Flex 3 or 3+ is the sweet spot in Keith's flex scale, IMHO.
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Flex 3 or 3+ is the sweet spot in Keith's flex scale, IMHO.
This ^^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_pretzel
May belong in a different thread, but one thing I notice on the days I ride my bent chetlers in bounds is that they really require good balance, agility and a lighter touch.
Elevates my respect for athletes like durschti and mcnutt who do they stuff they can do on light skis.
Where as a heavy hitter praxis or an On3p — you can just ski anything balanced or not without consequences.
So, I love my On3p and praxis builds. But a goal for the future is to ski with that “lighter touch”
Am I alone here? Anyone else notice this?
Keith said they are adjusting the MVP for next year with some of these changes. He said tip shape and rocker adjustments.Quote:
Originally Posted by eskido
If I can’t get another set of lahasas I’ll be ordering these.Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertow
That makes a LOT more sense, thanks!! Personally I think I would enjoy that on that ski, it’s def a little more business than playful.Quote:
Originally Posted by steveski
My experience has been that if tabke is skiing it, it's pretty much fire. Protest, gpo's, quixote's...
If they do bring it to market, I hope the just call it "The Tabski" or, even more directly, "Praxis FWT Model" and not "MVP + 10" or something. No marketing genius I just hope keith can stay in business
Interesting to see your woo's, mall walker. I got rid of gpo's in an ul layup because they were 3 flex and, while dialed for tree skiing were not quite as much ski as I wanted in big alpine settings (I'm also heavier and a probs a shittier skier). I copped a pair of bmt 122's which do both really well, but at that weight ratio those woo's really have me thinking...
Not to get too personal but is that an issue? I figured with that successful of a ski company he'd be making bookoo bucks.Quote:
Originally Posted by sruffian
They should call it the “DH”
Designated Hitter
The guy produces a few hundred pairs of skis per season, tops. He's a craftsman, not an industrialist. Do the math.Quote:
Originally Posted by brundo
And it's beaucoup.
Take my review of them with a grain of salt; I haven't had real alpine gear in over a decade, and I ski < 5 days/season inbounds (on tele gear no less) compared to 125+ in the bc. My heaviest skis last season were ~1450g/ski with clamps... soo, the Woos are almost a pound a foot heavier and 10mm+ wider than anything I've been on recently. To me they feel super burly, but some of this is surely just what I'm comparing them to. They certainly both pick up speed quick and scrub speed quick, I anticipate no problems opening it up in big terrain with them, but I ski 85%+ NW/N/NE facing Utah snow so... :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by sruffian
I detuned the SHIT out of them today, so hopefully they're a little less grabby, and will see how they behave in the new stuff coming down tonight...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertow
If there is a spring sale I'll be ordering veneer heavy core GPO for backups. Now that I have a bunch of days on my heavy core skis I can say that it is money for resort conditions.
A couple years back, when Praxis was OEM for a couple other indy ski brands, he mentioned he can feasibly manage 1,000 skis a season and that trying to do more didn’t work for his model. Not sure what numbers he’s doing now but based on online inventory it looks like a lot less than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by glademaster
And a couple months ago he was pretty open about Praxis’ ability to continue operations at the price point he wants to keep his skis at - which is super tight margins. He’s certainly not doing this for the money and really just wants to make the best skis on the market for cool peeps at easy prices. That’s a big ask of a small manufacturer with no real capital backing the brand.
Which is why it's really a "tell all your friends" situation. While we certainly do our part here, if we can get 2 or 3 friends and family to custom order in the spring I think that would be a small way to help Keith out for all that he has done and continues to do making some awesome skis.Quote:
Originally Posted by s-domini
You and I usually dig the same skis and I can’t remember but I know some mags totally dug the heavy core with carbon - was that your build...? To date my GPOs are still my favorite skis for versatility but grab my ON3P Supergoats as I like their crud busting abilities more for late day cut up POW and post storm... GPOs are ok here but get knocked around more than the SGs... The heavy core I know would address this and will probably mount -1 but am curious about the carbon... I figured you, Eskido, Muggy or SuperC could weigh in...Quote:
Originally Posted by N1CK.
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Heavy + carbon yes.
$$$$$
Not a fan of heavy + carbon, carbon makes the ski so hard to keep bent.
I like glass + heavy a lot more.
Lessen your carbon footprint.
#justsayno2carbon
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I did the stiff flex, 4/5 heavy core on my Lhasa, Keith talked me out of carbon for my build since I wanted a fall line missile. He did say a flex 3/4 enduro carbon would be a good match tho.
