Police Behaving Badly

why don't the poor black babies grow up with a burning desire to attend Haaaaahvard, like I did?

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/wp-...ton-howell.jpg

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Originally Posted by splat

Wow. Such a dick for not knowing what a fucking dick you really are. Without trying.
Apparently all that the boot polish has had a deleterious effect on your braincells.
I'm sure your kids' 'life choices' will be just fine considering their 'circumstances.'
Fucking closet rascist.

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Yay! The 65 year old revolutionary from Lilly-white mountain town chimes in to call someone a racist! Point out exactly, in detail what I said was racist. Oh, and while you're at it you should probably learn how to spell racist before calling someone one.

Or are you not mature enough to handle a conversation that doesn't place 100% of the blame for someone burning down their own neighborhood on "the system".

You must have been a blast in the 60s man, truly your time to shine I bet.

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

To dumb it down, because most seem to be latching on to something else - does a discussion to children about the riots, and the lengthly historical background that led up to them, include any conversation about the role the young person's behavior plays in how their life turns out, or how it led to that person taking part in the riots? Or does the discussion only state, the system is rigged against you/them, there's nothing you/they can do about it, so sit back and take it?

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Sheesh. Try lecturing Patty Hearst.

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

I'm legitimately interested in seeing how parents explain all this nonsense to their kids. While you were giving them the backstory on how disadvantaged people come to protest did you also explain that it's important to not engage in activity that gets you arrested/personal responsibility/making good life choices that don't lead you to awful situations like this? Honest question, not trying to be a dick.

(And before some mouth foamer jumps all over this I'll preface it again, as with any post I've made, the death of this kid is obviously a crime and needs to be figured out and held accountable for)

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Yeah...I told them that it's ok to be pissed about what happened to Freddie Gray, but it's not ok to burn shit and loot. There are better way of getting your point across without looking like an asshole. Then I told them about non-violent protest and MLK. My older son said MLK was killed. I said yes, but his message is stronger than ever because he was martyred.

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

If the world were entirely as you describe it, there would never be any success stories of people rising above their birth station

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So...if the world is entirely as you describe it does the fact that a small percentage (and for the sake of discussion people in question - poor, inner city black) rise above their "birth station"...mean that everyone in that situation is so equipped, or able or should be expected too?

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Originally Posted by Grape_Ape

but it's not ok to burn shit and loot. There are better way of getting your point across without looking like an asshole. Then I told them about non-violent protest and MLK. .

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You do know that burning shit and stuff and the threat of it happening further was a significant part of the civil rights movement?

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

What you described are circumstances, not life choices. But that's ok because you just wanted to make a political point and not respond honestly to my question about how Grape explained this nonsense to his kids.

If the world were entirely as you describe it, there would never be any success stories of people rising above their birth station in life, or bad hands the system deals em. But that's a completely different discussion than the one I raised and most likely for polyasshat

To dumb it down, because most seem to be latching on to something else - does a discussion to children about the riots, and the lengthly historical background that led up to them, include any conversation about the role the young person's behavior plays in how their life turns out, or how it led to that person taking part in the riots? Or does the discussion only state, the system is rigged against you/them, there's nothing you/they can do about it, so sit back and take it?

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Yes, it has to include the discussion about poor life choices and personal responsibility, etc. But if your goal is to explain why someone would choose to engage in violent protest (rioting, looting, whatever you want to call it) you can't white wash the discussion into one about personal responsibility and poor life choices being the only things that lead to their current condition. Because it isn't that simple (frankly, it would be great if it was that simple). Lots of people have been out in the streets for the last week peacefully protesting, point out the non-violent way to your kids. Hell, take them down and see whats going on. See the thousands of people peacefully protesting. Maybe explain that violence is not okay, no matter who is dishing it out and who is receiving it.

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Originally Posted by Grape_Ape

Yeah...I told them that it's ok to be pissed about what happened to Freddie Gray, but it's not ok to burn shit and loot. There are better way of getting your point across without looking like an asshole. Then I told them about non-violent protest and MLK. My older son said MLK was killed. I said yes, but his message is stronger than ever because he was martyred.

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Cool thanks, that's what I was wondering. Glad you and your family are safe.

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

Yay! The 65 year old revolutionary from Lilly-white mountain town chimes in to call someone a racist! Point out exactly, in detail what I said was racist. Oh, and while you're at it you should probably learn how to spell racist before calling someone one.

Or are you not mature enough to handle a conversation that doesn't place 100% of the blame for someone burning down their own neighborhood on "the system".

You must have been a blast in the 60s man, truly your time to shine I bet.

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Nah, I was a 70s guy and, yes, it was all very shiny and glittery and fun as fuck.
However, if this is your time, you are failing miserably.

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Originally Posted by char

Yes, it has to include the discussion about poor life choices and personal responsibility, etc. But if your goal is to explain why someone would choose to engage in violent protest (rioting, looting, whatever you want to call it) you can't white wash the discussion into one about personal responsibility and poor life choices being the only things that lead to their current condition. Because it isn't that simple (frankly, it would be great if it was that simple). Lots of people have been out in the streets for the last week peacefully protesting, point out the non-violent way to your kids. Hell, take them down and see whats going on. See the thousands of people peacefully protesting. Maybe explain that violence is not okay, no matter who is dishing it out and who is receiving it.

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I agree, and I never alluded that it was solely bad life choices that put those rioters out there - I was wondering if the discussion included all factors; systematic and personal. Looks like it was per GA.

