boulder PT scene. I also have a acupuncture recommendation if useful - she works on a lot of the high performing endurance athletes up there and is great. Feel free to DM for the rec.

Also if it's not too much, I know a lot of people love the Foundation Back Routine. Even if you can't do the whole video, perhaps some of exercises are useful. I know people who swear by it: https://youtu.be/oVOnXIiPgM8?si=0srIPdWG8B3J-XDK


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No idea if this will help or not, but a couple of years ago I was having some hip flexor issues from skiing and fixed it by going at all the muscles around my hip with a lacrosse ball Kelly Starrett-style.

I had sharp pain developing on the outside of one hip about a year ago. I've been seeing a PT now about once a month for the last year. It took a while, but now I have measurably greater range of motion, and exercises with resistance bands have helped strengthen flexor muscles. Pain in the hip is not 100% eliminated, but is like 95% gone. I would probably benefit from more consistent thorough stretching. I get 3 really solid sessions in a week, and I think 5 or 6 a week would lead to continued improvement. My x rays did not show any damage, so initial diagnosis was bursitis. Stretches focus on hip flexibility and core flexibility, like psoas. But the PT has been invaluable.

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I sent Spring Energy's awesomesauce off to a commercial food lab for analysis.
Results-
75 cal vs 180 on the label
18 g CHO vs 45 on the label

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From Jason Koop's Twitter and more on the Reddit Megathread

Spring's other gels also came back lower than advertised. :eek: Not a good look.

Yeah, that was discussed a little ways back. Either gross incompetence or fraud, neither is a good look. But, FWIW, my larger take is that whole food gels are completely stupid to begin with and I can barely bring myself to feel sorry for the people who bought into the scam.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Yeah, that was discussed a little ways back. Either gross incompetence or fraud, neither is a good look. But, FWIW, my larger take is that whole food gels are completely stupid to begin with and I can barely bring myself to feel sorry for the people who bought into the scam.

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Oh yeah. I saw that - I guess my post above could have been more clear that the evidence is significantly more conclusive now. Multiple samples tested in a lab, multiple flavors, etc. So wanted to share the update with everyone.

On that note, have homemade gels been discussed in this thread? I imagine they’re less used/important for cycling - given ability to carry more items than running - but I’m curious if anyone’s made them (something like Skratch high carb). Would/could it be the same mixture as we’ve discussed before - white sugar, electrolytes, flavoring - but mixed with less water and perhaps warmer water, to enable super saturation?


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Ah, sorry, I didn't realize new shit had come to light. It's nice that he got a real lab test to back up his claim, but really his home dehydrator experiment was definitive.

I so don't think it's worth the effort to make up individual little packets. For running, my big vest holds a 500 ml soft bottle on the shoulder strap. I fill that with 200 g of sugar, 1/2 tsp each fine table salt and potassium citrate, flavoring (usually powered lemon juice), and maybe a little citric acid. Top off with water and shake. It all dissolves easily.

I sip on that bottle and make one last 2-3 hours depending on pace and how much I supplement with solid food. Carry extra measured bags of the mix as needed. That way you don't carry any useless water weight.

got a new thing

Attachment 494427

The smart trainer a couple years ago was the first step I suppose. Gravel bike has power too. Just tracking load and fatigue and time in zones and such has made a pretty good difference. I think I'm faster now than I've ever been, but also i'm an amateur who didn't start riding bikes seriously and racing until i was almost 30 (40 now).

Did some hard pedaling up the ski hill tonight to try it out. Pretty good numbers but I was a little too tired from the last week and a half to pull off a full 5x5. First 3 were fine, 4th one I called it after about a minute.

Bike is pretty dumb but does go fast uphill

Attachment 494428

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Originally Posted by jamal

got a new thing

Attachment 494427

The smart trainer a couple years ago was the first step I suppose. Gravel bike has power too. Just tracking load and fatigue and time in zones and such has made a pretty good difference. I think I'm faster now than I've ever been, but also i'm an amateur who didn't start riding bikes seriously and racing until i was almost 30 (40 now).

Did some hard pedaling up the ski hill tonight to try it out. Pretty good numbers but I was a little too tired from the last week and a half to pull off a full 5x5. First 3 were fine, 4th one I called it after about a minute.

Bike is pretty dumb but does go fast uphill

Attachment 494428

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I've been meaning to get a dumb but fast bike myself.
My Quarqs have been rock-solid.

Update on my Piriformis / Sciatica.
Went full nuclear option with oral steroids - felt great for a couple days then right back to agony.
Currently sitting here with a TENs unit that helps a bit.
Next Step is an MRI to see if there's something major going on

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Ah, sorry, I didn't realize new shit had come to light. It's nice that he got a real lab test to back up his claim, but really his home dehydrator experiment was definitive.

