Wagon Stoke

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Originally Posted by skuff

Reliability, cargo room and comfort are on the list of items I'm trying to find in a used car. 90% of my driving is on paved, plowed, city/highway roads with 10% on logging roads and the Peshekee Grade (worst paved road in US?).

Any advice?

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You want a Volvo XC70 T6 off lease (or used) if these are your priorities. Bigger than any of the other wagons by a long shot (took my wife's '15 car camping last fall and I can fully lay out with the seats down comfortably; I'm 6') The T6 gets you 300hp which is more than quick enough, especially if you don't need 'sporty'. Lots of turbo punch for on ramps/passing and easily cruises at 80+ with more left in the tank. Base model 3.2 has around 240hp if I recall correctly. It also has 8.5" of ground clearance which is good for most anything you describe. It also has the most comfortable seats ever installed in a car so theres that.

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Originally Posted by skuff

I'm looking to buy a used wagon (returned 2013 lease, or random 2009-2016) and was leaning toward Audi until I read Stonepa's comments on the last page. But... I'm currently using a VW mechanic that I trust who also works on Audis and could be the wrench man, he said he would also work on BMW.

What's more reliable, Audi, BMW, Mercedes Benz or Volvo? I don't really need sporty, as I'm currently driving an '04 Passat wagon with a 4 cylinder turbo that has 170HP, although most of the cars I'm seeing do have more HP. Current list of choices are BMW xdrive, Audi allroad, Mercedes Benz e350 and Volvo xc.

Reliability, cargo room and comfort are on the list of items I'm trying to find in a used car. 90% of my driving is on paved, plowed, city/highway roads with 10% on logging roads and the Peshekee Grade (worst paved road in US?).

Any advice?

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I'm in a similar situation, and I've been leaning Volvo XC70 or V60 Cross Country for a few reasons. The XC70 has a ton of space thanks to its boxy rear end, and you will probably be able to start picking them up cheap since Volvo discontinued them after 2016 (which could potentially be a drawback, service and parts-wise.) The V60 Cross Country is decidedly sportier, and consequently smaller. It's also getting a redesign for the 2018 model year, so the 2017s and older should drop in price dramatically. Edmunds rates their true cost of ownership dramatically lower than an Audi Allroad, mostly because of repair costs. I haven't compared them with the other brands mentioned, though.

The Allroad was super fun to drive (I tested a 2014), but I ended up disqualifying it along with the Volkswagen, BMW, and Mercedes because of their low ground clearances. It's rare that it's ever really been a problem for me, but bashing your undercarriage on a rocky fire/logging road or getting high centered in a foot of snow is no fun. The XC70 has a respectable 8.3 inches, just below an Outback's 8.7, and the V60 Cross Country clocks in at 7.9. The others, I believe, are in the low 7s and high 6s. Couple that with the long wheelbase of a wagon, and you're pretty low.

The fallback alternative to all of these, of course, is a decked out Outback.

^^^ thanks ^^^

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Originally Posted by skuff

90% of my driving is on paved, plowed, city/highway roads with 10% on logging roads and the Peshekee Grade (worst paved road in US?).

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That describes my driving experience except I drive on gravel roads and logging roads a ton, and I've never needed clearance in the last 10 years. I say 10 years because that's when I sold our 2004 Allroad with the adjustable height suspension. It was cool, but we really never needed it. (11 years w/ 328 X-drive wagons.)
In the group of wagons you're suggesting, I would not consider clearance to be an issue, I would pick the best deal you could find. This is because the actual difference in the clearance between all of them is minimal.
There was one time when choosing which car to take to an unplowed trailhead we took my buddy's Jeep, and even then he almost got stuck.

In my area, the used Vovlo xc is most expensive, has best resale value, followed by Audi, with BMW and Mercedes Benz tied at the more affordable end of the used car spectrum.

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Originally Posted by 54-46

Be better off tuning an e61 535ix for mondo HP.

Also, has hydraulic, not electronic, steering.

Ideas here based on sedan: http://blog.modbargains.com/6-best-p...-e60-bmw-535i/

This says you can get up to around 450-470HP: http://oppositelock.kinja.com/10-rea...-m5-1608323644

Base car ~$13K; set aside $5K for repairs; spend $6-8K to tune it: https://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/5995345319.html

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Pretty tough to pay $13K for a salvage title car.

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Originally Posted by fatnslow

Pretty tough to pay $13K for a salvage title car.

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Yeah, maybe not but guys are ogling $60-73K 4-cyl turbos, so in comparison something like that may be OK as a base to work from depending on what one finds. Or, to your point, find a non-salvage version for $20K and go from there. Either way, certainly cheaper than $60K.

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Originally Posted by 54-46

Yeah, maybe not but guys are ogling $60-73K 4-cyl turbos, so in comparison something like that may be OK as a base to work from depending on what one finds. Or, to your point, find a non-salvage version for $20K and go from there. Either way, certainly cheaper than $60K.

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I understand. I just have a personal bias after seeing too many "salvage" title cars being sold by eastern europeans after a 5 mph crash.

Or we could just find that guy who LS swapped his brown manual e39 touring. :D

I think he was open to trades.

I've driven the e91 wagon, with kids, and the e61 wagon, and with 2 kids, the e61 takes it hands down. Love the e61. Learn to wrench or it will be expensive to own.
Oh and get the sport package. Seats are badass good for your ass.

