Breaking Bad

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Originally Posted by bagtagley

I still don't see he and Jesse cooperating in any way, though.

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Nope, no way. Any thread of connection those two may have had left disappeared when Walt told Jesse he let Jane die and let Jack&Co haul him off to be tortured.

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Originally Posted by bagtagley

I think at this point, the money is gone. He can't go back to the cabin now that they know where he is, so all that's left is the $100K

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You are probably right, but the cops didn't show up at the bar until the next morning. If he acquired a vehicle quickly enough it's possible he made a run back up there to get the barrel. I can't remember if we've seen any indications of a barrel in the car he is driving in the flash forwards.

^^^ Walt's cash was on the bar, I thought the message was they just missed him.

Glass and napkin still on counter, so cops were there sooner.
But that barrel loses importance, since (1) Walt jr refuses any money and (2) he has no real way to get money to his family anyway. It would end up in the vacuum guy's hands.

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Originally Posted by neufox47

^^^ Walt's cash was on the bar, I thought the message was they just missed him.

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Glass and napkin were still on the bar, I can't remember if the cash was. I'll have to rewatch that scene, but it appeared to be morning when the cops arrived. He had to walk a slow, wheezing 8 miles just to get to the bar and we saw him leave the gate in daylight. That should put him at the bar late afternoon (with the time difference Walt Jr. would still have been at school for the call). Given the time of year, it would have to have been dusk/night if the cops showed up right after he left the bar. I thought the message was the crazy switch flipped big time when he saw the interview with Gretchen and Elliot.

Anyone else think Jack was about to kill Todd right after the scene where Jesse gives him up on film? Todd was facing the whole group and Jack was waving his gun around, and for a second I thought he was a goner...

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Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper

Y'know, Jesse is damn near every bit the nasty douchebag that Walt is. Granted, he's suffered a lot at Walt's hands, but he didn't do anything when dead-eye Opie shot that kid, and he offed that gay chemist all cold-blooded, etc. Jesse's gotta die.

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How can you see Jesse like this? Think about where Jesse was at the beginning, just some aimless idiot that was mixed up with low level meth.

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Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper

but he didn't do anything when dead-eye Opie shot that kid,

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Really? Nothing?

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and he offed that gay chemist all cold-blooded, etc. Jesse's gotta die.

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Are we watching the same show? He was crying and shaking when he shot the chemist. It's bad, for sure, but the whole point of his character is that he gets manipulated into situations he doesn't like. Compare that to Walt or any of the other nasty characters on the show, they appear to take pride and joy in the fucked up things they are doing. Walt *brags* about "being the one who knocks".

Jesse is no saint, but saying "Jesse is damn near every bit the nasty douchebag that Walt is" is just insane. Jesse and Hank are/were the only major characters in the show that are/were redeemable IMO.

Eh, jesse is a homewrecker. Has been since we first saw him. Every family he gets involved with gets screwed. The wife at his first cook, Mike, his last two girlfriends, his own family, Hank, the kid in the desert, his fat buddy and Tuco's family got destroyed entirely. Now the whites have been ruined as well.

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Originally Posted by RedWolf

Anyone else think Jack was about to kill Todd right after the scene where Jesse gives him up on film? Todd was facing the whole group and Jack was waving his gun around, and for a second I thought he was a goner...

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That was exactly what I thought - that Jack was pissed at maybe Todd not being up front about the killing or something and that some type of gunplay was gonna ensue. Didn't realize how tight knit these gangs could be - they are like SOA without the motorcycles....

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Originally Posted by Powow

How can you see Jesse like this? Think about where Jesse was at the beginning, just some aimless idiot that was mixed up with low level meth.

Really? Nothing?

Are we watching the same show? He was crying and shaking when he shot the chemist. It's bad, for sure, but the whole point of his character is that he gets manipulated into situations he doesn't like. Compare that to Walt or any of the other nasty characters on the show, they appear to take pride and joy in the fucked up things they are doing. Walt *brags* about "being the one who knocks".

Jesse is no saint, but saying "Jesse is damn near every bit the nasty douchebag that Walt is" is just insane. Jesse and Hank are/were the only major characters in the show that are/were redeemable IMO.

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Meh, I might be insane, but...

Walt was kind of a sweetheart at the beginning of the show too, so that's a wash. And did I miss something? I don't remember Jesse doing shit when the kid got wasted. And maybe he felt bad about blasting that chemist but he killed him dead right there. He's a murderer.

Walt seems to feel pretty bad about the shit he's pulled when he's not actually in the Heisenberg mode, but everything that he and Jesse touch both turns to shit. They're both culpable.

Is it that you think Jesse's cuter? ;)

marathon on AMC right now. Episode 1.

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Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper

Meh, I might be insane, but...

