Snow for the Euros.

well at least some models make it unbearably cold after the weekend. can you say minus 25 ......... :eek:
of course still no snow. we'll see. i hope my girfriend fixes the weather and it dumps at the end of january. :D


and i mentioned greece because the cold air over the mediteranean would have caused a massive dump there.(according to the model run )

engelberg has gotten 10cm so far(at 2100m)... :(
western valais about 20cm. (i don't knwo exactly where the "donin du jour" is)

edit: but the main precip should arrive this evening. id say there are at least another 30 cm in it so enjoy this dump for there won't be more during the next few days.

The telemetry data from the Galzig (St Anton) weather station shows about 20cm of fresh so far.

still sunny in innsbruck, but first attempt at cloud cover in ages. seems to be drifting east so hopefully some of that^ will eventually get here.

the guys in eastern( ;) ) austria predict up to 50cm+... hmmm im tempted. let's what the main precip does tomorrow.

e-mail this morning from friend in St. Anton said that it is puking.....:biggrin: :biggrin:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by subtle plague

and i mentioned greece because the cold air over the mediteranean would have caused a massive dump there.(according to the model run )

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If it ends up that way I should seriously rethink having my parents come from Athens to visit me and instead I should head down there to visit them.

Hello there pow... just got back from La Flegere, around a foot deep of HQ light fresh pow. Low viz, still snowing, snow in the forecast again tomorrow. Great day of tree skiing and can't wait for more tomorrow! Suddenly we have good conditions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ripzalot

...there are much better places to live for snow. why deal with this kind of frustration season after season? fuck, out west they get as much snow in a multi-day dump as we do in an entire season. ...

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If you want to ski, go to North America. The skiing is hands down, 10 times better in every way, mostly due to the fact it snows between 3-5 times more than here.

If you want jaw dropping vistas, super-steep ridiculous spires of granite, incredible glaciar scenery, and the best place to do alpine climbing and ski mountaineering in the world, come to the Alps. I've spent a lot of time out West in the US and Canada and really there's no comparison. That's why I'm here and not there. (Not to mention the culture is slightly different, making day-to-day living more interesting)

innsbruck.. no sight of any new snow yet :( tomorrow will bring some but probably not too much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bbirtle

The skiing is hands down, 10 times better in every way,

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Vertical drop anyone?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bbirtle

it snows between 3-5 times more than here.

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That, I simply don't believe. Show me the stats. I would be surprised if even the Wasatch gets anything close to 3x as much as the most snowy resort in the Alps (which one is it, btw?).

Also, Brian, it's that kind of preposterous talk that leads to all those anti-American feelings in Europe. ("It's 10x better there in every way.") You sound like someone who needs to feel a bit of good ol' Eastern Alps powder love.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bbirtle

...mostly due to the fact it snows between 3-5 times more than here.

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That's a fallacy. Perhaps in the coast ranges of BC, CA, OR and WA it snows more but in terms of interior snowpack I believe the snowfalls in Europe are comparable if not higher. Especially in the east.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Franz Klammer

10cm on the ground in Zürich and snowing lightly.

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where the hell is your window in zurich? when I look out of mine, I remember 1 maybe 2 cm of snow this morning that has all melted away by now.. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ripzalot

SP, i'm starting to think your way (except for greece). there are much better places to live for snow. why deal with this kind of frustration season after season? fuck, out west they get as much snow in a multi-day dump as we do in an entire season. it just aint right. :mad:

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I would have liked to hear your thoughts if you had spent some time in the PNW last season ...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greg

where the hell is your window in zurich? when I look out of mine, I remember 1 maybe 2 cm of snow this morning that has all melted away by now.. ;)

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8am this morning. Institut für empirische Wirtschaftsforschung (near Seilbahn Rigiblick so that's further uphill - it's the anti-lake effect).

So for Saturday/Sunday:

- St. Anton

OR

- Krippenstein?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bbirtle

If you want jaw dropping vistas, super-steep ridiculous spires of granite, incredible glaciar scenery, and the best place to do alpine climbing and ski mountaineering in the world, come to the Alps. I've spent a lot of time out West in the US and Canada and really there's no comparison. That's why I'm here and not there. (Not to mention the culture is slightly different, making day-to-day living more interesting)

---

and also, if you want some vert that even mcconkey can't straightline from the very top to runout, if you want some vert where turning is not for faggots or esthetic reasons but simply a necessity of skiing as a sport, then come to yurp. ;)

rather worrying freezing point levels in the next few days.
Looks like a big thaw then freeze coming through the western alps.

http://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts....0to3bot.shtml

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Franz Klammer

So for Saturday/Sunday:

- St. Anton

OR

- Krippenstein?

