Would be fine, but marginal difference over something a bit more bomber like trofeo is not really there. Also no flat mode.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benneke10
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Would be fine, but marginal difference over something a bit more bomber like trofeo is not really there. Also no flat mode.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benneke10
Yeah Im a bit concerned about no flat mode. I'd prefer a Trofeo but I can get the World Cups cheaper right now.. I know first world problemsQuote:
Originally Posted by Westcoaster
How cheap? Just ordered trofeo for 280$.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benneke10
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Cheap enough that I'm asking strangers for advice. That said I may just cough up a few extra bucks to get the flat mode on the TrofeoQuote:
Originally Posted by mt_wilson
I have skied WC on 85 underfoot no problem.
Some thoughts, trofeo differ from WC in both toe and heel. Toe for WC is very similar to Haute Route 10, may even be the same toe. I have no worries about the toe breaking. The heel is very simple, I think the biggest difference between them is the U spring and flap cover. Flap cover on Trofeo is MUCH stronger, but recently they have made improvements to the flap on the WC. Also with the RIS on the new WC springs I see no problem skiing more difficult and committing terrain.
Personally I think you don't get much going to Trofeo except less cost. If they were the same price I would go with WC every day. I think the next step up in performance that is worth anything is the RT10(or Crest10 to save $)
Thank you Timmalo that is very helpful. Are you worried about the heel flap breaking on the WC? That would certainly cause a bad day especially without a flat mode
Also, since I'm spamming this thread I should add that I got replacement elasticity springs for my Crest bindings from ATK, they are MUCH stiffer than the stock springs. I played with friend's bindings and test bindings at skimo (Crest and Release 10) and they were all varying degrees of soft/squishy. The new ones are stiff AF.
Depending on the year, yes, very worried. between me and my wife we have broken 5 individual heel flaps. However we have not broken any of the newer iteration(started shipping mid/early season of 19/20). I don't think it was ever a day ending breakage, it would still hold on enough to get home and there is actually a flat mode on these bindings, it just don't work ideally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benneke10
Before you get too concerned about the 5 broken flaps, consider we have been running these bindings for 7 years and currently have 4 pairs mounted on different skis(3 pr race skis, 1 pr on 77 underfoot, last year had a pair on 86 underfoot and loved it)
Pm’ed I’ll def take those off your handsQuote:
Originally Posted by fleaches
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Anyone tried the new Freeraider 16 yet? I know there is less ramp-angle with the built in shim but how much less?
The delta on the Freeraider 16 is 11mm but it comes complete with a pair of 4mm shims (& longer screws) to reduce that to 7mm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreemcheese
The 4mm shims (with screws) fit all the Raider models and are available seperately.
Thank you almighty spyderjon, always providing for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyderjon
Any more info/pictures/specs of the FR16 online ?
It's the same as the Freeraider 14 in every respect apart from being 9-16 din, being black and the shims are included.Quote:
Originally Posted by stuntmanbo
Anybody got a picture of the new Revolution Brake WC?
https://thepillmagazine.com/atk-bind...ke-wc/?lang=en
Galby Thom - would you mind adding the ATK-made, Moment-branded Voyager XIV to this front page? Would be good to see it all together.Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
Stack heights, etc. are here: under Specs - https://www.momentskis.com/products/voyager-xiv
I'll look into this.Quote:
Originally Posted by meter-man
I was stumped with how to cross reference ATK's multiple, back and forth name changes (e.g. Freeraider 14 becomes Front 14, etc), combined with the rebranded Helio, Hagan, and now Moment equivalents.
In the case of Helios and Moments, there are OEM specified changes to the Raider 12 - two additional versions (Helio 350 & Voyager).
It's a mind-boggling data modeling problem ;-) Yeah, I could introduce a model year column which could solve most of this, but there's no definitive way of confirming much of this at this point.
Most of the earlier questions had to do with model confusion (main features), and the cross reference column was really helpful, but maybe the time has come to nix that column and just have current year models with an extensive notes field?
... Thom
C-Crest 10, Crest heel, C-Raider toe : https://www.majestyskis.com/skis/bin...sty-c-crest-10
Cool combo, not available in the US yet thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by stuntmanbo
Here it is for sale already in Sweden, they got 3 pairs. https://areskidsport.se/produkt/atk-freerider-16/Quote:
Originally Posted by stuntmanbo
6800kr (801 usd) for the 16 vs freeraider 14, 6300kr (740usd)
Depending on where you live or intend to ski, flat mode for mountaineering might be really, really nice to have. If you wanted to, eg, cross Jackson Lake to ski the skillet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benneke10
On another note, Mt_Wilson, where did you order Trofeos for 280?
T-P in yurp has them at that priceQuote:
Originally Posted by CirqueScaler
Also older models? With front brakes? Anyhow, do you know where to buy plates seperately? Through you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyderjon
Yep telemark Pyrenees. I think shipping $40 but i got 2 pairs and some new poles [emoji16]. They’re arriving today and ordered Monday which is cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by m10536
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It would be nice to see a lower RV raider get the shim+spacer in a package. With all the combos of toes and heels ATK has you'd think they could find a market for it. The FR14 is tempting right now at 475 from telemark but being a lightweight 130lbs the min RV is a bit high. I've yet to see the R12 for less than that without the spacer. Is the spacer not noticable unless you are 200lb+?
I'm 68kg and the spacer IS noticable.
Like you I wish the R12 + spacer was cheaper than the FR14.
I set my DIN at 8 and I'm not comfortable using a LT (non normed) binding at the very first value of the range. So I pay a few chf more to get the R12 + spacer.
