Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

Consider tearing the place down and starting fresh. Not kidding. In 2015, in a similar situation, with every intention of doing extensive remodeling, we ended up tearing the place down. It's not very expensive to tear shit down - in our case $21K took care of the entire process. Everything is easier in new construction, all the wiring is new, all the insulation is new, everything is where you want it, and on and on. And it might even be cheaper since they don't have to work around stuff and struggle to get shit to fit, etc.

As far as the quote they gave you, 7% isn't a particular bargain. Architects are generally looking for 8% so it's better than that. But the 8% is often negotiable. And design/build firms with architects generally provide those services cheaper in order to get the construction work. You're kind of in the middle of those two scenarios it seems. It might end up being a good deal when considered together, or not. No way to really tell from here.

Architect and builder fees are highly variable by location, and even from one professional to another. I’m working with 2 architects now in Boulder, CO - one more junior but does good work, fee is 3% of eventual construction (remodel) cost, other is higher-end, 10% of construction cost, which will translate to $55k. Neither do interiors, just construction/permit plans (Mrs ski-wpk is a designer). Builder fees are generally 8-15% of construction cost here, depending on the quality of builder. Our current go-to is 12% fee and is worth every penny.

My architect/engineer fee came in under 1% of construction costs. Overall happy w him and he was very hands on.

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Per Iceman's advice , bang out cost for new construction of what you want PLUS demo and see if that's a better way to go. The process might be easier, faster and less expensive.

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Originally Posted by dtown

Thx for this...


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Take that website with a grain of salt...it’s both naive and yet factually reasonable...not sure who wrote it, but they seem to be a little simplistic in the presentation.

As skiwpk said, fees vary
(altho the 3% one sounds like slavery...)


I would spend time getting to know the designer‘s work and the construction quality and the level of service you get for the proposed cost.

Value is often ignored when looking at a proposal or a bid. People flip down to the last line first; and then flip back up thru the sections looking for big numbers.

For instance, you may have two bids for the same project that are not matching closely. They both cover scope, but what do you get for the indicated differential? It may be more (or less) than you might expect. That’s where your understanding of the various parties’ past work experience and level of service make a difference. Do they nickel/dime every item? Do they manage expectations? Do they have suggested solutions that favor supporting the proposed work? (Ie, in the spirit of helping the owner, not just lining pockets or making their own lives easier) Remodels can be chaotic processes. Some outfits manage them better than others.

Thx, all good info. We’ve visited multiple homes of the builder I referenced and feel pretty comfortable with his quality of work and straightforwardness


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I thought I bought a house but it turned out that I bought a lot. Oh well. It's a nice lot, at least.

Just remember, when you get started, the most expensive words in the English language are "while you're at it".

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Originally Posted by acinpdx

It sounds like you are considering a design/build process.

But, for reference on architect fees, take a read through this site
www.architecturalfees.com
Maybe it will offer some insight

We do a bunch of remodel here and when we look back at project data, we tend to fall in the range of 8-14% of construction cost (tho we don’t tie fees to const cost)

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I was going to say, 22k on a 6-800k remodel sounds pretty cheap, especially with some fun structural work adding a 3rd floor, but I work in the Jackson Hole market which isn't the land of normals. I just finished a 125k bathroom remodel that they paid an architect 10k to design. a. fucking. bathroom.

On reread I guess that 22k just makes up a portion of the fee, but 7% seems like a decent rate still.

My neighbor is listing his house for sale and will be replacing his sewer line that I am tied into. Fuck me looking at $6-8 k bill for me to tie into City sewer. Gotta luv owning an old house !

Your sewage flows into his line and then the city sewer? You can't still do that somehow?

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Originally Posted by fatnslow

My neighbor is listing his house for sale and will be replacing his sewer line that I am tied into. Fuck me looking at $6-8 k bill for me to tie into City sewer. Gotta luv owning an old house !

