If only there was something we could do...

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

05-08-2023, 07:54 AM
oldnew_guy

Sort of confused why it would need to be a trained police officer who would be running background checks and competency tests in OR. I seem to recall that the law just vested the implementation of the process at the lowest level of government and allowed them to charge for it. I think this was just the fastest way to get it implemented and at least in OR, I'm sure the legislature knew that implementing it at the state level would be a nightmare. Did it specifically state that it needed to be an LEO?

It is basically an administrative position, not a trained street LEO's job.

I am opposed to the police running it, particularly the Portland Police, because they have a long and storied history of bias and constitutional rights violations.
05-08-2023, 08:10 AM
MagnificentUnicorn

^There’s a lot of people that work for the PD/Sheriff that aren’t LEOs. Maybe there is some confusion about what requirements are for the persons doing the background checks

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
05-08-2023, 08:34 AM
anotherVTskibum

Interesting op-eds from Tenn.:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/08/o...smid=url-share
https://www.forbes.com/sites/billfri...h=608f6fe81567

One stat that stands out from the Forbes piece: an estimate of 5% of Americans owning AR-15s. I'd have guessed much higher, but I also try to avoid living in places that have enough people to require traffic lights.

One other thing that stands out from the Forbes piece: more research seems helpful. Part of the issue is clearly the wider availability of more-powerful firearms, but taking the Vermont driveway-maintenance shooting as an example, is that a symptom of modern issues, or could that have just as easily happened 30 years ago? Nothing has changed in the legal regime that would enable it (Vermont has had permit-free concealed carry for a long time), and the firearm used didn't even have a removable magazine.
05-08-2023, 08:44 AM
MagnificentUnicorn

5% of Americans own AR style rifles but they have quivers of them. They’re all built for different LARPing purposes. Look at Bobby and Scotty, they both own multiple ARs would be my guess

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
05-08-2023, 08:48 AM
riser4

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

5% of Americans own AR style rifles but they have quivers of them. They’re all built for different LARPing purposes. Look at Bobby and Scotty, they both own multiple ARs would be my guess

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Scotty seemed partial to everything butt AR before his sabbatical. Since then I only see it if someone quotes him. The RPD is a prime example.
05-08-2023, 08:53 AM
MagnificentUnicorn

Quote:

Originally Posted by riser4

Scotty seemed partial to everything butt AR before his sabbatical. Since then I only see it if someone quotes him. The RPD is a prime example.

I’m not a gun nerd so I’m going to lump AK/SKS/etc in with AR style.

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
05-08-2023, 11:28 AM
riser4

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

I’m not a gun nerd so I’m going to lump AK/SKS/etc in with AR style.

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

That's a bit annoying. The only things thos all have in common are that they are semi-automatic derivatives and or conversions of military, rifles, have hi capacity magazines, and shoot bullets. Very different weapons.

He also showed us more than those. FN FAL. Maybe some HK. And I think Galil, which would be easy to dismiss as an AK, but is so much more than that.
05-08-2023, 11:31 AM
TBS

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldnew_guy

Sort of confused why it would need to be a trained police officer who would be running background checks and competency tests in OR. I seem to recall that the law just vested the implementation of the process at the lowest level of government and allowed them to charge for it. I think this was just the fastest way to get it implemented and at least in OR, I'm sure the legislature knew that implementing it at the state level would be a nightmare. Did it specifically state that it needed to be an LEO?

It is basically an administrative position, not a trained street LEO's job.

I am opposed to the police running it, particularly the Portland Police, because they have a long and storied history of bias and constitutional rights violations.

I didn’t see anything saying it had to be a sworn officer doing the checks and certs. It’s the police and 2A crowd (and some posters here) arguing that implementation will take officers off the street.

Agreed that PPD is about the last organization I would want to see running the program in Multnomah county. And I also get where you’re coming from regarding some small-county sheriffs (Linn, Jefferson, Union and Wallowa all say they won’t enforce the law, but the Governor may have something to say about that).

Talked with a couple of local (Deschutes county) deputies about this when it first passed. Both are reasonable people, and nothing like the PPD officers I dealt with for much of my life.