What do people think would compliment a concept as a two ski inbounds-only quiver for Tahoe? I'm thinking -10 GPO, -10 MVP or freeride? I want something a little better in bumps and hard snow (Will also be going a size down from the concepts).
Personally, for what you’re describing, I’d probably skip the carbon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertow
I'd say a stock GPO and MVP. If you want narrower look at some of the other options. There's been mixed results with changing widths willy nilly.Quote:
Originally Posted by davjr96
-10 mvp is a piste jib . Pj is 3 flex and mvp us 4. Stock gpo and a pj is a nice combo
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How does the Concept nose compare to GPO for float in deep and heavy? GPO nose doesn’t really float in that stuff until you get it up to speed. Awesome for chop but for a 2 ski quiver in Tahoe it’s nice something that be ridiculously fun for the occasional deep and heavy days. The GPO has kind of struck me as a 1 ski quiver or 3 ski quiver ski (middle/Goldilocks position), but not the fat end of a 2 ski quiver in places that get upside down or heavy pow.
As in, insert mid-100 waist all mountain ski of your style (BC, Freeride, MVP) and then get a Protest. (Or a snowboard, that’s what I do when it’s heavy or upside down hah)
Since you mentioned bumps though, and knowing what happens when it’s firm and crappy during prolonged dry spells in Tahoe, maybe 9D/9D8/PJ and 116 waist ski of your style (RX, Concept, yes GPO knowing the tip isn’t the best for low speed skiing in pow).
Is there one you tend to reach for the most when going up to the resort?Quote:
Originally Posted by grinch
Actually it sounds like you already have a Concept ... I bet a Custom Yeti with Heavy Hitter core + veneer would actually be a pretty damn versatile ski for “hasn’t snowed in X days” / spring conditions inbounds ski in Tahoe. But a stock PJ or 9D will be a lot less cash!
Thanks guys! Yes I already have a concept and for now am probably looking to fill the "hasn't snowed in X days". Currently that spot is filled by a pair of faction CT 3.0s but they are much to short for me out here. The PJs look great and similar to my Candides which I do love, I hadn't really considered them until now. Custom yetis also look like a sweet option. The good news is when I fill this spot in my quiver there will probably never be a dry spell and I'll never get to use them. You're welcome :)
I sold the piste jib. I really liked it but id rather have that ski shorter than the 184 that i had. I think i would have kept it if it was around 177(if that was an option/it isnt). Its more of a all mt/play ski (low tide, hit some moguls and side hits and try and get switch going or groomers) for me. It made no sense having that longer than my 182 gpo. Debated getting a 174 and still might. The only weakness i found was ripping spring corn laps. Id end up grabbing my gpo for that. The 3 flex didnt make sense for the longer pj. Shorter and i would ski spring moguls with the 3 flex. Also wonder if id get more use out of a mvp. I go back and forth between the pj and mvp for a future purchase in that slotQuote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Crank
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I'll go plain jane and say the 9D or 9D8, heavy and 4 or 5. Both are super fun on hardpack and in bumps. They're not sexy and are more traditional by today's standards, but they're very predictable and quick, esp. the 9D.
As a massive Concept fan boy.....the Piste Jib was a nice addition. I IMMEDIATELY clicked with the concept....like perfection for me. The PJ wasn’t as intuitive for me....but I love them now....my error IMO.
I also am a carbon user....Keith talked me into some carbon bc I occasionally tour on mine. My PJ has shifts and carbon, fun sidecountry set up for day(s) post storm
I’d go MVP / Protest (which I’ve never skied, but whatever, bet they’re sweet) as a 2 ski Tahoe quiver. PJ/MVP/Protest for 3 ski. but I always lean toward ideal setup for the conditions I want to be skiing.
I like the MVP so much in pow up to 12’’ it’s pretty much eliminated the need for a 113-120 UF ski in my quiver. I’m on the 193s which obviously helps float
Different strokes and I likely weigh a lot more than the grinch, I love my 184 PJs in spring corn. I’ve only used them in NE. Slash, carve, jump, jib, slarves, they do it. My corn destroyer of choice in Tahoe is a 194 Devastator or 193 MVP.
I have always loved the energetic rebound carbon adds to a soft to medium flexing ski. It can make for really playful skiing in consistent / predictable snow. The thing I’ve never loved is the high frequency chatter it also adds on inconsistent/junk snow. Which is where something like wood veneer should theoretically come into play to settle low amplitude high frequency chatter.