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you gotta get the whole thing dug up?

https://pipegenie.com/

these are sposed to work well, I know a guy who used to sell them

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

you gotta get the whole thing dug up?

https://pipegenie.com/

these are sposed to work well, I know a guy who used to sell them

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I have talked to a few companies and they all do "trenchless". The fact I need to tie into the city line is the additional cost. Currently my line connects to my neighbor in his yard and his line connects to the city line. Essentially I am piggy backing off his line for the last 10 feet.
My neighbor's will cost about $4k , mine will be more due to the fact they will need to create a "new" line to the city sewer. Happens all the time in Portland in older neighborhoods.

You need to "Hot Tap" the main sewer. Think about what is actually occurring for a moment and I think you we realize that $6-8K is a fair price. Sounds like that main is probably in a right of way and not under a road or sidewalk. I' be impressed if that can be done trenchless. I've never seen it however our sewer lines are minimum 3' below grade out in the tundra.

Make sure that The City or water/san district inspects the open hole. These are big money makers for often questionable contractors. Everywhere is different but as you are aware, you own it, it is your problem, but the city can make you deal with it. You should be able to get your hands on some spec sheets regarding grade, compaction, fittings...all the good stuff.

Ice, you wouldn't believe what happens even in new construction. It really takes a lot of oversight to make sure it gets done right. When it doesn't get done right it is often years before it gets discovered.

Here are two example that happened recently. 1. The T where the service lateral connects to the main was installed backwards. Every 5 years, by law you need to jet the main. That's a lot of pressure, you've seen those trucks with the hose down the man hole. Blew the poor old geezer straight off the shitter. That is some bad timing. 2. Shady contractor couldn't find the sewer tap to make the proper connection. The is a common problem. Many excavators have no brains and think that the way you find something is by digging around with a track hoe....or you just use an inspection camera. They just tapped into the downstream neighbors lateral and in the process broke the line between the T and the tap. Sewer district didn't properly inspect. The line subsequently got full of dirt and failed to work. New homeowner gets shit backing up into his downstairs shower even when he is not using any water. Plumber can't figure it out. Upstream neighbor, blind to the world, is now basically pooping in his neighbors basement. Water and san district ends up splitting the cost of repairs three ways with both homeowners. Contractors walk.

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

2. Shady contractor couldn't find the sewer tap to make the proper connection. The is a common problem. Many excavators have no brains and think that the way you find something is by digging around with a track hoe....or you just use an inspection camera. They just tapped into the downstream neighbors lateral and in the process broke the line between the T and the tap. Sewer district didn't properly inspect. The line subsequently got full of dirt and failed to work. New homeowner gets shit backing up into his downstairs shower even when he is not using any water. Plumber can't figure it out. Upstream neighbor, blind to the world, is now basically pooping in his neighbors basement. Water and san district ends up splitting the cost of repairs three ways with both homeowners. Contractors walk.

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Most maxims aren’t universally true. In this case the old adage, “Fences make for better neighbors” falls down.

Now that I think for a minute, there is an additional piece of info. Upstream neighbor who's house was build first, connected to the wrong downstream tap. That's why he had to share the cost. Contractors were just lazy however. Once the problem was IDd, there were many fixes available.

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Ice, you wouldn't believe what happens even in new construction. It really takes a lot of oversight to make sure it gets done right. When it doesn't get done right it is often years before it gets discovered.

Here are two example that happened recently. 1. The T where the service lateral connects to the main was installed backwards. Every 5 years, by law you need to jet the main. That's a lot of pressure, you've seen those trucks with the hose down the man hole. Blew the poor old geezer straight off the shitter. That is some bad timing. .

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Your jurisdiction requires the use of some sort of one way valve on a sanitary sewer service lateral?

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

You need to "Hot Tap" the main sewer. Think about what is actually occurring for a moment and I think you we realize that $6-8K is a fair price. Sounds like that main is probably in a right of way and not under a road or sidewalk. I' be impressed if that can be done trenchless. I've never seen it however our sewer lines are minimum 3' below grade out in the tundra.

