WASATCH STOKE, CONDITIONS, OBSERVATIONS AND ASSORTED DRIVAL 17-18

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Originally Posted by muted

That's a huge help, thanks. Do you know if it was the first day of the season they tried to control it?

I'd disagree that SB didn't do something wrong if a guest got caught. Whether it was an easy or hard mistake to make I don't know, but it doesn't sound like I will ever know. Following standards is one thing, having 'intuition' (for the lack of a better description) on top of standards is an amazing thing to see.

Disclaimer to people who think patrol can not be questioned: Don't get me wrong, I agree it's never a 100% controllable thing. I've got caught in numerous inbound slides, a great friend died in in-bounds slide. Some places I trust the patrol (Bridger), other places I take extra caution (Snowbird) based on what I know about their patrol. As for SB, I'm new there and don't know much about much. But now I'm spooked.

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No, it was not the first day of control work.

You don't think Bridger hasn't dodged multiple bullets since it opened it's doors? How 'bout Slushman's a couple of years ago, taking out multiple tracks from the day before without much weather change overnight.

Go work for a class A avalanche area for a while and you may not like the realizations you come to but you will understand that the best mitigation and forecasting programs in the country are not immune to getting bit. I've been mitigating avalanches and dishing up powder skiing in the LCC for 38 years and egotistically believe that I have some "intuition". Didn't stop Heather Gross from dying on my watch.

There is a 100% way to have 0 fatalities on a given slope. Don't open it. Is that the kind of ski area you want a pass to? One that has its good shit closed all the time? There is always some risk taken by ski area control programs if they dish up what everyone comes for...powder while it is still powder.

I'm sure Hans is running a good program at the Basin. Known him for years. He has "the stuff". Be grateful he is running a program where you have chosen to ski. Just don't bitch about things being closed while they recover from being bit...

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Originally Posted by muted

Does anyone know precise info on the inbounds Snowbasin slide last week where two people got caught on No Name? It's a place I ski by myself often. I'm pretty annoyed the UAC has not done a full report so I can understand what happened and where. I'd ski differently knowing where it has slid in the past before and info on how exactly the SB patrol made the call to open it and what they did beforehand, but now I just have a spooky feeling skiing out there with no info.

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Uac won't do a report. Resorts are always hush hush on inbounds slides. Uac covers outside the resorts. Just how it works. Maybe I'm wrong, but I know uac didn't cover either the small inbounds slide at Alta couple years back (near sunspot) or the one that killed a girl at bird 5 or 6 years back.

The third hand info posted is what I have heard too or at least damned close. I heard the girl was found with a random probe hit and was under near 10 min. Still sounds about right. Ski down , probe, dig a couple feet 10 min.

Glad everyone is ok. Now you know why you should be beeping in bounds or out

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Originally Posted by telefreewasatch

You don't think Bridger hasn't dodged multiple bullets since it opened it's doors? .

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Bridger is where one my best friends died in bounds, and I still trust them. And I was there helping locate Heather at SB, that was a tiny pocket that went (I think) so I don't blame snowbird patrols for that.

As I said, don't get me wrong.

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Originally Posted by telefreewasatch

How 'bout Slushman's a couple of years ago, taking out multiple tracks from the day before without much weather change overnight.

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that's out of bounds and not controlled.

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Originally Posted by telefreewasatch

I'm sure Hans is running a good program at the Basin. Known him for years. He has "the stuff".

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Good to hear, thanks.

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Originally Posted by monkeywrenchMoose

I would also like a toll system. But only if it was actually well done. What happened to those suggestions they asked for a few months back? Was a UDOT questionnaire asking for suggestions on congestion easing .

In other detrimental Alta news: Alta is done. New GM totally sold them out for more $$$. Greedy fuck.

Alta is part of the new Ikon Pass. Epic Pass competitor. FUCK.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/business...rican-resorts/

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They were already MTN collective no? How does ikon fuck anything up or the new GM "selling out"? Not defending him, I hate mtn collective, so will likely equally hate ikon, but it works for many so....who the fuck am to say?

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Originally Posted by Skidog

Now you know why you should be beeping in bounds or out

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I've been beeping in-bounds since 1992, it was required by Bridger. That's how they found my friend a day later at Bridger, he was skiing alone and no one saw him get caught.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

I would fully support a toll system in LCC if it was implemented well. High day rate with a reasonably priced annual pass like Millcreek/AF, variable daily fees for weekday/weekend, time of day, holidays, etc., fees used to fund improved and cheaper public transit options, fees for daily users kick in at Snowbird Entry 1 so dispersed users lower in the canyon who can't use the bus get spared.