I so don't think it's worth the effort to make up individual little packets. For running, my big vest holds a 500 ml soft bottle on the shoulder strap. I fill that with 200 g of sugar, 1/2 tsp each fine table salt and potassium citrate, flavoring (usually powered lemon juice), and maybe a little citric acid. Top off with water and shake. It all dissolves easily.

I sip on that bottle and make one last 2-3 hours depending on pace and how much I supplement with solid food. Carry extra measured bags of the mix as needed. That way you don't carry any useless water weight.

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All good.

I love the simplicity of your solution - thanks, DTM! I also have followed your flavor guidance for a lemonade type flavor and it's delish. But I also just ran across this BS watermelon flavor that sounds good too: https://a.co/d/42Roq9o I might give it a try at some point.


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Wow, watermelon powder, never would have considered that or expected that BS would sell it.

I can't take credit, I stole the idea from climberevan. He was way out in front on this. I thought it was nuts until I finally tried it, but it works. I think Evan uses unsweetened Koolaid packets to flavor.

What happened to me last night? Since breaking four ribs a month ago, I’ve lost about ten pounds, down to 139lbs. Kept riding through recovery to keep my lungs healthy and my power numbers were good for me, until last night. Rode down to a fast group gravel ride and got dropped hard on the first climb. My legs felt hollow. Did losing the weight steal my legs, or was it just a bad bonk? Ended up with a wicked leg cramp climbing back up the hill to my place for added enjoyment. Yesterday was the first real hot and humid day of the year, but I’m usually good with the heat. It was the hardest 50 miles I’ve ever ridden.

Ten is a lot at your size

Altho getting used to new summer days can always slow us down a bit

An already skinny guy losing 10 lbs of mostly lean mass will absolutely mess you up. Going straight into hot weather with no acclimation is also a recipe for disaster.

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Originally Posted by buttahflake

Ended up with a wicked leg cramp climbing back up the hill to my place for added enjoyment. Yesterday was the first real hot and humid day of the year, but I’m usually good with the heat. It was the hardest 50 miles I’ve ever ridden.

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You might be good with the heat, but it still takes a few weeks for the body to acclimate. Get up early this weekend when its cool and do a group ride and see how you feel.
Did a ride this morning when it was 68 after 2 hard days in the heat and it felt like magic.

Any general commentary on getting back on the bike after a leg injury? My main concerns are that I don't want to end up unbalanced (left vs right) and I want to rebuild comfort with higher power.

I tore my achilles Tendon and had surgery about 12 weeks ago. Thankfully having a really positive outcome from surgery. Started biking on the trainer about 4 weeks post op and I've been sloooowly doing a little riding outside the last week or two. I had my first 100+ mile week last week, all on the road bike still.

Right now I feel surprisingly solid in Zone 2. My previous FTP was around 250ish and I've had some trainer rides at 210-220 for an hour feeling pretty solid (not pressing as hard as I could). The main issue I'm having is higher wattages. Right now efforts more in the 350-400 watt range feel much harder than they used to more of a 'I don't know how long I can do this' feeling. My ride today had a section of 10% grade for around a mile that was pretty darn hard. It was about 8-9 minutes of being in my low gear and feeling pretty taxed. My power meter shows left right balance and I've been trying to be diligent about being 50-50 but higher efforts it's easy to end up 60-40 and a little mentally taxed with 'will I make it'. It also feels like a I 'burn a few matches' with every hard effort that I feel later in rides.

Any thoughts? Normally I'd say "do some intervals" but I don't know if I'm there yet. I'm doing lots of PT and single leg strength exercises (squats, lunges, hip lifts, etc). Give it some time might be the only answer but open to any thoughts.

Okay how bout this, ate a half a hit of LSD before the group gravel ride and had the best ride of the year! At the front all night and felt frisky.
Explain?

Give me some to try and I'll report back.

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Originally Posted by buttahflake

Okay how bout this, ate a half a hit of LSD before the group gravel ride and had the best ride of the year! At the front all night and felt frisky.
Explain?

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You are very fit and LSD is a powerful drug. A low dose provides enough stimulation to focus on the activity, but not enough to make you trip. I suspect a full hit would have made you analyze why you are bothering riding a child's toy with a bunch of grown adults.

I read a report on here when someone did shrooms on a long bike ride/race (maybe it was a triathlon) and it worked out very well. He tried it again the next year and ended up quitting the ride.