---

First day in St. Anton for me. Stoke level rising.....

@franz
the models say anton.

but id wait until tomorrow evenig for a decision. im still not sure whether to go or to stay at home myself.

Raining now in Zürich (started at around 6pm).

It ain't raining here in Chamonix:

Attachment 9598

Attachment 9599

(Just snapped five minutes ago)

Some of the biggest flakes I've seen falling in a long time. It's ON!

Yehawwww!

Nice pics BBirtle.
Thanks for the stoke.

as is said the main dumpage arrives now.
later tonight/tomorrow in austria.
sat/sun should see some snow in the east and for the rest it's dry time again(but afterwards it's dry in the east as well). the next high will stay for quite a while, again. :(

if they make it 50cm at the kripp, im there(for i need some skiing before the next dry spell). id like to hit anton too, but the base needs some improvement......
maybe my pessimism anti jinxes it, but i won't bet on it ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by powslut

...perhaps in the coast ranges of BC, CA, OR and WA it snows more but in terms of interior snowpack I believe the snowfalls in Europe are comparable if not higher. Especially in the east.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Franz Klammer

Show me the stats.

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Just have a look around the board at the amount of powder skiing these US and Canadian maggots are getting. How often do you ski days like that? They get it ALL THE TIME.

But as far as numbers, here's what I found with a little Googling:

Jackson Hole: 10m
Tahoe: 11m
Colorado: 8m
Fernie (BC Canada): 10m
Whistler: 11m
Washington State, USA: 13m
Montana: 9m
Utah: 12m

It was a lot harder to find snowfall totals for Europe:

Schladming: 5m
Meribel: 5m
Zermatt: 5.9m

You need snow to ski. Period. I had more powder days two years living in Sacramento and commuting 2 hours to Tahoe on every weekend then I got in my two ski seasons so far in Europe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Franz

Vertical drop anyone?

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Overrated. Give me a 500-1000m lift/gondola that serves a lot of terrain and who cares about the base-summit stats? Besides Whistler has 1600m vertical, other US/Canuck resorts usually have between 700-1300m.

I do enjoy runs like the Vallee Blanche but it doesn't really translate to better SKIING per se... it's just longer and look at the amount of lifts you have to chain together to do it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Franz Klammer

Also, Brian, it's that kind of preposterous talk that leads to all those anti-American feelings in Europe. ("It's 10x better there in every way.") You sound like someone who needs to feel a bit of good ol' Eastern Alps powder love.

---

Maybe, I haven't been there. Maybe I'm being a little hard on the place... I guess I have to say I definitely think the resorts in Chamonix suck ass (going on my second season here). There are blatently obvious improvements they could make here to get rid of the 1 hour+ queues. The pistes are generally pointless cat tracks that become moguls immediately, and the off piste in-bounds stuff IMO is just average compared to places I've been in North America... except there's a lot less lifts over here. Chamonix is a kind of strange place like that though. (Of course, I do LOVE Chamonix skiing in terms of touring and the stuff off the Midi...)

I did think Verbier was quite comparable to a US/Canadian place and I've heard some of the mega-French resorts are huge and very nice. Don't get me wrong - I love it over here, I'm not going back anytime soon. But with 2-3 times the snowfall, generally a lot better laid-out mountains/infrastructure, a longer ski season, I'm here for the jaw-dropping scenery, the cultural aspect, and the climbing. The skiing is great, when it snows, but if I wanted to ski I'd be in Tahoe or Whistler.

Along those lines, I think the ski touring is hands down 10 times better over here in Yurp... but for the scenery and amount and quality of skiable terrain (7-10 day trips if you want them) and potential for as serious ski mountaineering can get outside of Nepal.

Sorry to kill your stoke, but everybody needs to do a ski season somewhere in North America at some point!