Hah, like that will ever happen. It'll be flat daily rates only, they'll charge everyone at the mouth, raise bus fees at the same time, and dump all the proceeds into the general fund.

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Your idea of using fees to subsidize improved and cheaper public transportation options sounds good except UTA (public transportation systems across the country) lose money on every customer. They can do anything they want to make things better but it makes no difference how much they charge, they won't cover the cost of service.

So I guess Town of Alta residents will pay the toll as well as employees driving up the canyon. How about Alta and Snowbird vehicles? What does this do to the Town of Alta's plans to build a business district? I am sure this will reduce summer visitors if they have to pay every time they drive up the canyon.

Strong prefrontal winds for the last 24 hours, started snowing pretty hard up LCC around 2p


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Originally Posted by telefreewasatch

No, it was not the first day of control work.

You don't think Bridger hasn't dodged multiple bullets since it opened it's doors? How 'bout Slushman's a couple of years ago, taking out multiple tracks from the day before without much weather change overnight.

Go work for a class A avalanche area for a while and you may not like the realizations you come to but you will understand that the best mitigation and forecasting programs in the country are not immune to getting bit. I've been mitigating avalanches and dishing up powder skiing in the LCC for 38 years and egotistically believe that I have some "intuition". Didn't stop Heather Gross from dying on my watch.

There is a 100% way to have 0 fatalities on a given slope. Don't open it. Is that the kind of ski area you want a pass to? One that has its good shit closed all the time? There is always some risk taken by ski area control programs if they dish up what everyone comes for...powder while it is still powder.

I'm sure Hans is running a good program at the Basin. Known him for years. He has "the stuff". Be grateful he is running a program where you have chosen to ski. Just don't bitch about things being closed while they recover from being bit...

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Very well said, thanks. I would speculate that No Name is some of the more complicated terrain to mitigate in the Wasatch. It can also be scary as fuck to do so. And I know for a fact that the patrol takes it very seriously.
Hans is still number 2 at SB snow safety, right? Still, he has years of endless wintering between here and New Zealand. As well as experience in AK, Gulmarg, The Rubies....yeah he's got some intuition.

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Originally Posted by Skidog

They were already MTN collective no? How does ikon fuck anything up or the new GM "selling out"? Not defending him, I hate mtn collective, so will likely equally hate ikon, but it works for many so....who the fuck am to say?

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The way I understand it from the tribune article is that they (Ikon Pass) are wanting to be a direct competitor to Epic Pass. Epic pass offers unlimited skiing and riding at all of their participating resorts, effectively turning it into a season pass at all of their participating resorts.

If Alta now essentially offers an Alta-Bird pass for real cheap, it will only exacerbate the local crowding problem. I highly doubt it will really add all that much to their tourism dollars because those people will now be spending ~$850 on a pass who's profits have to be shared with 10 or so other resorts.

So, in essence, I'm pissed about it because parking already sucks, lift lines already suck and on top of that now this pass will probably pull about ~20% more locals up LCC who would have otherwise bought either season passes or Epic Passes to PC/Canyons, and Brighton.

I guess this means I'm getting old.

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Originally Posted by monkeywrenchMoose

The way I understand it from the tribune article is that they (Ikon Pass) are wanting to be a direct competitor to Epic Pass. Epic pass offers unlimited skiing and riding at all of their participating resorts, effectively turning it into a season pass at all of their participating resorts.

If Alta now essentially offers an Alta-Bird pass for real cheap, it will only exacerbate the local crowding problem. I highly doubt it will really add all that much to their tourism dollars because those people will now be spending ~$850 on a pass who's profits have to be shared with 10 or so other resorts.

So, in essence, I'm pissed about it because parking already sucks, lift lines already suck and on top of that now this pass will probably pull about ~20% more locals up LCC who would have otherwise bought either season passes or Epic Passes to PC/Canyons, and Brighton.

I guess this means I'm getting old.

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Ahhh I misunderstood the pass then...yeah that would be a fuckshow huh....? Guess we wait to see what the prices are. I have had a feeling for few years that the Utah resorts we're due for a price war due to Vail/epic..guess it's starting.

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Originally Posted by Skidog

Ahhh I misunderstood the pass then...yeah that would be a fuckshow huh....? Guess we wait to see what the prices are. I have had a feeling for few years that the Utah resorts we're due for a price war due to Vail/epic..guess it's starting.

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The pessimism is strong with me. I'm super bummed out. Someone convince me why this is a good thing?

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Originally Posted by monkeywrenchMoose

The pessimism is strong with me. I'm super bummed out. Someone convince me why this is a good thing?

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I’m sitting up in solitude village watching the snow pile up and saw the news. I was wondering where those leaves the bcc resorts. No more wasatch pass benefits I’m sure. Not sure lcc can handle the marauding hordes of 699 pass holders.
What I always wonder is, if skier visits are down why are so many resorts so crowded all the time.

I was just thinking the timing of the toll news and ikon news fall on same day. Maybe one has nothing to do with the other, but the ikon will surely bring more traffic as mentioned.

Now that I see the details of ikon being an epic pass competitor i agree with the sell out of new Alta gm.

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How much snow is building up?

I'm down in the valley currently, hoping this storm overdelivers.

Looks like about 4" here currently at Powder Mt.

5” big cottonwood @ 7pm

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Originally Posted by monkeywrenchMoose

The way I understand it from the tribune article is that they (Ikon Pass) are wanting to be a direct competitor to Epic Pass. Epic pass offers unlimited skiing and riding at all of their participating resorts, effectively turning it into a season pass at all of their participating resorts.

If Alta now essentially offers an Alta-Bird pass for real cheap, it will only exacerbate the local crowding problem. I highly doubt it will really add all that much to their tourism dollars because those people will now be spending ~$850 on a pass who's profits have to be shared with 10 or so other resorts.



I guess this means I'm getting old.

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More likely, you live in a city with really good skiing nearby. Deal with it, you live in city.

How would you feel if the pass prices actually went up?

Its would probably be the best thing for LCC.

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Originally Posted by Shredhead

More likely, you live in a city with really good skiing nearby. Deal with it, you live in city.

How would you feel if the pass prices actually went up?

Its would probably the best thing for LCC.

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Sure, deal with it, I live in a city with good skiing near by. I get that sentiment.

But can you understand the feeling? The best part about Alta (aside from the snow obviously) is the culture. It does not have that corporate culture that nearly every other resort I've been to has. That culture, combined with the world class snow is EXACTLY what makes Alta special and is why they are regarded as one of the best areas in the world. No where else have I skied where you routinely pull into the lift maze and everyone is smiling and happy without all the grumpy powder panic people. Even on a powder day, like last Sunday for example.

I would actually really welcome an increase in pass prices for exactly the reason you state. It would limit the LCC traffic.

Alta prides themselves on "the skiing experience". (They say so in their Ikon press release and even on the early season whiteboard on Collins when they were only loading every other chair). I like that and I take that to mean they pride themselves on the way the mountain skis, and that is largely due to the people who are on the mountain.

But the thing is that Onno actually realized what that meant and realized how important it was. This new GM just took that feeling and said "Hey, that sounds like a good marketing slogan." And because he is just a fucking business guy, not a skier, he ran with it and couldn't see the forrest through the trees. That is what makes me fucking pissed.

I'm so fucking sick of people being unable to recognize subtlety. And yes, I recognize the irony in me saying that while ranting with anything but subtlety. The point still stands.

IKon not believe the even bigger Epic traffic shitshow LCC will Collectively become.

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Originally Posted by zion zig zag

Very well said, thanks. I would speculate that No Name is some of the more complicated terrain to mitigate in the Wasatch. It can also be scary as fuck to do so. And I know for a fact that the patrol takes it very seriously.
Hans is still number 2 at SB snow safety, right? Still, he has years of endless wintering between here and New Zealand. As well as experience in AK, Gulmarg, The Rubies....yeah he's got some intuition.

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I'm thinking he's in charge of the program now but could be wrong. Just sat next to him for 2 hours this evening at a WBR coordinator's meeting and do not know for sure. Did hear the events of the other day first hand. This was a post control event with air blasts and Gasex exploders used in the starting zone. They feel super lucky on the outcome and praise their lucky stars.

I've been playing the canyon drive crap for 23 seasons now. Every year it seems to have gotten a bit busier. I'm the problem, I'm the average dedicated skier living in the valley. I drive my car up there 50-70 times a season, about 25-35 of them I have my buddy Travis with me (He lives in my neighborhood.). The rest I drive up there myself in my car. I boot up in the lot, I bring shit to eat after skiing and a bit of wine.

I leave my house at specific times for the most part, knowing how early I'll have to be to not deal with traffic. This season I paid $250 for a preferred parking pass at Snowbird. It's going to be hard to get me to stop driving up that canyon.

Public transportation in the canyon sucks, there is pretty much no way I'd submit myself to that situation in it's current affair. I have friends that do the bus thing and I admire them for it, it ain't for me. Like I said, I'm the problem.

Tolls aren't going to do shit about it, I'll pay, tourists that increase in numbers every season will pay. It will fill the coffers of the legislature and do little to solve the problem. They haven't been very proactive in any measure in the years I've been here. The problem just keeps increasing and now a toll has been suggested to keep the traffic from infringing on a state senator's ability to exit his domicile near the mouth of the canyon.

I don't have a solution mainly because I ain't paid to have a solution. But, the folks that are tasked and paid with that shit haven't seemed to care.

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Originally Posted by telefreewasatch

Go work for a class A avalanche area for a while and you may not like the realizations you come to but you will understand that the best mitigation and forecasting programs in the country are not immune to getting bit. I've been mitigating avalanches and dishing up powder skiing in the LCC for 38 years and egotistically believe that I have some "intuition". Didn't stop Heather Gross from dying on my watch.

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Snowbird is rowdy as fuck, the snow safety team is top notch. My hat is off to you guys. Stay safe out there my friends! There is a greater than 50% chance I may be back in a bird pass sometime. Stoke meter is pegged! BobMc lets workout the carpool rotation

Quick 8 maybe 10 at brighton for best pow night so far this season! Hotlaps were order of the eve. Spun out Tesla S was the highlight of the canyon shitshow.

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Originally Posted by BobMc

I've been playing the canyon drive crap for 23 seasons now. Every year it seems to have gotten a bit busier. I'm the problem, I'm the average dedicated skier living in the valley. I drive my car up there 50-70 times a season, about 25-35 of them I have my buddy Travis with me (He lives in my neighborhood.). The rest I drive up there myself in my car. I boot up in the lot, I bring shit to eat after skiing and a bit of wine.

I leave my house at specific times for the most part, knowing how early I'll have to be to not deal with traffic. This season I paid $250 for a preferred parking pass at Snowbird. It's going to be hard to get me to stop driving up that canyon.

Public transportation in the canyon sucks, there is pretty much no way I'd submit myself to that situation in it's current affair. I have friends that do the bus thing and I admire them for it, it ain't for me. Like I said, I'm the problem.

Tolls aren't going to do shit about it, I'll pay, tourists that increase in numbers every season will pay. It will fill the coffers of the legislature and do little to solve the problem. They haven't been very proactive in any measure in the years I've been here. The problem just keeps increasing and now a toll has been suggested to keep the traffic from infringing on a state senator's ability to exit his domicile near the mouth of the canyon.

I don't have a solution mainly because I ain't paid to have a solution. But, the folks that are tasked and paid with that shit haven't seemed to care.

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This is the truth. I'm guilty too. And I recognize the hypocrisy of it. But fuck me for wanting actual solutions right?

I guess this is what pisses me off. Tolls don't fix the problem, they just cost me money. I am unaware of a bus solution, every 15 minutes was a big improvement but standing for two hrs + on the way down with no place to piss is painful. Adding more buses or Alta only buses would not change that. For two people that is $19 a day. From day one of the transportation solutions (cog rail) I said the cost would be billions. That was confirmed yesterday when the state Senate said that is not an option due to cost. On big days when the parking lot at Alta is full the mountain is at capacity. Can't we accept that and turn people away? Why are ski areas not sold out? The Jazz are sold out, Zion NP turns people away, I couldn't get a ticket to Star Wars opening day but we send too many people up LCC. I still think all this hand wringing for a few days over the course of a 150 day season is overkill. As I said previously, I 70 to Denver is a two + hour mess every Sunday and four if it snowing, LCC is no where close to being that bad.

^That's my other question. Why the hell should I have to pay a toll on a random Tuesday morning when it hasn't snowed in a week and the canyon is empty? Do people have to pay a toll to drive down I15 at 8 AM to encourage them to carpool?