Make sure that The City or water/san district inspects the open hole. These are big money makers for often questionable contractors. Everywhere is different but as you are aware, you own it, it is your problem, but the city can make you deal with it. You should be able to get your hands on some spec sheets regarding grade, compaction, fittings...all the good stuff.

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Portland has their specifications posted online.

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Originally Posted by char_

Your jurisdiction requires the use of some sort of one way valve on a sanitary sewer service lateral?

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No, but when you install the T the right way, high pressure jetting down the main just blows right by. When you do it backwards, Grandpa gets a shit-nado for breakfast.

"backflow preventers" are used on the water line to protect from cross contamination due to siphonage, infiltration from irrigation systems and stuff like that.

So the 'T' is a sweep/street?

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

No, but when you install the T the right way, high pressure jetting down the main just blows right by. When you do it backwards, Grandpa gets a shit-nado for breakfast.

"backflow preventers" are used on the water line to protect from cross contamination due to siphonage, infiltration from irrigation systems and stuff like that.

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I don't understand how you can I install a manufacturered tee anyway but in the correct orientation.

I work for a public works agency and have seen enough sanitary sewer stuff go in the ground thst this isnt making any sense, but maybe you use some special parts in CO.

Maybe a wye installed with the sweep backwards is what you are saying? And the crew ran the jetter nozzle up the lateral?

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Originally Posted by char_

I don't understand how you can I install a manufacturered tee anyway but in the correct orientation.

I work for a public works agency and have seen enough sanitary sewer stuff go in the ground thst this isnt making any sense, but maybe you use some special parts in CO.

Maybe a wye installed with the sweep backwards is what you are saying? And the crew ran the jetter nozzle up the lateral?

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Yeah, I would say you got it right. I just stayed at a Holiday Inn. Words have meanings and I used the wrong one. "Wye" not "T".

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Yeah, I would say you got it right. I just stayed at a Holiday Inn. Words have meanings and I used the wrong one. "Wye" not "T".

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Sorry, Engineer disease. :)

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Yeah, I would say you got it right. I just stayed at a Holiday Inn. Words have meanings and I used the wrong one. "Wye" not "T".

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Well, a Lowes 'Wye' is a lot like a Home Depot 'Street/Sanitary/Sweep Tee'

Looking for advice on flooring: any suggestions on wood floor (finished on site or engineered) that won’t get trashed by kids or a dog? We’re renovating in Boulder (cool 1968 mid-mod that we bought from the founder of Lange a few months ago - lots of cool ski history), and our 80-pound lab, plus three kids under 6, have trashed a 5” white oak floor with water-based poly in our current house. That floor was new 4 years ago. Need something way more durable for the new place.


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^^^ Also would love a non-poly solution (oil or wax) so I can repair myself if needed...


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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Ice, you wouldn't believe what happens even in new construction. It really takes a lot of oversight to make sure it gets done right. When it doesn't get done right it is often years before it gets discovered.

Here are two example that happened recently. 1. The T where the service lateral connects to the main was installed backwards.

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City installed new smart meters. Looking at our water bill the last few months I notice that we're getting mid-summer readings despite turning off our irrigation in the fall and not living in the house. The city comes out and figures out that the transmitters for our meter and our next door neighbor's meter, which are side by side on the sidewalk, are wired to the wrong meters. So we're getting billed for our neighbor's water--neighbor who is watering 2x a night every night despite a super wet year and law that they can only water once day a week. Apparently for the last year they have used 8X the amount of water we have. Hoping the get our account credited.

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Originally Posted by ski-wpk

Looking for advice on flooring: any suggestions on wood floor (finished on site or engineered) that won’t get trashed by kids or a dog? We’re renovating in Boulder (cool 1968 mid-mod that we bought from the founder of Lange a few months ago - lots of cool ski history), and our 80-pound lab, plus three kids under 6, have trashed a 5” white oak floor with water-based poly in our current house. That floor was new 4 years ago. Need something way more durable for the new place.