But don't worry... it's snowing now, it will snow more this winter, and people on both sides of the Atlantic are gonna get more sick ass pow turns I'm sure. :wink:

http://www.jacksonhole-skiing.com/ski_resorts/jackson_hole_mountain_resort.php
http://www.skiheavenly.com/reservati...ng/france.html
http://www.squaw.com/mediacenter/winter_facts.html
http://inte099018.halls.colostate.ed...ki/solden.html
http://209.11.109.67/ski-europe/skim...asp?item_id=12
http://www.ski-snowboard-courses.com/da/20039
http://www.economytravel.com/ski/solden.html
http://off.ifyouski.com/news/newsart...jectID=6786515
http://www.skimountaineer.com/Cascad...eSnowENSO.html
http://www.skimoguls.com/resorts/res...source_id=1108

Cham snowfall at 2000m
Dec 100cm
Jan 160cm
Feb 185cm
Mar 220cm
Apr 170cm
Total 835cm

Kicking Horse 2,150m 650cm

Depends where you go really. I'm sure Cham is'nt the highest snowfall in the alps by a long shot.



Not too shaby

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bbirtle

Just have a look around the board at the amount of powder skiing these US and Canadian maggots are getting. How often do you ski days like that? They get it ALL THE TIME.

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Look, now you're just being ridiculous. How many more US than Euro maggots post on this board? A lot of the Euro stoke comes from a guy who - in his own words - "lives in the European Gay Capital" and still does not shy away from commuting to his secret stash in the Eastern Alps which gets a full 7m of snowfall every year. Also, let's not forget that crazy Englishman with a weakness for fast cars whose spirit regularly haunts the French Alps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bbirtle

But as far as numbers, here's what I found with a little Googling:

Jackson Hole: 10m
Tahoe: 11m
Colorado: 8m
Fernie (BC Canada): 10m
Whistler: 11m
Washington State, USA: 13m
Montana: 9m
Utah: 12m

---

Well, according to the link (http://inte099018.halls.colostate.edu/~vigh/skiing/) YOU posted I have to call bullshit on some of those. Whistler gets 360 inches, that's 9.1m.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bbirtle

It was a lot harder to find snowfall totals for Europe:

Schladming: 5m
Meribel: 5m
Zermatt: 5.9m

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See the post above and Krippenstein and St. Anton with averages of 7m. I know that Sonnblick gets a lot, I wish I could find the link. In any case, that's as I said before nowhere close to your "3-5x as much snow" assertion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bbirtle

You need snow to ski. Period. I had more powder days two years living in Sacramento and commuting 2 hours to Tahoe on every weekend then I got in my two ski seasons so far in Europe.

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That's bad luck and certainly does not back up the outrageously wrong statistical statements you made before (yes, I'm a pedantic asshole).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bbirtle

Overrated. Give me a 500-1000m lift/gondola that serves a lot of terrain and who cares about the base-summit stats? Besides Whistler has 1600m vertical, other US/Canuck resorts usually have between 700-1300m.

I do enjoy runs like the Vallee Blanche but it doesn't really translate to better SKIING per se... it's just longer and look at the amount of lifts you have to chain together to do it.

---

Plenty of Austrian, Swiss and French resorts have gondolas that cover more than 1600m with a single gondola without the need to chain together lifts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bbirtle

Maybe, I haven't been there. Maybe I'm being a little hard on the place... I guess I have to say I definitely think the resorts in Chamonix suck ass (going on my second season here). There are blatently obvious improvements they could make here to get rid of the 1 hour+ queues. The pistes are generally pointless cat tracks that become moguls immediately, and the off piste in-bounds stuff IMO is just average compared to places I've been in North America... except there's a lot less lifts over here. Chamonix is a kind of strange place like that though. (Of course, I do LOVE Chamonix skiing in terms of touring and the stuff off the Midi...)

I did think Verbier was quite comparable to a US/Canadian place and I've heard some of the mega-French resorts are huge and very nice. Don't get me wrong - I love it over here, I'm not going back anytime soon. But with 2-3 times the snowfall, generally a lot better laid-out mountains/infrastructure, a longer ski season, I'm here for the jaw-dropping scenery, the cultural aspect, and the climbing. The skiing is great, when it snows, but if I wanted to ski I'd be in Tahoe or Whistler.

---

Chamonix lives a lot from its name and is not nearly as well developed as almost all of the big Austrian and Swiss resorts. I suggest you give them a try. One nice thing about them is that they don't get out tracked out that quickly (they're huge and most people do not dare to venture off-piste.

