What if I e-bike up a resort and ride their DH trails for free? Seems like they'd have to regular that pretty soon, or just make money off bike rentals.
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What if I e-bike up a resort and ride their DH trails for free? Seems like they'd have to regular that pretty soon, or just make money off bike rentals.
There are no rules for night riding.
Private land so pay up I guess or pay for the up. I’ve heard whistler is possibly set to allow them soon. I’ve often thought it’d fit well to the trails they’ll be able to put in at revelstoke mt resort. Sometimes it’s too steep and gnarly to get a clean line from top to bottom. They’ll probably have to have traverses to link sections. Might be good to build for long travel enduro bikes or ebikes . Ebike rentals could be a draw
eCycles are ideal for resorts because resorts have dirt access roads to service the lifts, etc. eMotor up the road and then ride down the trail which is maintained by the resort. It's a perfect match.
Good point, get a shitload of high powered lights and rally.Quote:
Originally Posted by rideit
Would you though? I get a ton of what you're saying about the very American pastime of judging others for having their own tastes and desires in life. I think we're all familiar with hikers, and many have even read a little Vandeman. So it's a solid point with it's own thread. But. The trails you showed do look pretty rideable on a pretty inexpensive bicycle, whereas the same money spent on an e-bike would have crappy suspension and a cheap frame and other stuff that probably shakes apart. But you could climb a little faster in the meantime. Or you could spend more to go faster and get better suspension. Is there a difference between spending more to get lighter or a motor? If the experience is the same then all you're buying is a faster experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy
Or you could get one of those loud things you've been arguing are most different from e-bikes. Cheaper, but then it would be loud and all those other things that e-bikes aren't. So that's confusing. I got nothing against you or your points here, and I say this wishing you the best: the focus on the buying habits of your over-leveraged neighbors is really only healthy if you're watching for a market downturn so you can scoop up some of their gear on the cheap. (PM Benny Profane.)
Fuck eBikes I’m getting one of these:
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A friend and I went out today and did a little over 30-miles on a well-known Bay Area loop ride today + some side excursions on our e-cycles. I think we saw a total of about 20 riders in that 30-miles. We stopped to talk to 5 or 6 and everyone was stoked with zero negativity toward our mopeds (I like that one ha ha -- thanks!). I feel like the few people that really object are looking for places like this to bitch and moan about it, but out on the trail it's nothing like that.
One expert rider PASSED me going up hill at the end. That's a bit humbling, but I was running on fumes by then. 30 miles of mostly single track is hard. It took about 5 hours, with 4,500 ft of ascent. Unpowered I think I could do 3,000 vert and about 20 miles before hitting that level of tired. My friend was DONE and I had to go back a couple of miles along the highway to pick him up. This ride was the absolute max capability of my bike. It ran out of juice 100-yards from the top of the last climb and less than 1/2 mile from the truck.
We aren't out of shape, but we do hold full-time jobs and can only ride on the weekends, usually every other week, so it's a bit sad to be told that we need to train harder to earn the right to make that kind of ride.
BTW, earlier I said that my uphill speed on tight singletrack was 5 mph and watching the speed today I realized that's wrong. It's more like 6-8 on steeper singletrack. I think an average unpowered rider is going to be in the 4-5 range. Still no conflicts though. I wait to pass until it's wide enough so I don't cause anyone else to stop.
Technology is a blessing and a curse. It's your choice to choose to be upset about it, ignore it, or use it.
^^word. Sounds fun af
That's great. They should start on access and a trail building effort. Those pretend to pedal bikes would be a fun way for couch potatoes to pretend to be mountain biking. Should be a great motorized biked network ready to shred in about 30 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy
On fat skis....you don't see the full picture. SKINNY skis were invented, like locked down heels, to make skiing on groomed and prepared surfaces easy enough for the activity to become an industry. Fat skis with rocker were invented somewhere around 8000 years ago.
It may be sad to newbies to the sport that MTN biking is hard. You can't just buy a bike and go ride up and down Mtns for 6 hours twice a month without a bit more of a commitment. Who ever said that every human is entitled to every experience in the world. I want to rock climb like 5.12 grade expert, but I want to go 20 times a year. Is that reasonable? I want to ski big mtn lines and paddle grade 5 like the icons of the sport. Where is my E-help? I'm entitled to those experiences! I'M A CONSUMER DAMN IT!!!!
'Merica. ?
"A friend and I went out today and did a little over 30-miles on a well-known Bay Area loop ride today + some side excursions on our e-cycles."
My point proved right here. Fuck You skysos sorry your out of shape but hey look on the bright side you will be on the forefront of coming user conflicts in the bay area trail network. Can't wait until they actually start fining you guys.
