The Nutrition Science thread

That is a really, really robust study. Had to cost a shit-ton to run. It would be cool to see it repeated, because it basically validates everything I've said here about nutrition. Full text is available: https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism...131(19)30248-7

Check out the Graphical Abstract:

Attachment 282882

Ad libitum feeding (eat as much as you want) and the unprocessed group consistently ate 500 kcal fewer per day. That's massive. And look at the BW trend lines! Processed group quickly gained some weight then leveled off, while the unprocessed group steadily lost weight. Plus, that was while eating ~2,500 kcal/day, certainly no crash diet.

Fat mass change also accelerated during the course of the study, for both diets:

Attachment 282887

Also, this statement from the author in the NPR article has huge significance:

"For example, when the participants were eating the unprocessed diet, they had higher levels of an appetite-suppressing hormone called PYY, which is secreted by the gut, and lower levels of ghrelin, a hunger hormone, which might explain why they ate fewer calories. On the ultra-processed diet, these hormonal changes flipped, so participants had lower levels of the appetite-suppressing hormone and higher levels of the hunger hormone."

Bottom line, highly processed foods mess up your body's hormonal response to food, and everything goes to shit from there.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

and everything goes to shit from there.

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Isn't that the case no matter what the source?

Sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly.

I have been eating a super clean high fat, high protein diet for about 2 years now and just got my second blood panel results back....

2018
Total cholesterol: 146
HDL: 67
LDL: 67

2019
Total cholesterol: 152
HDL: 77
LDL: 66

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Originally Posted by Rideski

Are you guys still putting butter in your coffee? I got a spoonful of butter one day ready to drop in my coffee and I was going to try it, but decided to slather it on a slice of oatnut bread instead. I had been eating bread without butter for years. The dollop of butter every morning has been a real treat. Thanks guys.

Ps thanks for the clearance to eat bacon and eggs everyday too. Breakfast has been a lot better since the trg’s.
Still wear same pants size as in college and hdl ldl is apparently right on target.

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hubby does ghee and coconut oil in his coffee every morning for several yrs now
I never got into it but in summer he starts his days early at like 5am (he's a wildlife guide so early starts) and this helps him get though until breakfast with his guests around 8-9am.
I prefer your style- on a nice piece of toast

Also re: the processed vs unprocessed study being reported on- 1st thought was "no shit, sherlock"
but very glad a good, comprehensive study was done so that it hopefully shifts overall nutrition standards bc I sometimes forget how bad nutrition is in other places
particularly with kids and how they serve them cr@p in most public schools

https://assets.change.org/photos/1/h...jpg?1530127298

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Bottom line, highly processed foods mess up your body's hormonal response to food, and everything goes to shit from there.

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I think the page which details the actual diets eaten is interesting:
https://www.cell.com/cms/10.1016/j.c...925189f1b/mmc1
the processed meals are mostly unsurprising, the unprocessed meals include basmati rice & regular pasta

what do we think about glutathione supplements?

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Originally Posted by dunfree

I think the page which details the actual diets eaten is interesting:
https://www.cell.com/cms/10.1016/j.c...925189f1b/mmc1
the processed meals are mostly unsurprising, the unprocessed meals include basmati rice & regular pasta

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The difference in the sheer volume of food between the two sets of meals is striking. Also, apparently the processed diet eaters ate 54x more added sugar :eek:

While they were included in some meals, white rice and pasta were definitely not staples of the unprocessed diet. The amounts were pretty modest and the meals included enough veggies and fiber-rich items to keep the meal's overall GI down. Regardless, it's not like I'm opposed to starch. I'm lucky if a 15-lb Costco bag of Yukon Golds lasts me two weeks.

A women I met from Budapest at burning man sent me a bottle of pumpkin seed oil from overseas which I am absolutely loving. Don't cook with it, but it's flavor is out of this world.

Try some. It's supposedly good for you too.

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Originally Posted by iceman

what do we think about glutathione supplements?

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but seriously. Lots of good press for glutathione and N-AC, anybody got, like, an opinion, man?

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Originally Posted by iceman

but seriously. Lots of good press for glutathione and N-AC, anybody got, like, an opinion, man?

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You’re asking about REAL science... common man.... this is a keto thread.

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Originally Posted by iceman

but seriously. Lots of good press for glutathione and N-AC, anybody got, like, an opinion, man?

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This is the top result on google for "glutathione supplements": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3162377/

"Oral GSH supplementation (500 mg twice daily) was given to the volunteers for 4 weeks...No significant changes were observed in biomarkers of oxidative stress, including glutathione status, in this clinical trial of oral glutathione supplementation in healthy adults."

Which makes sense given that it's poorly absorbed orally. Precursors like N-AC may work better to boost endogenous production, but basically all "generally recognized as healthy" foods are rich in precursors and are most likely the best way to get them. So, eat meat/eggs/legumes/tubers/vegetables/fruit, get plenty of sleep, exercise, limit alcohol.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition...se-glutathione

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Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark

Try some. It's supposedly good for you too.