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What does trashed mean? Trashed the finish or trashed the wood? Poly finishes are prone to scratching. You would do better with an oil/varnish/thinner type finish, you can mix your own using boiled linseed oil, tung oil, or danish oil; a non poly oil based varnish; and mineral spirits 1:1:1 . I'm sure there are commercial products that do the same thing but I can't give you a brand. I used this on our upstairs floors which I installed and finished and it held up well with dogs and kids for 20 years. I may have even used poly as the varnish, can't recall. This will be much less prone to scratching but not easily repaired if damaged by water, piss, vomit etc. Or you can just use oil and floor wax, in which case buy a buffer and plan to rewax several times per year. This is easily repaired but not nearly as protective the first finish. Or you can use what ever finish they used on the oak floors when they built my house in 1933. I don't know what it is but the floors still look great, never refinished. If you do use the first type of finish don't apply too many coats and keep it satin and if you do need to touch up an area it won't be as noticeable.

If by trashed you mean damaged by water or other liquids (see above) and engineered floor will be the most protective but hard to repair.

If by trashed you mean the wood is damaged--wood is wood, no matter the product. White oak is quite hard. You could go to harder woods but there's still the risk of damage. Your best bet is solid wood, since damage can be sanded out and refinished.

If you're building for the ages I would definitely go with solid wood. Can be refinished many times and can last centuries if taken care of. Engineered wood is more of a throw-away product IMO. I've installed thick solid oak T and G flooring toe nailed and engineered. The solid wood isn't that much harder to install, even with a muscle-powered nailer (actually kind of fun to bang the nails in). Certainly harder to sand flush (I should have left that to a pro) and has to be finished.

I'm an amateur. Let the pros weigh in.

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Originally Posted by ski-wpk

Looking for advice on flooring: any suggestions on wood floor (finished on site or engineered) that won’t get trashed by kids or a dog? We’re renovating in Boulder (cool 1968 mid-mod that we bought from the founder of Lange a few months ago - lots of cool ski history), and our 80-pound lab, plus three kids under 6, have trashed a 5” white oak floor with water-based poly in our current house. That floor was new 4 years ago. Need something way more durable for the new place.


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Cali-bamboo has some nice kit. I've got a few thousand square feet and a 160 lb Boerboel hasn't damaged it one bit. Fairly reasonably priced, but watch out that shit is heavy

Personally, I'd install LVP or a real wood floor with a living finish. That is only because I live in the mountains, by house is a cross between a ranch and a petting zoo and I live on a dirt road. Wood floor refinishing just sucks.

Been pushing this alot, just did 1200 sq ft of it in a house, do a couple floors a year with it
https://coretecfloors.com/en-us/products

coretec

luxury vinyl planks by themselves suck bad, but this system is the bomb, done a couple lvp floors over the years in homes and commercial and they all suck I refuse to be involved in another one

Yeah, I guess I only gave half the story. LVP can to total dog shit. It is one of the products that is being pushed at homeowners as "awesome, cheap, and easy to install yourself". Spend the extra to get a quality product, do your floor prep well and only self install if you know what you are doing.

LVT (or LVP) is for properties you won't set foot in. It's cheap & easy to install & takes a beating. That makes it easy to replace when it gets beat to hell, and no regrets about tearing it out. It's meant to be disposable, despite it's lack of sustainable material.

If you want flooring for a space you will live in, use a traditional material. It will age better, dog scratches and all. Down the road a few years, your house/cabin/van by the river won't look like you put in the cheapest thing possible just so you could pressure wash it in the name of durability.

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Originally Posted by ski-wpk

Looking for advice on flooring...

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There's been a lot of threads on this topic, and a lot of opinions expressed that contradict each other. But imo your on the right track with the oil finish but it's definitely going to give you a different look than poly. Some prefer it, some hate it. Some threads on the flooring topic: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...rchid=18974783

I personally am a fan of quality engineered flooring like that from Vermont Plank Flooring. I used their product in a project that finished up in 2016 and am very happy with it. I remember Rootskier giving me shit about it but he was wrong and still is. This isn't Lumber Liquidators shit by a mile. What's most important is the stability of the product and the thickness of the wear layer, start there. More info: https://vermontplankflooring.com/wide-plank/engineered/

If I gave you shit about it it was probably limited to the fact that prefinished engineered wood floors will always look like they are engineered and not real wood, even if they have a solid wood veneer.