Tickets issued go on your DMV file and count as points for insurance
What do you have to say to the folks who spent the last 30 years lobbying, and building miles and miles of MTB trail that you now can take advantage of without putting in the effort they did? Some of those folks can now only really ride e-bikes due to age, injuries, other comittments, but you are saying you have more of a right to the trails they lobbied for and built than they do because they need a bit of help from their bike? Them riding their e-bike doesnt affect you in the slightest (no sound, no egregious speed difference, no undue thrashing of the trails.. that they built anyways). Doesn't sound very fair, or the right way to go about things, IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveVt
Lucky they have you to speak for them. If you were riding 30 years ago you know that current bikes already make the trails you lobbied for 30 years ago So much easier than when you started. So I'm guessing you weren't part of that?
So does an e-bike really make the critical difference for them? I'd love to see the injured and infirm have a chance to ride and if an e-bike gets them out there, great. But unless they're spending ridiculous money or riding fire roads a motor may just matter less than good suspension and a light bike. Course, they could change that by getting the trails dumbed down and smoothed into sidewalks so they'd be more accessible to heavy bikes with motors. Progress?
Argument 1: "ebikes barely make any difference, they're essentially the same as regular bikes, and they just allow people to go a little bit futher. The additional impacts are negligible."
Argument 2: "ebikes alllow the elderly and infirm to ride when they'd otherwise be confined to the couch!"
These arguments conflict with each other. You ebikers are gonna have to get your story straight before the wildernuts tears you to pieces.
Also, Skysos, that sounds like a rad ride. And as long as it was on moto-legal trail, good on you. Post pics.
There are a number of trails in my area which would be ideal for the older ex MTBer with a new hip, and some fused vertebrae. Long smooth single track climb, and a long smooth single track descent back down. And guess what. Those guys "came of age" in the era of rogue trails and breaking the law on trails, so they are already out there doing this, not giving much of a damn what you or i think about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jono
By the same token should we ban new bikes, which are machines that have crazy cool space age technology,on those janky techy 30 year old trails because they have made those trails easy enough for the average joe to ride them? Isnt the "access only through experience and hard work to keep users down" argument a big one in this thread?
Ebikes allow older/beat up folks an extra 5- 10 years of riding after they would have had to quit riding a normal MTB. Only looking at extremes and exceptions doesn't help the conversation.Quote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
Same shit different day
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Soooo... you still don't see how your arguments conflict with themselves. got it.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
I've been seeing a handful of these stories lately. They're heartwarming. Two that come to mind:Quote:
Originally Posted by jono
Rider with an SCI built out an e-bike version of a SC V-10 with a sitski seat. Check pinkbike. I also posted it in thread earlier before I realized this thread was just a bunch of NIMBYs raging.
Rider with a partial quad out riding with buddies on a pivot shuttle. Still limited, able to ride much more (further and more varied) than before. Think a youtube review on loam wolf.
Please explain how they conflict. An older rider extending their rideable years by a few years will not have much of an impact... especially because that rider will likely not be riding very often at that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
I don't think they are interested in fining people. Why would they when there are no actual conflicts?Quote:
Originally Posted by Redsmurfer
I don't think that is correct about DMV. It's not a motor vehicle according to California:
"Section 24016 of the Vehicle Code: A person operating an electric bicycle is not subject to the provisions of this code relating to financial responsibility, driver’s licenses, registration, and license plate requirements, and an electric bicycle is not a motor vehicle."
because people in today's society find fun and self worth in being recreationally offended, instead of focusing on recreating in the traditional sense of the word.Quote:
Originally Posted by skysos
I'm gonna say most of those guys are still out riding on regular bikes, or not riding at all because whatever ails them wouldn't make an e-bike much of an option either.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
"code relating to financial responsibility, driver’s licenses, registration, and license plate requirements, and an electric bicycle is not a motor vehicle."
illegal operation of a vehicle on trails or areas where it is prohibited is recorded under your drivers license number. The first thing they will ask you for is your drivers license, it is moving violation just like you can get a ticket for riding under the influence. Then they will run your license through the data base checking for outstanding warrants, then issue you a summons to appear in court. Also note that statue does not say anything about insurance rate impacts. Can not wait until you get your first $375 ticket and discover you have traffic school in your future.
keep telling yourself its all cool, i for one think the best way to deal with this is for MTB'ers to have solidarity against ebike access until ebikers get enough influence to change it.
Skysos ,
Where the heck is this well known 30 miles of single track in the Bay Area? I live in sf and can't think of anything you could piece together nearby nearly that length.
I'm sure you got a lot of interest from others. It's still a novelty. But people end up wrecking everything. Once there are many, I think it will be a different story w the trail Nazis out there.