They agree that better background checks and competence certs are needed but they don’t want the responsibility - especially when they need to tell someone they are too crazy to own a firearm. But they didn’t have an alternative, other than to create a new agency.
05-08-2023, 12:10 PM
MagnificentUnicorn

Quote:

Originally Posted by riser4

That's a bit annoying. The only things thos all have in common are that they are semi-automatic derivatives and or conversions of military, rifles, have hi capacity magazines, and shoot bullets. Very different weapons.

He also showed us more than those. FN FAL. Maybe some HK. And I think Galil, which would be easy to dismiss as an AK, but is so much more than that.

Now you’re nerding out. I know the differences but they’re all semi automatic weapons built for the same purpose, if you disregard the SKS, they all have pistol grips, detachable high capacity magazines, and flash suppressors. Most Americans that aren’t gun nerds consider them assault rifles like it or not.

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
05-08-2023, 12:19 PM
zion zig zag

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBS

Pussy excuses.

So, how would you go about expanding background checks and ensure gun purchasers have the skills to handle firearms?

Or do you not give a shit? Because you’ve never struck me as that kind of person…

It's not that I don't give a shit, it's that I don't have the answers. I simply wanted to point out that it's rarely as easy as "just hire more people....."

Maybe a federal agency that isn't subject to the whims and interpretations of 15,000 different county and local agencies?
05-08-2023, 12:57 PM
J. Barron DeJong

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

5% of Americans own AR style rifles but they have quivers of them. They’re all built for different LARPing purposes. Look at Bobby and Scotty, they both own multiple ARs would be my guess

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Some additional perspective: ‘only’ 30% of American adults own a gun. Another 11% live with someone who owns a gun.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-t...gun-ownership/
05-08-2023, 01:04 PM
byates1

There is no answer. There is nothing to be done. The amount of ppl I run into in complete despair is growing on the daily. I'm amazed more ppl aren't going ballistic.

The solution for you is to distance yourself from any of it as best you can.

Hope that cheers you up.
05-08-2023, 01:06 PM
californiagrown

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong

Some additional perspective: ‘only’ 30% of American adults own a gun. Another 11% live with someone who owns a gun.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-t...gun-ownership/

So 41% of americans own guns. what are the odds its the best 41% amongst us?

Attachment 458403
05-08-2023, 01:13 PM
byates1

^ Carlin is the best.

"The planet is fine, the people are fucked'
05-08-2023, 01:19 PM
::: :::

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBS

And I also get where you’re coming from regarding some small-county sheriffs (Linn, Jefferson, Union and Wallowa all say they won’t enforce the law, but the Governor may have something to say about that).

when can we get a court case that specifically obliterates the legal fiction of a "constitutional sheriff"?
is it even necessary per current law?
05-08-2023, 01:21 PM
garyfromterrace

Quote:

Originally Posted by californiagrown

So 41% of americans own guns. what are the odds its the best 41% amongst us?

Attachment 458403

Fuck. We are all fucked.
There's nothing we can do.
05-08-2023, 01:22 PM
::: :::

Quote:

Originally Posted by byates1

There is no answer. There is nothing to be done. The amount of ppl I run into in complete despair is growing on the daily. I'm amazed more ppl aren't going ballistic.

The solution for you is to distance yourself from any of it as best you can.

Hope that cheers you up.

no

we do the hard work to create the society we want

complacency is why we're here
05-08-2023, 01:30 PM
byates1

Yeah Portland looks great these days. All your hard work seems to be paying off.

Username checks out,;)
05-08-2023, 01:37 PM
ex-powderbroker

Quote:

Originally Posted by ::: :::

when can we get a court case that specifically obliterates the legal fiction of a "constitutional sheriff"?
is it even necessary per current law?

i was listening to some hard core evangelical secessionist radio and they were talking ‘constitutional sheriff’. wtf is that?
05-08-2023, 01:41 PM
::: :::

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex-powderbroker

i was listening to some hard core evangelical secessionist radio and they were talking ‘constitutional sheriff’. wtf is that?