I haven’t tried carbon plus veneer yet but if I’m feeling flush with money / think I can clear this past my wife come spring presale (slim chance, she works full time and I’m unemployed stay at home dad) I’ll probably do that.
Sort of reenvisioning both my resort and BC quivers lately. Inbounds: starting to get tired of my old school 178 Nordica Enforcers (flat tail 2x titanium layers) and thinking slightly skinnier, more playful, lighter weight, more forgiving tail in bumps or early season when my legs aren’t fully dialed. 174 9D seems to fit that bill well.
I like my enduro veneer 182 GPOs for a soft snow all mountain position, but some days it still feels like too much ski for me - when I don’t have the fitness or desire to ski like I’m competition skiing. Probably should have gone 175. Or maybe stick with what I love and go enduro veneer 180 BC for all mountain soft snow. I’m 5’ 8” 135 lbs.
It leaves open the powder position, for which I have a 162 cm snowboard - and eventually can compliment with 177 Protests.
Touring wise, 180 Flex 2 BC has been awesome in so many conditions on the west coast as a one ski quiver. So easy to ski lazily but also able to be driven hard, so playful, so much fun - so who cares if it has a speed limit because I’m not a guy who is sending in the backcountry. My pair is now 9 seasons old, feeling pretty soft, and I’m not sure whether to replace like with like, or to split this out to a Yeti / Wootest combo. The BC has been weak on ultrasmooth windboard, and actually amazing in pow but in over 2 feet of new snow (once I toured 5 feet of pow) I could have used a bit extra girth and rocker - and I didn’t know 177 was a Wootest option until mall walker posted his up! Replacing one ski with two though, as an unemployed dad who now has less than half the time to tour that I used to ... probably not in the cards, sigh ...
My departed Enduro/Carbon/Veneer Qs had a very similar feel (dampness-wise) to my Enduro/Veneer GPOs - not a perfect apples to apples comparison, but my sense is that in Keith's builds, veneer dominates - in a good way.Quote:
Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio
... Thom
And did you find the carbon added in said “snap” of energy return, coming out of a turn or loading the rails for an ollie?
Appreciate all the input boys - going heavy core, veneer and will be skipping the carbon...
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Gon be siiiiiiiick!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertow
Dammit, now I want some... just like that
That's the apples to apples part I can't comment on. The Qs engage differently than the GPOs (coming out of a turn and starting the next one).Quote:
Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio
Mid-turn, there's a calmness/dampness common to both veneer skis (one with carbon, the other without).
... Thom
Good to hear your thoughts. I'm looking at getting a new daily driver and debating the limitless options. Still really enjoy my BCs for touring. Actually took them inbounds today for the first time ever and it was good times but I was snapped back into reality after blowing out of the lightweight touring bindings when landing switch off a small hit. I've been wondering about those MVPs...Quote:
Originally Posted by grinch
Nice, you still have the bc's. Another ski id like to get again. The list is looongQuote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Crank
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Interesting email from Praxis re Drew Tabke's MVP special. I always thought a flatter, longer tip would be a bonus.
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"So, what was Drew skiing on for the most recent comp in Japan? The answer might surprise you as much as it did us when he put the order in. Using our custom order menu Drew created a version of the MVP, a variation of one of his go to skis in the quiver, but one he rarely used in competition.
The custom build was a 187 MVP +10 Ultralight core with a #3 flex, and nylon top. Why was this his ski of choice for one of the biggest freeride events in the world? Drew being familiar with the terrain and snow of Japan wanted a fatter jibby ski, poppy and light that would mesh well with the line he had plans to throw down. Since this was going to be a powder version of the MVP we made some additional changes to the rocker and tip and tail upturns. Mainly increased the rocker length and height by a few mm and decreased the tip upturn for a longer slower rise, faster and smoother in powder.
As soon as the skis came off the press, were cut out and tuned we could see this ski was a winner. We just needed to send it off to Tabke so he could show us how to properly ski this new creation. The immediate report back was positive and only a few weeks later the results are in and we could not be any happier! Nice work Drew! Congrats and thanks for all the stoke!
Interested in getting a pair of these fatty MVP's? Fired up, we are in the factory now creating a small run of them for the team and still have a few pair available. They won't be on the website but hit us up if you are interested. The price is right and the ski is a winner! "
Phenomenal heads up, thanks! For some reason after all these years I still can’t seem to get on his newsletter. Thanks again!