Am I the only one who desperately wants creaky and rog back for this discussion? I imagine rog would have some choice words regarding "too gnarly for a hardtail" trails.
I like Yeti a lot too, but human-powered uphill travel has always been an issue for him. A few years back when Solitude was trying to expand into Silver Fork he was using the elitism argument to argue for the expansion of the ski area. In his mind, $100/day for lift tickets was less elitist than a one-time investment of a few hundred bucks for avy gear that would allow you to ski there for free for the rest of your life.Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
All the bike parks around here couldn't give less of shit if you want to pedal for laps.Quote:
Originally Posted by shredgnar
I'm sure(?) they've sealed the ever-living shit out of that thing, but if water got in and shorted the battery out it would be a sight to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by plugboots
This pretty on point.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveVt
Or, they all knew that one day like everyone else they'd be old and broken and wouldn't be able to ride that stuff any more.Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeJ
fixedQuote:
Originally Posted by Redsmurfer
Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeJ
Or they simply lost interest and moved on to other things. I'm one of the 30+ year riders who used to ride with a good group on a pretty regular basis. I more or less quit riding about 15 years ago and only started getting back into it 3 years ago, as an old guy. I ride by myself. The group I used to ride with have all quit riding or I've completely lost track of them and don't have current friends that ride. I'm okay with that as I do it primarily for the exercise and want to ride my own pace and where/when I want to ride. Most of the guys in my age group that I rode with are physically fine, relatively speaking but just don't want to do the same things that we did when we were in our twenties. I don't see e-bikes changing that for them, either. They've moved on; families, jobs, grandkids, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
I've been in a similar situation myself. Briefly but very meaningfully. Your original mention in here reminded me of it and I'm all in on the idea that e-bikes (and regular bikes) should be allowed to be used as adaptive equipment for those whose abilities allow them to do so. It's a small fraction of possible riders, but that's exactly why they should be accomodated: how much harm can they do, and why should they not be afforded whatever opportunity possible? It's similar to the argument for bikes on certain trails in designated wilderness: when the time and energy commitment is high enough to keep all but a few people from doing it those few should have the opportunity. They hurt nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by theetruscan
This is all pretty different from saying e-bikes = bikes, and should be allowed on all bike trails, obviously.
Son to me “why don’t you tell those EBikers they aren’T allowed on these non motorized trails?” Me “I’m trying not to be the guy that cares about the rules. When I tell people there doing something wrong, they generally respond angrily, which makes me angry.”
There are a lot of e bikes on non motorized trails around here. I’m sure there are going to be a lot more. The number of tourists renting them is amazing.
The trails you mention should be (and probably are) open to e-bikes. The best way to secure that access if it's not open already is to advocate with the land managers for it. Trying to get all access to all bike trails doesn't really suit the needs of that group anyway and threatens others' access.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
The difference between e-bikes and unobtainium bikes is that no matter the investment a human powered machine can never get more power than the human can provide and can only get just so light/efficient. Even if it were 10 pounds, it's not going to carry you up the hill. OTOH the e-biker who wants to go faster/farther, even class 1, just needs more (or spare) batteries and a high power setting on the assist level. I bet skysos owns a second battery within the year. It's cheaper than training. And unfortunately, it's unlimited.
Canada1 how is park city dealing with this issue. Seems if tourist are in to it, $$$ speaks. Are locals worried or pissed? just curious
I think this discussion is really not needed.
Look at Europe and you see what's going to happen here in two years.
By that time there will be so many e mountain bikes that the land managers will accept them as fait accompli.
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Europe != United states when it comes to trail and land access. It's really not an apt comparison.
It's also a bit like global warming denialism. If we're wrong, it's no big deal long-term. If he's wrong we're all fucked.
I can’t speak for the community. For me, if they follow trail etiquette, I’m okay. The lady that yelled at my nine year old daughter to get out of her way when my daughter had the right of way on an uphill just as easily could have been on a bike. My oldest thinks they cause trail damage. I have zero evidence of that. In the interim, the local shops are making money and a lot of families are getting a chance to remember how fun bikes are.
Europe is poor comparison, what happens there will not drive much over here. Culture and land policies/ownership/management are way different.Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301
Yeah, but Rog would support the proud anti helmet contingent if ebikers we all keep seeing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
Ebike encounter this morning. Riding up a fire road, taking it slow with my wife who is new to MTB. Guy goes by on an ebike and very smugly says, “Don’t worry, it’s not much further, you’ll make it.”
My wife shoots me a look, like, ok. So I pedal ahead and pass the overweight douche and say “hey look, no motor.”
If you’re gonna ride one of those, don’t act like you’re some kind of stud or pretend you’re on a regular bike, it’s not going to help people’s opinions towards them.
Wrong forum.
What do douche bag ebikers read?
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