Also, there's a reason why on a single day 5 Americans that would clearly not fall into the gaper category, told me that there is no place like La Grave in America - and even after having seen the Wasatch on several powder days, I'll have to agree with them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bbirtle

Sorry to kill your stoke, but everybody needs to do a ski season somewhere in North America at some point!

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Just not the East because - believe me - even great company such as gin, nh_tele, big_kuba, cantdog, etc. and a cheap ASC student season pass can't make it worthwhile ... (but I know what you meant by "somewhere").

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bbirtle

But don't worry... it's snowing now, it will snow more this winter, and people on both sides of the Atlantic are gonna get more sick ass pow turns I'm sure. :wink:

---

Let's hope so. I need some more powder before returning to Beantown.

Alright, enough ranting - frustrating day at work, and bbirtle was my victim. My apologies.

EDIT: Nice stoke, bbirtle, and sorry again about the rant!

birtle, you weren't very lucky with last years snowfall and you aren't very lucky with this year so far. chamonix is about skiing steep couloirs. and last year as this year it has unusually few snow up high. which is absolutely necessary to ski those steeps. when I was in cham last april even the demi lune at grand montets was still nothing but black ice.

if you want to do simple off pist freeriding chamonix is not a good place. It is simply tracked out to fast. and I don't know what you are looking for, but vallee blanche is definitely not what cham is about. I havn't even skied it once.

what makes up a good resort, is very few lifts that lead up on top of a steep mountain with as few groomers as possible that are needed to run the resort. chamonix comes pretty close to that. but there are too many people who are aware of that. so go for the steeps. but you'll find better freeriding elsewhere.

edit: I can't possibly think of any resort in the world where lift acces brings you as close to incredible faces as in chamonix. there isn't one that comes even close to that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Franz

Alright, enough ranting - frustrating day at work,...

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No shit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Franz Klammer

Well, according to the link YOU posted I have to call bullshit on some of those. Whistler gets 360 inches, that's 9.1m.

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So what you think I'm trying to bullshit you now?

It was tough to get a lot of accuracy on the figures. One website said a resort in Austria got 250cm which I didn't believe. I took the Whistler figure from another page that listed in meters. They all seemed pretty ballpark.

9.1m is a hell of a lot more than some of those 5m averages that seem pretty right to me for the French Alps. Glad to hear you're getting more over there appearently.

I've skiied a lot in both places and it just seems like there's a clear winner on snow, length of season, general accessibility and skiability of the terrain, infrastructure, and so forth. But hey maybe as somebody else suggested it's been dry years while I was here and wet years while I was there, or something. And I haven't been everywhere.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Franz Klammer

... nowhere close to your "3-5x as much snow" assertion...

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Well it's pretty close to 3x for some of the resorts... (5m compared to 13m)

I'd be curious to see more official figures - not to argue but just curious.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Franz

... and certainly does not back up the outrageously wrong statistical statements you made before (yes, I'm a pedantic asshole).

---

I apologize wholeheartedly for offending you by my "3-5 times" comment. I'll revise to "1.5-3 times" which seems more statistically accurate. Happy?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Franz

Plenty of Austrian, Swiss and French resorts have gondolas that cover more than 1600m with a single gondola without the need to chain together lifts.

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The best I saw was Hohtalli at Zermatt, which is around 1100m. Fucking excellent cablecar - can do laps over and over without any hiking at all. Where are the other big ones?

The Aiguille du Midi comes to mind, but you can't exactly do laps on it and it involves a 30 min train ride after usually a 1 hour queue...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Franz

... Chamonix lives a lot from its name and is not nearly as well developed as almost all of the big Austrian and Swiss resorts. I suggest you give them a try....

---

Fair point although remember I lived in Zermatt for a whole year as well as skiied in Verbier, Saas Fee, Courmeyer, and Cervnia but yes I haven't been to Austria or any of the other French resorts. So far Verbier is the only single one that has seemed to me in the "amazing" category...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Franz

... Also, there's a reason why on a single day 5 Americans that would clearly not fall into the gaper category, told me that there is no place like La Grave in America...

---

True. La Grave is meant to be a very cool spot.