Agreed. I'm not so worried about using the lowest setting as I am the lowest setting being higher than the indictor says. I could get away with an 8 especially steep skiing but when I had my crests tested with a vermont they released around an 8-11 (boot depending) when set to a 7 vs a 7-8 with brakes removed. That's been my experience with most all low tech and brakes. Anyone seen any r12s or any of the lower RV raider variations going for $500 or less? The $100 upcharge for the binding plus spacer is noticable
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyderjon
The new 4mm shims will also work with the Front 12. Yes, I'll be selling them and any other ATK has access to them but I don't know if the ski brands that are offering rebranded bindings have access to ATK's full range of products.Quote:
Originally Posted by sf
That's something I'm working on for next season. It's a ludicrous quirk of ATK's pricing structure that the FR14 inc the spacers is cheaper than the R12 + the spacers. I did tell them last season but I've recently received their 21/22 pricing and the same problem continues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Climbers Right
ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by Spyderjon
I took this into my local shop, and they said it's a known issue with these bindings. They said that the solution was to widen the crampon holder screws but that keeping the crampon holders as mounted (ie jankily) would be fine because the ski crampon pushes the holder into the toe piece during use.Quote:
Originally Posted by CirqueScaler
I'll probably try to drill it out a bit bigger. Looks pretty easy.
A few observations on these binders. I have the earlier front-mounted brake FR14 2.0 as well as the later rear brake with floating stomp pad version FreeRaider 14. I have also mounted a pair of race RT lightweight 2.0s on my daughter's skis, and a pair of BD Helio 350s on my wife's skis (156cm K2 Talkback -- holy crap is this rig light). I have skied the FR14 2.0 extensively over two seasons, including a week long hut-to-hut trip across the dolomites (my daughter also took her RT's on that trip). I have skied the newer Freeraider 14 for about a season and a half, up and around tahoe and the eastside. So i have some observations across these different bindings.
I prefer the front brake 2.0s (and the RT front brake version) better than the newer back brake version. The stomp pad is simpler, and although the front brake looks odd and you get quizzical looks, it just Fn works. The rear brake on the newer version is prone to icing, and after repeated use trying to get the brake bar to lock under the catch clip, one of my skis only works half the time. If there's any ice in the spring channel, it prevents the button from being pushed in all the way and if you force the brake down you can slightly bend the bar or deform the catch clip. That seems to be what's happened to mine (will post pics).
I also had a number of prereleases from the toe in touring mode (yes, levers were locked), all with F1s. One particularly gnarly incident saw me kind of skating up a small rise above a lake when the left ski inexplicably popped off and starting running away down the slope and into the half frozen lake. Dove after it like a total jong but it eluded my grasp. Fortunately the ski was caught by the only little bush on the steep lakeshore, and i was pole belayed down a 6 foot drop to retrieve it. Yikes. After this trip I reset the toe hardness to "firm" and haven't had issues since. I have never prereleased in ski mode. I weigh 195 and frequently ski with a 35-40 lb overnight pack.
I have had no tour or ski mode prereleases in the older front brake version.
Both versions ski amazingly well. I never ski my dynafits anymore.
The ATK specific ski crampons (i run both the 97 and 108) are slick and fit well and are light and just work. Get the ATK ones, they rock.
I like the heel lifters. Very easy to deploy, but I am also someone who can still rock an old dynafit speed turn into all positions in a manner of seconds with my eyes closed :-)
I like the simplicity of the Helio 350, but it isn't for everyone. I think it is great for my wife's use, but I prefer the original FR 14 2.0 for bigger folks.
Anyway, I'm a big fan. The new binding is a bit slicker, but has a few drawbacks. I'll hang onto the older versions and ski them until you pry them from my dead rotting hands.
pics of the brake issue. First is the way it should look. Second is after icing up and now no bueno. Need to remove brake and try to finesse any bends in the brake bar I think.
Attachment 368682
Attachment 368683
Pics of ATKs in action:
1. My daughter skiing off Piz Boe (RT lightweights)
2. Her getting rowdy in the Drei Zinnen
3. Me skiing under the wall of Cima Grande (older version)
4. This weekend - about to drop the E Couloir Matterhorn peak (newer version)
Attachment 368678
Attachment 368679
Attachment 368680
Attachment 368685
chill winston, I've also noticed the ATK rear brakes are quirky. I just just installed Crest 8 bindings for my sister, and even after a short test hike, the brake would not lock out of the way. I think some icing prevented the latch from catching the brake.
In addition, latching the brake out of the way seems like pretty bad ergonomics / interface design. It's a pain to kneel down to the binding, keep the "button"/brake latch bar pressed, step on the brake and finally release the button/bar while the brake is retracted. It seems like they could have engineered a better system than holding a button on your binding and having to time the release of the button before you lift your heel.
Same, I have had a fair amount of trouble with the brakes. I still like them often over nothing, but the design is lacking. I recently relubed a pair and they are working better.
If I in 20 years time ski lines like this with my upcoming daughter I'll be perfectly satisfied with my lifeQuote:
Originally Posted by chill winston
I don't think it was designed for boot in brake lock.Quote:
Originally Posted by jindustry
20 days on old Raider 2, 40 on the new R12.
I have no trouble with the rear brakes. However I had some with the font ones not locking or really difficult to lock. I guess everyone experience is different.
I’d say that the rear brake atk system is fine, I prefer a manual system that is working vs the automatic garbage on some other heavier bindings (shift ...)
Yup, similar issue on my Helio 150. I accepted that they weren't going to come off and resigned to the possibility of the cross-threading them. I overtorqued one of the intial screws and broke the head off because there's not much of a change in feel between getting them started and when they are finally secure.Quote:
Originally Posted by CirqueScaler
Pretty much agree with this, they might ice up sometimes but I have never had them deploy accidentally once you get them in the hook. I have been finding I like the B&D leashes more and more though, will probably just use leashes on dedicated touring bindings in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by stuntmanbo
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