What websites are you folks using to search for used cars? I've been using Autotrader mostly.

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Originally Posted by skuff

In my area, the used Vovlo xc is most expensive, has best resale value, followed by Audi, with BMW and Mercedes Benz tied at the more affordable end of the used car spectrum.

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That sounds about right. I have found prices to be pretty similar between 2014 or 2015 Allroad, XC70, V60 CC, or 6-cylinder Outback with the V60 CC tending to be the most expensive and the Outback the least. Price really drops if you go to the 4-cylinder Outback, even with plenty of options.

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Originally Posted by basinbeater

I've driven the e91 wagon, with kids, and the e61 wagon, and with 2 kids, the e61 takes it hands down. Love the e61. Learn to wrench or it will be expensive to own.
Oh and get the sport package. Seats are badass good for your ass.

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I have an e91 with sport seats and totally agree that the e61 would be preferable to most. Sport seat rule. E91 is a small car unless you only have 1 kid.

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Originally Posted by skuff

What websites are you folks using to search for used cars? I've been using Autotrader mostly.

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Basinbeater, Huckbucket, or someone posted a good search tool in the last few pages of the "Buying a 10 Year Old Car, What Could Go Wrong?" Thread.

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Originally Posted by burrito

That sounds about right. I have found prices to be pretty similar between 2014 or 2015 Allroad, XC70, V60 CC, or 6-cylinder Outback with the V60 CC tending to be the most expensive and the Outback the least. Price really drops if you go to the 4-cylinder Outback, even with plenty of options.

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Pre owned V60s pricing more than pre owned XC70s? What kind of upside down world is this?

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

Pre owned V60s pricing more than pre owned XC70s? What kind of upside down world is this?

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They are when you're looking at the V60 Cross Country, which adds a substantial amount on top of the V60 base price.

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Originally Posted by burrito

They are when you're looking at the V60 Cross Country, which adds a substantial amount on top of the V60 base price.

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Weird. For a much smaller car that doesn't make a whole lot of sense when comparing to the XC70.

Unless we're talking Polestar then by all means, go for it!

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

Weird. For a much smaller car that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Unless we're talking Polestar then by all means, go for it!

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I think they left the XC70 alone for a couple of years before dropping it entirely this year. It may be on an older platform/drivetrain than a same-year V60 CC.

I am a volvo wagon fan boy. Had the V70R up in Tahoe / Mammoth last week for 9 days and drove everywhere and in some deep snow. Amazing car going up unplowed driveways. No 4runner, but for what my car is it never fails to amaze me and passengers in the snow. If I was buying a wagon tomorrow the newest XC70 with the 300hp engine would be it.

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Originally Posted by liv2ski

I am a volvo wagon fan boy. Had the V70R up in Tahoe / Mammoth last week for 9 days and drove everywhere and in some deep snow. Amazing car going up unplowed driveways. No 4runner, but for what my car is it never fails to amaze me and passengers in the snow. If I was buying a wagon tomorrow the newest XC70 with the 300hp engine would be it.

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Play around with the Volvo V90/V90XC configurator, you can make some pretty wagons!

http://www.volvocars.com/us/build#wagon

Seriously though, when it's time to upgrade the family hauler I'm focusing hard on Volvo, they're really on point right now.

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

Basinbeater, Huckbucket, or someone posted a good search tool in the last few pages of the "Buying a 10 Year Old Car, What Could Go Wrong?" Thread.

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Thanks

Wish I had the cash lying around to buy the 4S model.

While the regular Panamera, thanks to its large hatch, already is more practical than most luxury sedans, the Sport Turismo widens the gap. There is simply nothing else like it on the market. Audi’s A7 is significantly smaller inside and based on the A6, a car positioned a class below the Panamera. The same is true of the Mercedes-Benz CLS and its not-for-the-U.S. Shooting Brake version, which will be killed in the next model generation. The Tesla Model S is similarly large, but that electric dragster/limousine plays in a class of its own. Some customers may cross-shop the Mercedes-AMG E63 wagon.

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

Play around with the Volvo V90/V90XC configurator, you can make some pretty wagons!

http://www.volvocars.com/us/build#wagon

Seriously though, when it's time to upgrade the family hauler I'm focusing hard on Volvo, they're really on point right now.

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I'm with you. I started looking a month or so ago thinking I would pick up a used something or other. After seeing what Volvo's got going on, I'm trying to eek out another summer in my current ride to wait for all the new Volvo has coming later this year.

I dont know guys, every Volvo I see, (when I see them, they usually pass without notice) makes me just kind of go blah. Nice enough, sure. Boooring.

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Originally Posted by liv2ski

Wish I had the cash lying around to buy the 4S model.

While the regular Panamera, thanks to its large hatch, already is more practical than most luxury sedans, the Sport Turismo widens the gap. There is simply nothing else like it on the market. Audi’s A7 is significantly smaller inside and based on the A6, a car positioned a class below the Panamera. The same is true of the Mercedes-Benz CLS and its not-for-the-U.S. Shooting Brake version, which will be killed in the next model generation. The Tesla Model S is similarly large, but that electric dragster/limousine plays in a class of its own. Some customers may cross-shop the Mercedes-AMG E63 wagon.

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Yeah, I'm gonna need that.

It's the practical choice. Seats fold down flatter than many current wagons, making dirtbag sleeping in parking lot a breeze.