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Probably, but probably not as good as eating actual pumpkin seeds.

What do you put the oil on?

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Probably, but probably not as good as eating actual pumpkin seeds.

What do you put the oil on?

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https://draxe.com/pumpkin-seed-oil/

I drizzle it on almost anything. Mostly greens though.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

get plenty of sleep

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That part sucks. I could get so much stuff done at 2am

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Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark

https://draxe.com/pumpkin-seed-oil/

I drizzle it on almost anything. Mostly greens though.

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I was in Budapest about a year ago and they had a bottle of pumpkin seed oil on the table almost every place we ate. I loved it and we even got some locally when we got home, but it wasn't nearly as good as the stuff we had there.

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Originally Posted by zion zig zag

I was in Budapest about a year ago and they had a bottle of pumpkin seed oil on the table almost every place we ate. I loved it and we even got some locally when we got home, but it wasn't nearly as good as the stuff we had there.

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Yeah. I bring it back when I'm in eastern Austria. It's delicious with carrots.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Probably, but probably not as good as eating actual pumpkin seeds.

What do you put the oil on?

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I stopped eating pumpkin seeds with breakfast after the grocery store near the office stopped carrying them in the bulk section. I should fix that. I usually did a bowl of 1:3:3 pumpkin seeds, uncooked rolled oats, plain yogurt

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Originally Posted by Bromontane

amirite

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The silver goose flies clockwise under the full moon.

A very interesting (mouse) study investigating the relationship between weight loss/fat burning and something known as the receptor for advanced glycation end products (RAGE): https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...oteins/594073/

TL;DR version: Activation of RAGE drastically suppresses fat-burning and BMR. Mice with their RAGE pathway genetically deleted gained 70% less weight than conventional mice when fed an obesigenic diet.

Why does this matter? First, besides being activated directly by AGE, RAGE is activated by stress (including undereating) and overeating. The overeating part makes some evolutionary sense, especially in the context of the relationship between insulin and HSL; a hunter-gatherer who found a food windfall would benefit from preferentially storing those calories as fat. The undereating part does too; if you're not finding enough food conserving your existing fat stores is beneficial to your survival.

Now, transpose that context into modern life where people are typically chronically stressed, chronically overeat, and their bloodstreams are flooded with endogenous AGE from chronic hyperglycemia. AGE are inflammatory, and activation of RAGE activates other pro-inflammatory genes, creating a positive feedback loop. No wonder everyone is fat and sick. Diseases with a known or suspected causal relationship with RAGE include:

Alzheimer's disease
Arthritis
Atherosclerosis
Congestive heart failure
Diabetic neuropathy
Diabetic nephropathy
Diabetic retinopathy
Myocardial infarction
Peripheral vascular disease
Psoriasis
Rheumatoid arthritis
Takayasu's arteritis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanc...on_end-product
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAGE_(receptor)

This whole change has been an interesting journey. Keto is fascinating in its own right, but it also led me to IF, which I practice as a general thing, usually 16/8 but once every week or two I may go 20 hours or longer without eating. Not having to eat, not feeling hungry, is a trip. I still marvel at it.

And I can exercise while doing this. Last summer, when I was new to it, I found I had to take in some carbs (usually gatorade) right before doing something like mt biking, or I would just feel gassed the whole ride whenever I had to charge up a hill. This year, I don't need it. I go biking without the gatorade and feel just fine; I think I must be fully fat adapted, able to burn the fuel at hand. This morning, I had 2 cups of coffee, each with a dollop of heavy cream. At 1pm, I went on a 2 hour mt bike ride, maybe 10 miles and 1300' of climbing (yeah, probably slow pace for some of you people, but that's my pace so fuckit). Hadn't eaten anything. Felt fine, not hungry and not gassed. What the fuck? What is this strange sorcery going on inside my body?

So, yeah, I'm that guy, the punchline to the joke, "how do you tell someone is keto?" (alternate version: ski patroller, raft guide, does crossfit, etc) Answer: they'll tell you. Yeah, me, that guy, lol.

Try that same ride next time and push yourself. No sugar or carbs to utilize, your body won’t be able to do it.


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Originally Posted by smmokan

Try that same ride next time and push yourself. No sugar or carbs to utilize, your body won’t be able to do it.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

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Oh, I know that it's not ideal for anaerobic performance. So what? I'm stronger and faster and lighter than I was a year ago. But yeah, I could be better, is that really your point?

Fire up that grill!

https://www.vox.com/science-and-heal...health-effects

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Originally Posted by Rideski

Fire up that grill!

https://www.vox.com/science-and-heal...health-effects

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"Plus, he added, the new series is an attempt to do something radical: to say the rules of science should apply to nutrition. “Why have one set of rules for judging [nutrition] and another set of rules for some other area?”"

That's awesome.