For sure I was hyper-focused, weather was perfect, attacks and chasing was the game last night, good clean fun!

It's not exactly news that stimulants are PEDs.

I’ve had a bunch of great ride experiences on both L and mushrooms. As long as you dont overdo the doses they can help with focus and ‘energy’. Makes for a great day n the mountains.
Keep eating sugar so your body can keep up with your mind. Haha.


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A friend of a friend, who is definitely not me, says that Mescaline pairs very well with bicycling.

Bump bump

I'm joining a new gym and starting training again for ski season and bike racing next year. Coming back still from shoulder surgery this past April and have been doing PT all along, but ready to start some regular training again. Still pretty light on weight for shoulder/upper back.

I just don't know where to begin. What are you guys doing for all around workouts for 45-60 minutes 2 or 3 times a week in the gym?

When I got to train with the local sponsored dudes at a private gym we did circuits of Box Jumps, Bear Crawl plate drag throughs, the rope, single leg RDLs, back squats, front squats, on and on and on.....I just don't know how to build a new circuit for myself.

I've gotten back on the Men's Health Powertraining program. Created by Coach Dos. Menu/push-pull/alternating single limb-bilateral. Been seeing good results in the gym and on the bike. I can only motivate 2x/week so I do Full Body.

Full Body ~90 min
Warmup complex
4x power lift (i do Clean Pulls)
Front Squat
Single leg good morning
Incline bench
Single arm cable row
Dumbell Push Press
Lat Pull Down
Rotation core
Bridge core

Push Split ~45-60 min
Warmup complex
4x power lift
Front Squat
Dumbell Incline Bench
Barbell Push Press
Core

Pull Split
Warmup complex
4x power lift
RDL
Standing Cable Row
Single arm lat pull down
Core

Could substitute any explosive movements for power lifts. Key is to alternate single/bi-lateral. Standing exercises as much as possible to incorporate core stability. The book has a full menu of exercises, these are just what I'm doing currently.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian

Bump bump

I'm joining a new gym and starting training again for ski season and bike racing next year. Coming back still from shoulder surgery this past April and have been doing PT all along, but ready to start some regular training again. Still pretty light on weight for shoulder/upper back.

I just don't know where to begin. What are you guys doing for all around workouts for 45-60 minutes 2 or 3 times a week in the gym?

When I got to train with the local sponsored dudes at a private gym we did circuits of Box Jumps, Bear Crawl plate drag throughs, the rope, single leg RDLs, back squats, front squats, on and on and on.....I just don't know how to build a new circuit for myself.

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Dylan Johnson has a series of video about lifting for cycling that includes a program.

Biolayne workout builder is legit.

Buy a program from somewhere like Mountain Tactical or Complete Human Performance.

KISS principle and just do a squat, hinge, press and pull. Methods are many but concepts are few.

Anyone using Morpheus?

https://trainwithmorpheus.com/

The founder was on Attia's podcast a while ago and he seems pretty legit. No subscription bullshit.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Anyone using Morpheus?

https://trainwithmorpheus.com/

The founder was on Attia's podcast a while ago and he seems pretty legit. No subscription bullshit.

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i listened to attia for a while, but the more I do, the more I realize who he is. All he wants is money and fame. The dude couldn't even finish residency and dropped out. Somehow he maintains a medical license, but isn't board certified in anything? And gives advice to millions on youtube who drink up everything he says without questioning. Screaming at the top of his lungs that things like deer jerky will help you meet your protein needs and make you live longer when all available evidence says that processed meats are bad period end of story, oh yeah, because he makes money as an investor in a deer jerky company who he advertises for all the time.

The dude is a an egomaniac who chose to continue interviews for an episode of his podcast over being with his wife during the birth of his kid who needed to be whisked awayt to the cardiac ICU for heart surgery shortly after birth and instead of flying back to be with them was just hanging out in another state doing a podcast while his kid went to cardiac surgery in critical condition. All he wants is fame and money for being a doctor when hes really only kinda sorta a doctor, but more like not at all, and uses clickbait titles to get views so he can rack up money and advertise for companies who pay him.

End rant

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian

Bump bump

I'm joining a new gym and starting training again for ski season and bike racing next year. Coming back still from shoulder surgery this past April and have been doing PT all along, but ready to start some regular training again. Still pretty light on weight for shoulder/upper back.

I just don't know where to begin. What are you guys doing for all around workouts for 45-60 minutes 2 or 3 times a week in the gym?