it says that the sheriff is only beholden to the constitution and can do whatever the fuck he wants per his interpretation thereof

this is where we get the various remote sheriffs saying I won't enforce this or that law
(that also can happen aside from the constitutional sheriff movement, but within it, it is often a pretend notion that state and federal laws don't apply to these remote localities)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consti...External_links
https://www.npr.org/2022/10/22/11307...eriff-movement
05-08-2023, 01:49 PM
skaredshtles

Quote:

Originally Posted by ::: :::

it says that the sheriff is only beholden to the constitution and can do whatever the fuck he wants per his interpretation thereof

this is where we get the various remote sheriffs saying I won't enforce this or that law
(that also can happen aside from the constitutional sheriff movement, but within it, it is often a pretend notion that state and federal laws don't apply to these remote localities)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consti...External_links
https://www.npr.org/2022/10/22/11307...eriff-movement

And invariably, these people are not very smart. Dum Dums, in fact, in almost every case. :rolleyes:
05-08-2023, 02:09 PM
TBS

Quote:

Originally Posted by ::: :::

when can we get a court case that specifically obliterates the legal fiction of a "constitutional sheriff"?
is it even necessary per current law?

Pulling from extremist playbook, Oregon sheriffs refuse to enforce gun laws
https://www.opb.org/article/2022/11/...city-magazine/

I loved this part

Quote:

(Linn county Sheriff) Duncan’s claim that her deputies won’t enforce the law in such a situation rings hollow with some experts.

“If you pull over a car and the person has a record, you’re telling me that her office is not going to arrest that person? Particularly if that person is a person of color or poor or has a pretty long record,” said Jessica Pishko, a New America fellow writing a book about sheriffs. “That’s one where I’m like, ‘you can’t be serious.’”

And

Quote:

In 2018, eight counties passed so-called Second Amendment Preservation Ordinances, giving county sheriffs authority to determine if state and federal gun laws are constitutional and barring county resources from being used to enforce them. Columbia County passed an ordinance claiming to nullify state and federal gun laws.

Those ordinances have not fared well in court.

These sheriffs remind me of Shakespeare “Tales told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing”
05-08-2023, 02:19 PM
SumJongGuy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunion 2020

Raise the taxes on ammo and weapon sales, clearly these are already plenty cheap. Time to start taxing them at a higher rate to cover the cost of their impact on society.

NOPE NOPE NOPE!!! IT SHOULD ALL BE FREE!!!! EVERYTHING FOR EVERYONE FREE!!!!!!.... SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!!!!
05-08-2023, 02:28 PM
leroy jenkins

Quote:

Originally Posted by ::: :::

it seems you aren't aware that a bullet to the head isn't necessarily an immediate death

Ya but its typically a pretty good indication someone won't keep attempting suicide. Besides, to the back of the head, and he had announced publicly he was not a suicide risk. But ok, you do you. CIA history on mk ultra various documented false flag attacks and a bunch of other shit is totally real but I'm sure they've stopped all that.
05-08-2023, 02:30 PM
leroy jenkins

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peruvian

What were you saying about insults just a few pages back?

That wasn't insulting anyone. i didn't say those things ABOUT anyone. i'm saying no matter how anti gun or pro authority you are, looking at other variables that can improve this situation serves EVERYONE. its the same thing I say to very conservative people in gun forums, no matter how pro freedom you are, talking about how to improve the other variables that are causing this serves EVERYONE. But both sides think they need to just be as extremely polarized as possible, afraid even considering nuance will lead to them losing the culture war or something.

The statements I did make directed towards people in this thread are objectively true. None of you want to talk about any other variables besides guns. You don't want to solve or improve problems you want a simplistic place to just blame guns and gun owners irrespective of the complexity of the actual causal variables driving this in our society. Thats not an insult its objectively true. Its also not a monolith. None of you are proving me wrong. its an accurate observation.

Someone says 'the same people that...' but they themselves, nor any of the rest of you, have any interest in discussing anything but your dislike of gun owners. You don't want solutions you want to create as simplified of a narrative as possible to cope with the complexity of reality by just blaming those who aren't like you. This is evidenced by behavior. its not an assumption its an accurate observation.

I would love to be proven wrong and come back to this thread and see a discussion in terms of as many solutions as possible, and not just blame for guns.

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page