I also agree showing kids the good and peaceful. Some of the best photos I've seen all week are the kids walking up to and talking to cops on the line or neighbors getting out the broom to clean up the mess in the streets - everyone talking to each other.

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

You do know that burning shit and stuff and the threat of it happening further was a significant part of the civil rights movement?

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It's not 1967 anymore.

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

So...if the world is entirely as you describe it does the fact that a small percentage (and for the sake of discussion people in question - poor, inner city black) rise above their "birth station"...mean that everyone in that situation is so equipped, or able or should be

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Nope, everyone isn't equipped and never did I even come close to painting with that broad of a brush.

But if we are to believe in the goal of lifting every American up regardless of their circumstances or station, then you have to inherently believe that everyone possesses the ability inside them to do so, don't you agree?

Look not everyone from the ghetto is going to Harvard, nor should we expect them to, but why does that mean that the alternative is to be permanently stuck in that hellhole? That's where the help comes in.

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

not everyone from the ghetto.... why does that mean that the alternative is to be permanently stuck in that hellhole?

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If we are to believe in

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the goal of lifting every American up

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Hell holes and ghettos should be unacceptable. AS should the expectation that people should either pull themselves out of them or at least not protest too much or at all violently about having to be in one?

After all this is America. The only thing that you're supposed to get violent about is the government coming for your assault rifles. Isn't it?

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

...but why does that mean that the alternative is to be permanently stuck in that hellhole?

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Whoa, whoa, whoa Francis! We are talking about my hometown here!

Just fucking with you. Parts of Baltimore are certainly hellholes...but where the CVS burned was not necessarily so.

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Originally Posted by Grape_Ape

It's not 1967 anymore.

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In some regards it could be considered worse.

Consider demographics and scale of US prison population together with militarized police forces, wealth inequality, underemployment....

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

But if we are to believe in the goal of lifting every American up regardless of their circumstances or station, then you have to inherently believe that everyone possesses the ability inside them to do so, don't you agree?

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Just as you theoretically have the ability to understand the complexities, feedback cycles and dysfunction that define urban poverty in a police state.

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Originally Posted by Bromontana

Just as you theoretically have the ability to understand the complexities, feedback cycles and dysfunction that define urban poverty in a police state.

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The glass can be both half full and half empty.

Police state? Either I'm missing the intentional exaggeration for effect or you're not up to date on what a police state actually is. USSR, East Germany, North Korea...

Yes the ghetto is an unbelievably awful place to live that I am thankful I'll hopefully never a e to experience, but they aren't under the thumb of some secret police.


And Grape, I wasn't calling all of Baltimore a ghetto, just the hypothetical ones that the rioters may hail from. Glad you were just fucking around.

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

]they aren't under under the thumb of some secret police.

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That's ok then.

Sorry Bmills, you're right. It's effectively a police state for many, but not you. So it's not a universal problem, just in poor areas or areas where LE decides to go robocop like Albuquerque.

Now back to "up by the bootstraps" narrative......

Q: This isn't about cops (authority) unjustly using force and when they do, not being held accountable ? (I hope I used that question mark appropriately).

http://images.dailykos.com/images/14...jpg?1430258457

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

That's ok then.

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Just because America isn't a police date doesn't mean that everything is hunky dory, but than again you really didn't mean that though, you were just being flip.

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Originally Posted by Bromontana

Sorry Bmills, you're right. It's effectively a police state for many, but not you. So it's not a universal problem, just in poor areas or areas where LE decides to go robocop like Albuquerque.

Now back to "up by the bootstraps" narrative......

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Easy Bro. No where in my post did I say it was universal or even a reality in the worst parts of America. I was just calling out your extreme example of the ghetto as a police state as a tad over the top. No clue what Albequerque means but I'm sure I'll find out shortly.

And if people didn't pull themselves out of the ghetto, then why do we have so many easily found examples of it happening? It's not impossible is all I'm saying. A fuck ton harder for sure and really shitty or dangerous, but not impossible and as I said above - that's where the help is needed.

the police state doesnt just involve cops, its all the backroom administrative and municipal fine generation and probation systems

once the county court gets their dirty claws on you they will make you bendover backwards for months or years while they fuck you up the ass

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

And if people didn't pull themselves out of the ghetto, then why do we have so many easily found examples of it happening? It's not impossible is all I'm saying. A fuck ton harder for sure and really shitty or dangerous, but not impossible and as I said above - that's where the help is needed.

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Why keep the ghetto in the first place?

I know we'd lose the whole hunger games aspect of college and major league sports, but....

The ghettos... they're the places where we should have the best funded and staffed schools and the best trained and least roid ragey & un-trigger happy police, well funded public defenders offices, tax breaks for businesses who hire there .... etc. Trickle up economics.

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

And if people didn't pull themselves out of the ghetto, then why do we have so many easily found examples of it happening? It's not impossible is all I'm saying. A fuck ton harder for sure and really shitty or dangerous, but not impossible and as I said above - that's where the help is needed.

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It's not impossible to move from the Middle class to become a Billionaire either (see Gates, Jobs, et al.) but it's still far from common. It's been rather proven by Sociologists and economists that whatever class you grew up in you'll end up in. Sure there are outliers but Poverty is about as close to a self-fulfilling prophecy as we have in this country. Sure there are avenues for those living in poverty to escape it, but that takes more than just hard work. The cuts in public education and the social safety net are not helping, would you agree?

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Originally Posted by ArmadaBC

hahahahah

That is an excellent movie.....could you imagine trying to get that made today....never going to happen

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Because Richard Pryor is dead.