When I got to train with the local sponsored dudes at a private gym we did circuits of Box Jumps, Bear Crawl plate drag throughs, the rope, single leg RDLs, back squats, front squats, on and on and on.....I just don't know how to build a new circuit for myself.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U11QNOq0npg&t=421s

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Anyone using Morpheus?

https://trainwithmorpheus.com/

The founder was on Attia's podcast a while ago and he seems pretty legit. No subscription bullshit.

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When I looked at this in the past...it basically seems like an overcomplicated, marketing upsell gimmick to help you train Z2 with some VO2 intervals (iirc). I'm not sure it's much better than an effective cardio program and/or using CTL, etc. on Training Peaks. Seems good for some people perhaps but not most of the people in this thread (or you DTM) that have a decent level of knowledge of endurance training. But maybe I'm misremembering?


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It’s Zone [emoji638] season, just deal with it. Ain’t no thing.

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Originally Posted by couloirman

i listened to attia for a while, but the more I do, the more I realize who he is. All he wants is money and fame. The dude couldn't even finish residency and dropped out. Somehow he maintains a medical license, but isn't board certified in anything? And gives advice to millions on youtube who drink up everything he says without questioning. Screaming at the top of his lungs that things like deer jerky will help you meet your protein needs and make you live longer when all available evidence says that processed meats are bad period end of story, oh yeah, because he makes money as an investor in a deer jerky company who he advertises for all the time.

The dude is a an egomaniac who chose to continue interviews for an episode of his podcast over being with his wife during the birth of his kid who needed to be whisked awayt to the cardiac ICU for heart surgery shortly after birth and instead of flying back to be with them was just hanging out in another state doing a podcast while his kid went to cardiac surgery in critical condition. All he wants is fame and money for being a doctor when hes really only kinda sorta a doctor, but more like not at all, and uses clickbait titles to get views so he can rack up money and advertise for companies who pay him.

End rant

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A lot to unpack here. He chose to not finish his residency because he realized being a general surgeon was not what he actually wanted to do. You don't have to be board certified in a specialty to have a medical license, and if you look into it board certification can be a bit of a racket. There's no board certification for the kind of medicine he currently practices, but if there was one he'd probably get it.

Yes, he likes deer jerky snacks, but having listened to many, many episodes of his podcasts I don't think it's fair to say he "screams at the top of his lungs" about them. Yes, he's an investor in Maui Nui, but he's open about that. The anti-meat crowd have greatly exaggerated the health impacts of processed meat, which itself is an overly broad term that borders on meaningless. There's a world of difference between jerky and pink slime.

I was not aware of that story about his kid going into cardiac surgery, though I have not vetted the details you presented. Regardless, he's very open about having some significant personality defects that he seems to have tried very hard to improve. He's very open about this in the mental health part of his book. He definitely never says that you should take anything he says as gospel. If anything it's quite the opposite.

The thumbnails on his YT channel don't strike me as the least bit clickbaity (https://www.youtube.com/@PeterAttiaMD/videos). His podcast has no ads, and I can't recall seeing a single online ad where he's personally pitching Maui Nui or any other product (with the possible exception of his book). Maybe they're out there and I haven't seen them, but given how often I listen to his show you would expect the algo's to pushing them to me hard.

I listen to his show for the guests, who are generally one of the most if not the most respected and knowledgeable persons in their field. That said, Peter is a good interviewer who often asks excellent, pointed questions and provides summaries of complex technical issues that the expert guests deem entirely correct. The guests usually clearly respect and enjoy talking to him, and none of these people seem to have any need or inclination to sniff his farts just because.

So, while I respect your opinion, I still think it's fair to say that his show is one the best sources anywhere for information on health, wellness, and physiology.

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Originally Posted by fool

When I looked at this in the past...it basically seems like an overcomplicated, marketing upsell gimmick to help you train Z2 with some VO2 intervals (iirc). I'm not sure it's much better than an effective cardio program and/or using CTL, etc. on Training Peaks. Seems good for some people perhaps but not most of the people in this thread (or you DTM) that have a decent level of knowledge of endurance training. But maybe I'm misremembering?

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Honestly, I'd have to go back and listen to the episode to remember the big takeaways. I'm about to start crawling out of the hole that shoulder surgery has left me in, so it seemed like a good option for tracked and structured training compared to the intuitive/RPE way I usually do things. It's not expensive. You're basically just buying a nice HR monitor and getting a slick training algo for free.

I’ve also never heard/seen Attia “scream” anything - I call BS on that.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Dylan Johnson has a series of video about lifting for cycling that includes a program.


KISS principle and just do a squat, hinge, press and pull. Methods are many but concepts are few.

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This is my approach, along with maybe 30 minutes of core/mobility work. Not saying it couldn't be better, but I only have so much in the tank after biking/skiing/work/life.