I guess what I mean to say is that if you're looking to hit a resort hard and get as much steep pow turns as possible, go to the USA/Canada. Personally I like the whole set up far better in Europe and that's why I'm here - the scale is just massive, even if I still think a good quick barrage of 500-750m express quads beats a single 1100m cablecar or the like any pow day. At the high end, the lines are definitely bigger, longer, and usually scarier. The ski mountaineering is tops. The ability to dive into such an incredible Himalayan-like mountain scenery is a big part of the appeal. Let's not get started on general quality of life, food, etc...

I guess I shouldn't have said "better in every way" because skiing is pretty important to me so if it was really horrible I wouldn't be here....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greg

birtle, you weren't very lucky with last years snowfall and you aren't very lucky with this year so far.

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God I sure hope so...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greg

if you want to do simple off pist freeriding chamonix is not a good place.

---

Kind of kind of not - I think it's one of the better places for ski touring. It seems like I can always get some pow but it definitely requires skins.

For in-bounds pow slurping Chamonix is very low on the list and why intermediates comes here in such numbers just astounds me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greg

I don't know what you are looking for, but vallee blanche is definitely not what cham is about. I havn't even skied it once.

---

The Vallee Blanche EXACTLY what Chamonix is about to me. Not the pussy roundabout tourist route that grandma could do - it's an incredible world back there like very little found elsewhere. You really aren't skiing in the spirit of Chamonix unless you have a harness on and scary spiky things dangling of it and your rucksack. Les Poubelles ends up at the Mer de Glace. Cosmiques starts at the Midi. The Col du Plan is a great non-extreme but fun blast. Hucking off seracs makes for incredible photos anyway. It just goes on and on back there... it's pretty safe to say I would not have come back here for season #2 if it weren't for the Midi lift.

I guess what I really love about Chamonix is how close the mountaineering and the skiing blend together... two passions rolled in one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bbirtle

You really aren't skiing in the spirit of Chamonix unless you have a harness on and scary spiky things hanging off your ballsack.

---

Note to self: Do this

30cm fresh in town this morning, and have been blasting since 7:30 am...wind is howling though.

bbirtle vs franz - thanks for the discussion. this is something that weighs on my mind lately. bbirtle, your summary on chamonix is exactly why i only ski there a handful of days per year, even tho i live easily within daily driving range. other than the views, the crowds and lacking infrasctucture has always distracted from whatever skiing is available. having said that, cham should be experienced by all skiers at some point in their lives.

for the stats presented, are we comparing apples and oranges? base levels vs actual fallen snow? base levels rarely get much above the 3m mark in yurp anymore. at the moment, G3000 is showing only 145cm base, i seriously doubt we get any help towards the 5 or 6m mark this season. this'll give you last season's levels for just about anywhere:
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/rep...cal/report.asp

before the dry spell several areas in the east had hit the 3m barrier.(At the begin of jan ! :D) ..guess which one too ? ;)
and some of them still have well more than 2,5m.

concerning the snowfall right now: arlberg got the most(30-50cm) as i guessed. and it will snow the day on. the east got 20cm but expectations range from 50-70cm coming which should be more than in the west. (im guessing another 20-30cm here) IF it comes in the east.... if. #
switz got the most in the lower valais (20cm plus 30cm today) and according to the weather geeks in the "goms" area. 50cm over night.
im still not sure if i should go..... gnargh.
and no one wants to join me :( (so the gas costs would kill me....)

OK, I'm set for St. Anton on Saturday and will either do some touring in Styria and or rip the Kripp.

Powslut, I will get in touch with you via phone.

Subtle, if you make the trip, let me know.

Fuck fucking Gressoney :(

edg

What's Gressoney done to deserve being fucked so mercilessly?

30-50cm of snow overnight - most lifts closed due to avie danger - took over an hour to shovel the drive this morning!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bad_roo

What's Gressoney done to deserve being fucked so mercilessly?

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i guess what he meant to say was: damn why do i always go to places where it doesn't snow ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Idris

30-50cm of snow overnight - most lifts closed due to avie danger - took over an hour to shovel the drive this morning!

---

Mrs Roo is going to be very happy at that news.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by edg

Fuck fucking Gressoney :(

edg

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don't tell me you're in (or moving to) gressoney :eek:
I TOLD YOU MANY TIMES by now it's the driest area on the whole alps :cussing: