The TGR Skinny Ski Ski Tourers' Refuge Thread

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Originally Posted by beowulf122

Seeking some advice from the collective here.

About to mount up some new sticks with v1 trab varios but am having cold feet. I have a dropped 2nd metatarsal on my left foot that is easily inflamed on tours if I spend too much time in an elevated heel position on flatter terrain. I predominantly use the flat position while touring but with the majority of my riding being in the Wasatch it's not uncommon for me to hit a steeper skinner that requires the usage of a riser. In such cases I will quickly revert back to a flat position as the angle decreases.

Am I going to hate my life with a race style heel where the flat mode and a riser require bending down to rotate the heel piece? Has anyone had success with rotating vario heels with just their pole?

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This is basically the reason I swapped out trofeos on all my skis for either haute routes or Alpinists. I also hate having a riser when the terrain gets marginally flat (I think I have a mortons neruoma type situation and that definitely irritates my nerves). The trofeo in particular is very difficult to rotate to get between flat and riser.

I much prefer bindings that have a flat and medium/high option that can be toggled with a pole. That being said I don't think trabs are as hard to rotate as trofeos. I have a pair of gara titans on my skinny skis and having to rotate them is annoying but tolerable.

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Originally Posted by fleaches

This is basically the reason I swapped out trofeos on all my skis for either haute routes or Alpinists. I also hate having a riser when the terrain gets marginally flat. The trofeo in particular is very difficult to rotate to get between flat and riser.

I much prefer bindings that have a flat and medium/high option that can be toggled with a pole. That being said I don't think trabs are as hard to rotate as trofeos.

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well, I was coming here to ask for help in picking a binding. Was debating between Haute Route, Trofeo, Alpinist, Superlight 150.

I have similar preferences.
Sounds like you have answered for 2 of those at least already.

I currently have Haute Route on my 179 cm, 85mm skis, new last year. Haven’t skied them in challenging snow. On easy snow they worked fine.

Just bought some Alpinists for my new Locator 112. Haven’t mounted or skied them yet.

I had Crests on the skis I sold, and have used them for a while. No problems with them, other than brake lock up sometimes icing.


So: Alpinist or Haute Route, or Crests?

This will be for my new, all around AT ski, 95-100mm, ~186 cm long, “daily driver”,including hut to hut trips in the Alps.
I ski slowly and cautiously in the BC. I want low ramp angle (either stock or shimmed). Flat skinning mode. Don’t need very high risers.

Alpinists are by far the cheapest.
Crests are next cheapest
Haute Route cost quite a bit more, but also by far the lightest.
besides the grams/dollar, any other reasons to pick one over the other? That you’d notice in use I mean?

The alpinist skis noticeably better than the haute route, i haven’t skied a crest but i hear the alpinist is better than the crest too. I have it on all of my touring skis because of that and the price, 250 or less from europe


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Originally Posted by ezgzy

The alpinist skis noticeably better than the haute route, i haven’t skied a crest but i hear the alpinist is better than the crest too. I have it on all of my touring skis because of that and the price, 250 or less from europe

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Interesting. Can you elaborate on "skis noticeably better" ?

less transmission of vibration? more precise connection to the ski? more consistent release? something else? I'm currently on the haute route, it works ok for me but always good to learn of something potentially better.

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Originally Posted by Tjaardbreeuwer

I currently have Haute Route on my 179 cm, 85mm skis, new last year. Haven’t skied them in challenging snow. On easy snow they worked fine.

Just bought some Alpinists for my new Locator 112. Haven’t mounted or skied them yet.

I had Crests on the skis I sold, and have used them for a while. No problems with them, other than brake lock up sometimes icing.


So: Alpinist or Haute Route, or Crests?

This will be for my new, all around AT ski, 95-100mm, ~186 cm long, “daily driver”,including hut to hut trips in the Alps.
I ski slowly and cautiously in the BC. I want low ramp angle (either stock or shimmed). Flat skinning mode. Don’t need very high risers.

Alpinists are by far the cheapest.
Crests are next cheapest
Haute Route cost quite a bit more, but also by far the lightest.
besides the grams/dollar, any other reasons to pick one over the other? That you’d notice in use I mean?

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If you want low ramp you probably want the haute route or alpinist, I think the unshimmed crest has kind of a high delta.

I also had crests for a few years and I think they ski pretty similarly to haute routes but I just don't like brakes and like that the haute route is a little lighter.

It's true the Alpinist skis a bit better. I have heard of them breaking occasionally (obviously much more plastic than the atk offerings), but I haven't personally encountered this.

I think there's also a new haute route out this year that has a second riser option. Even if that's not appealing it might mean that the older version can be found on sale?

I like all three of those options a lot, and I'd probably just get whicher I could find a good deal on unless I was really counting grams.

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Originally Posted by TG

Interesting. Can you elaborate on "skis noticeably better" ?

less transmission of vibration? more precise connection to the ski? more consistent release? something else? I'm currently on the haute route, it works ok for me but always good to learn of something potentially better.

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I think it’s a combination of delta like fleaches said and the gapless heel with the small amount of elasticity which absorbs vibrations well. The plastic construction may also help with that but i couldn’t say


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Originally Posted by fleaches

If you want low ramp you probably want the haute route or alpinist, I think the unshimmed crest has kind of a high delta.

I also had crests for a few years and I think they ski pretty similarly to haute routes but I just don't like brakes and like that the haute route is a little lighter.

It's true the Alpinist skis a bit better. I have heard of them breaking occasionally (obviously much more plastic than the atk offerings), but I haven't personally encountered this.

I think there's also a new haute route out this year that has a second riser option. Even if that's not appealing it might mean that the older version can be found on sale?

I like all three of those options a lot, and I'd probably just get whicher I could find a good deal on unless I was really counting grams.

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Hr + heel spacer is the best skiing setup out there for the weight, imo

Yes, I should have clarified, I shim all my Crests. I did count the shims in the weight differences. Puts the Crests just over the Alpinists for weight.

Yes, there’s a Haute Route plus now, but the lowest price for the regular (fine for me, don’t need the new, higher riser) is still ~430 shipped, vs ~250 for the Alpinist and in between for the Crest.

Where are people still finding alpinist 12s for $250? I’ve checked all the usual euro sites and I’m not seeing any at that price. I do think the alpinist is the best skiing light weight tech binding. I love the low ramp. I find Dynafit bindings basically unskiable due to their ramp. Even the Salomon mtn has too much ramp for me, I like everything else about the binding though.


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Originally Posted by altacoup

Where are people still finding alpinist 12s for $250? I’ve checked all the usual euro sites and I’m not seeing any at that price. I do think the alpinist is the best skiing light weight tech binding. I love the low ramp. I find Dynafit bindings basically unskiable due to their ramp. Even the Salomon mtn has too much ramp for me, I like everything else about the binding though.


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I got all my pairs from varuste. Before the euro rebounded they were like 230 on there


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Originally Posted by altacoup

Where are people still finding alpinist 12s for $250? I’ve checked all the usual euro sites and I’m not seeing any at that price. I do think the alpinist is the best skiing light weight tech binding. I love the low ramp. I find Dynafit bindings basically unskiable due to their ramp. Even the Salomon mtn has too much ramp for me, I like everything else about the binding though.


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Not sure about the 12s but I got a couple pairs of 10s for under $200 shipped last winter from snowcountry.eu.

But yeah not as good of deals now with the stronger euro

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Yeah, I would get the 10 (usually set my bindings at 7 or 8). Still seeing the Alpinist 10 on good prices.

There was a Haute Route 8 for a good price online, but even though that means I should be able to get the setting I need, I’d worry that after skiing it for a while, I’d find out that I want to dial up RV, and be SOL.

Makes sense. I bought 2 pairs last year for great prices olinuid and varuste. Besides euro fluctuations, there was an update to the binding so I’m sure they were blowing out the old models. I was just confused as people keep mentioning the low prices and I’m not seeing them.


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I don’t have an issue reaching down and twisting the heels on my Trab vario 1.0, it’s my favorite binding for sure. Mounted on a BD adjustment track.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by beowulf122

Seeking some advice from the collective here.

About to mount up some new sticks with v1 trab varios but am having cold feet. I have a dropped 2nd metatarsal on my left foot that is easily inflamed on tours if I spend too much time in an elevated heel position on flatter terrain. I predominantly use the flat position while touring but with the majority of my riding being in the Wasatch it's not uncommon for me to hit a steeper skinner that requires the usage of a riser. In such cases I will quickly revert back to a flat position as the angle decreases.

Am I going to hate my life with a race style heel where the flat mode and a riser require bending down to rotate the heel piece? Has anyone had success with rotating vario heels with just their pole?

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Pm me if you want insert ideas to deal with your dropped met.

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Originally Posted by altacoup

Where are people still finding alpinist 12s for $250?

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https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...er-Alpinist-12

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question: do ppl like vario2 heels for any reason?

i just got a pair of magico2 used with vario2s alrdy on them. the heel seems unnecessarily heavy for the ski and i want to swap it out for plum 145 heel i have laying around. weighing any downsides before i put more holes in this ski.

as an added note ill be mounting the 145s on an adjustment plate to minimize delta (i think the toes come with the trab shim alrdy).


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Well, despite being a weight weeny, I decided to save some money instead, and grabbed the Alpinist. Since it’s going on a 98mm ski (new Wayback 98), it doesn’t qualify for this thread anyway I guess :biggrin:

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Originally Posted by ktoor

question: do ppl like vario2 heels for any reason?

i just got a pair of magico2 used with vario2s alrdy on them. the heel seems unnecessarily heavy for the ski and i want to swap it out for plum 145 heel i have laying around. weighing any downsides before i put more holes in this ski.

as an added note ill be mounting the 145s on an adjustment plate to minimize delta (i think the toes come with the trab shim alrdy).

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If you're using an adjustment plate then you will only be saving around ~70g, probably not worth the hassle and extra holes. Vario heels are the best on the market IMO, very elastic and good retention and release when you need them to. The Vario.2 is annoying because you have to use the spring loaded heel track due to the gapless design which weighs 80g, vs a regular adjustment plate which weighs 30g. The Plum heel turret is probably another 20-30g lighter than the Vario. I prefer the original Vario, shame they don't make it anymore.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ktoor

question: do ppl like vario2 heels for any reason?

i just got a pair of magico2 used with vario2s alrdy on them. the heel seems unnecessarily heavy for the ski and i want to swap it out for plum 145 heel i have laying around. weighing any downsides before i put more holes in this ski.

as an added note ill be mounting the 145s on an adjustment plate to minimize delta (i think the toes come with the trab shim alrdy).


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vario2 heel seems robust, if overengineered.

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Originally Posted by Benneke10

If you're using an adjustment plate then you will only be saving around ~70g, probably not worth the hassle and extra holes. Vario heels are the best on the market IMO, very elastic and good retention and release when you need them to. The Vario.2 is annoying because you have to use the spring loaded heel track due to the gapless design which weighs 80g, vs a regular adjustment plate which weighs 30g. The Plum heel turret is probably another 20-30g lighter than the Vario. I prefer the original Vario, shame they don't make it anymore.

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thanks for the input! to "crunch" the numbers (only here as id be embarassed in any other thread...) from what i can see the vario2 heel is about 228g (309g stated weight minus 81g toe piece) vs 62g heel of plum + 44g adjustment plate = 106g. meaning the difference is 122g. this is obviously *very* important as its the difference between a ~1280g setup and an ~1160g setup!

info about the heel elasticity was the type i was after as there seems to be a material advantage to keeping them even on a mountaineering setup. ill give em a few resort laps and see if i take to them.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ktoor

thanks for the input! to "crunch" the numbers (only here as id be embarassed in any other thread...) from what i can see the vario2 heel is about 228g (309g stated weight minus 81g toe piece) vs 62g heel of plum + 44g adjustment plate = 106g. meaning the difference is 122g. this is obviously *very* important as its the difference between a ~1280g setup and an ~1160g setup!

info about the heel elasticity was the type i was after as there seems to be a material advantage to keeping them even on a mountaineering setup. ill give em a few resort laps and see if i take to them.


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I thought the Vario.2 weighed in at around 250g total? Skimo co has them at 254g with verified specs. I don't know where the extra weight would come from, I have personally weighed the adjustment track at around 80g.

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Originally Posted by Benneke10

I thought the Vario.2 weighed in at around 250g total? Skimo co has them at 254g with verified specs. I don't know where the extra weight would come from, I have personally weighed the adjustment track at around 80g.

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hmm thats interesting. it does say its 254g verified but on ski trab website says 309g. theres a comment on skimoco as well about it but may be the case its only 254g.

ill give em a go and see how they feel. very excited to check out the ski trab hype.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ktoor

hmm thats interesting. it does say its 254g verified but on ski trab website says 309g. theres a comment on skimoco as well about it but may be the case its only 254g.

ill give em a go and see how they feel. very excited to check out the ski trab hype.


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With brakes but here are some weights:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/zmga5SDCrF85LUKy6

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Originally Posted by Westcoaster

With brakes but here are some weights:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/zmga5SDCrF85LUKy6

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thanks westcoaster! this looks more in line with the 254 measurement by skimoco without brakes given how chunky them brakes look.


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Which one of you wrote this?


Attachment 482557

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Originally Posted by Jonathan S.

Which one of you wrote this?


Attachment 482557

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hahaha i saw this too and had a big chuckle. solid gold. well done whoever it was.


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Originally Posted by ktoor

hahaha i saw this too and had a big chuckle. solid gold. well done whoever it was.


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Soon to be deleted for sure.

What are folks' thoughts on multiple mounts on race skis? I've got a line on a good deal for a complete setup, but it's already been mounted twice (282 and 309 bsl), and I would be drilling a 3rd set of holes in it (294 bsl). I wouldn't be particularly worried about this with a heavier, more durable ski, but with a race setup...

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Originally Posted by Jeb McHardman

What are folks' thoughts on multiple mounts on race skis? I've got a line on a good deal for a complete setup, but it's already been mounted twice (282 and 309 bsl), and I would be drilling a 3rd set of holes in it (294 bsl). I wouldn't be particularly worried about this with a heavier, more durable ski, but with a race setup...

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Go for it. The underfoot part of those skis is the only part that can take some abuse, and your BSL splits the old ones well.

If there’s any adjustability with either the toe or heel (don’t know what bindings you’re using) you might be able to move either the heel or toe back to the old holes and make it work too

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Originally Posted by Climber Joe

Go for it. The underfoot part of those skis is the only part that can take some abuse, and your BSL splits the old ones well.

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Good to hear. That was my thought, but glad to have it confirmed. The bindings don't have any adjustability, but they do evenly split the old holes, so it should work out well

I have race skis on their third mount, and they've been doing fine. The main worry I'd have is hole spacing - if the mount pattern is the same, the holes for 294 will be 6mm c-c from the 282 ones. If it was me I'd consider reusing the 282 mount for the toe (i.e. moving the mount back 6mm), and using an adjustable plate for the heel (if available).

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Originally Posted by Jeb McHardman

What are folks' thoughts on multiple mounts on race skis? I've got a line on a good deal for a complete setup, but it's already been mounted twice (282 and 309 bsl), and I would be drilling a 3rd set of holes in it (294 bsl). I wouldn't be particularly worried about this with a heavier, more durable ski, but with a race setup...

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Some race skis are designed for the toe to be mounted on a "pin line" regardless of BSL, which can make remounts easier. On an unrelated note, I have some race skis I need to get rid of and would give a mag a great price...

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Originally Posted by Benneke10

Some race skis are designed for the toe to be mounted on a "pin line" regardless of BSL, which can make remounts easier. On an unrelated note, I have some race skis I need to get rid of and would give a mag a great price...

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Which skis are they and how much are you asking for?

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Originally Posted by Jeb McHardman

Which skis are they and how much are you asking for?

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Atomic Backland UL 65 https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/74331602

I'd do $600 with bindings + ship for mags. I also have a friend selling used Dynastar Pierre Menta skis with ATKs with heel plates that would fit your BSL, I could facilitate for those if interested, $500 with bindings. Subtract $275 on either ski if you want them flat.

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Originally Posted by Benneke10

Atomic Backland UL 65 https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/74331602

I'd do $600 with bindings + ship for mags. I also have a friend selling used Dynastar Pierre Menta skis with ATKs with heel plates that would fit your BSL, I could facilitate for those if interested, $500 with bindings. Subtract $275 on either ski if you want them flat.

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Hm, I am interested, especially in the Dynastar setup. Let me get in touch with my friend who found the other deal and make sure he didn't already purchase it

I have two different pairs of race skis that I have mounted with three sets of heel holes.
And the holes are overlapping!
But that's with a Hagan race ski with an internal mounting plate, which has amazing retention powers.
As for structural integrity, I fill the old holes with JB Weld (i.e., not just plastic plugs).
Each successive mount though was slightly longer. I worry about plugged holes that are immediately behind the tail edge of the binding plate, as that tail edge is always acting as a fulcrum on the ski, and if the ski is weaker there b/c of a prior mount...

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Originally Posted by Benneke10

Atomic Backland UL 65 https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/74331602

I'd do $600 with bindings + ship for mags. I also have a friend selling used Dynastar Pierre Menta skis with ATKs with heel plates that would fit your BSL, I could facilitate for those if interested, $500 with bindings. Subtract $275 on either ski if you want them flat.

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I hear those Dynastar Pierra Menta race skis are supposed to be especially good in firm conditions -- like a skimo race ski designed specifically for New England!