All these years later and I still hate microbevels...but clicking on that link, I see they offer a site-finished option. So not solid wood but all the trouble of finishing on site...OK then. I got nothing. I am sure it looks great.

Take a look at osmo. It’s an oil/wax blend that you can “spot repair” rather than having to totally strip and refinish.

https://www.midwest-flooring.com/collections/osmo

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Originally Posted by ski-wpk

^^^ Also would love a non-poly solution (oil or wax) so I can repair myself if needed...


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Originally Posted by RootSkier

If I gave you shit about it it was probably limited to the fact that prefinished engineered wood floors will always look like they are engineered and not real wood, even if they have a solid wood veneer...

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We completely agree on that.

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Originally Posted by fastfred

luxury vinyl planks by themselves suck bad, but this system is the bomb, done a couple lvp floors over the years in homes and commercial and they all suck I refuse to be involved in another one

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Agreed. They have a time and a place (ie rentals). My home will not be one of them.

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Yeah, I guess I only gave half the story. LVP can to total dog shit. It is one of the products that is being pushed at homeowners as "awesome, cheap, and easy to install yourself". Spend the extra to get a quality product, do your floor prep well and only self install if you know what you are doing.

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The odd thing is that they can be just as expensive (sometimes more!) than an equivalent alternative. At least the 'good' ones. Flooring stores have been pushing it for some time now, and they continue to do so. I finally made some realizations. (A) It must have a really high profit margin, and (B) these salespeople obviously have not EVER dealt with the installation or warranty repairs themselves. They push the hell out of the product, but they're never the ones doing the dirty work. I used it on a rental condo once. Looked surprisingly good (it was not cheap, like $6+/sq ft) and took one helluva beating, and it is SUPERB for when you have snowy boots coming in and out on a constant basis. However, the stupid interlocking system would constantly pull apart, likely due to constant temperature swings like when the afternoon sun came in beating in every day. I had to entirely redo the floor once. Finally gave up and started using a matching brown caulk in between failed seams, which finally got everything to hold in place well enough.

Anyway, my parents were shopping for hardwood floors a couple months back and the flooring sales lady was pushing the stuff hard on them. I told them to ask her if she had ever installed them herself or done warranty work. Of course the answer was that she had never done anything of the sort. Lol, of course. Thank goodness I talked them out of it. Showed them bad reviews from THAT store, all complaining about the LVP.

One of those things that they'll push hard on you, and they'll CLAIM it has a great warranty, but good freaking luck getting them to own up to it! I had their manager out twice to get a warranty claim done, and although he admitted it was a failure of the system itself, it was still "within specs," so he couldn't do anything about it.

I have a couple of small floors with engineered wood. No microbevels. I think the reason it always looks like engineered is that it isn't sanded and finished as one unit. Of course you could install unfinished flooring or finish over prefinished, but that defeats the purpose of using it.

One advantage of the engineered in remodel situations is that it's thinner, which may let it work better with existing floors in other rooms, cabinets, etc.

Thanks all. We were set on this (https://resawntimberco.com/product/k...ank-white-oak/) from Resawn Timber Co - 7” engineered white oak with a hard wax oil finish - until we ordered a full plank and put my dog on it. Scratched and gouged within hours. Not durable enough. Then 5” white oak finished on site with Rubio Monocoat hardwax oil, but sounds like the oil can react with dog saliva creating black staining - no good for our house of kid chaos and dog that licks the entire kitchen floor clean every night. Will check out the links above. We’ve got 2600 SF to refloor so also needs to be cost-effective.

Pic of the kitchen and living after demo a few weeks ago:Attachment 276063


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You haven’t picked finishes and you’re already into construction?!?

Good luck, man