Walt was kind of a sweetheart at the beginning of the show too, so that's a wash. And did I miss something? I don't remember Jesse doing shit when the kid got wasted. And maybe he felt bad about blasting that chemist but he killed him dead right there. He's a murderer.

Walt seems to feel pretty bad about the shit he's pulled when he's not actually in the Heisenberg mode, but everything that he and Jesse touch both turns to shit. They're both culpable.

Is it that you think Jesse's cuter? ;)

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Like I said, he's no saint, but it's pretty obvious to me that Walt, Gus, Tuco, Todd and the rest of the Nazis, ... are on a whole different level of evil. The only time I've seen Walt express actual regret was when he got Hank killed.

Heisenberg is LBJ

http://theater.nytimes.com/2013/09/2....html?ref=arts

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Originally Posted by Two06

The whole "respect for Walt" thing puts a damper on this show for me. You kill his brother-in-law after he offers you 80 mil not to do it, then expect things to be "square". Really? Never thought he might be a little peeved at you for stealing his cash and killing his family member? Major hole in the writing. Walt should have died in the desert with Hank.

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You forget that walt and the prison gang have a history together. They killed 10 guys for him. He taught Todd how to cook and Todd likes him. Todd has been their cash cow. And walt is white and a big time criminal, which actually means something in the white power prison gang world. Walt made them rich and never fucked them over, so yeah, he earned "respect" of a sort.

Todd is the anti-Jesse. Jesse is tortured by his conscience but is a sloppy, ineffective, disruptive character. Todd, by comparison, has no conscience but is neat, polite and efficient. When Walt goes fully over to the darkside, his warped father-son relationship with Jesse ends and Walt replaces him with Todd. Now, for those of you not familiar with symbolism, "Tod" is the german word for death.

If Walt died in the desert with Hank, he would not have witnessed the total undoing of his work and his reduction to a prisoner in a cell of his own making. Walt always thought death was waiting for him around the corner, right?...so how is his death a fitting punishment for his deeds? Tragedy demands that the tragic hero be brought low as he realizes his tragic flaw in the last act. Walt is driven by pride. Walt has desperately needed to prove that he's always the smartest guy in the room even though people will get killed to prove it. Walt has always been about family, money, control and respect but its all centered on his pride, mostly. Having lost all of them, essentially, with a family that hates him, money he can't spend, trapped in a shitty cabin and dependent on the disappear guy for everything, publically disgraced and disavowed by everyone who ever knew him....now Walt has died in every way but physically. There is real dramatic meaning there when Walter jr. shouts "why don't you just die already?" Because the question remaning is whether Walt understands these consequences were all brought upon himself or if he continues to always see himself as the guy who got cheated by life. Is he still driven by his pride now that it has been totally taken from him? If Walt's character arc has any redemption left, it will be to return to ABQ to try and end the evils he has created and loosed upon his community. There is no other atonement left to him. He must finally assume responsibility for what he has done and make sure it ends with him. Heisenberg destroyed everything good Walter White had done. Will Walter White return in the finale to destroy Heisenberg in turn? Not a "hole in the writing" in my opinion, just a nod to the classics of tragic literature.

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Originally Posted by ICEHOCEY77

marathon on AMC right now. Episode 1.

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Watched it yesterday. I don't think I'd ever seen it before. I had no idea that Walt tried to kill himself in the 1st episode.

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Originally Posted by neckdeep

You forget that walt and the prison gang have a history together. They killed 10 guys for him. He taught Todd how to cook and Todd likes him. Todd has been their cash cow. And walt is white and a big time criminal, which actually means something in the white power prison gang world. Walt made them rich and never fucked them over, so yeah, he earned "respect" of a sort.

Todd is the anti-Jesse. Jesse is tortured by his conscience but is a sloppy, ineffective, disruptive character. Todd, by comparison, has no conscience but is neat, polite and efficient. When Walt goes fully over to the darkside, his warped father-son relationship with Jesse ends and Walt replaces him with Todd. Now, for those of you not familiar with symbolism, "Tod" is the german word for death.

If Walt died in the desert with Hank, he would not have witnessed the total undoing of his work and his reduction to a prisoner in a cell of his own making. Walt always thought death was waiting for him around the corner, right?...so how is his death a fitting punishment for his deeds? Tragedy demands that the tragic hero be brought low as he realizes his tragic flaw (pride, usually) in the last act. Walt has always been about family, money, control and respect (his pride, mostly). Having lost all of them, essentially, with a family that hates him, money he can't spend, trapped in a shitty cabin and dependent on the disappear guy for everything, publically disgraced and disavowed by everyone who ever knew him....now Walt has died in every way but physically. There is real dramatic meaning there when Walter jr. shouts "why don't you just die already?" Because the question remaning is whether Walt understands these consequences were all brought upon himself or if he continues to always see himself as the guy who got cheated by life. If Walt's character arc has any redemption left, it will be to return to ABQ to try and end the evils he has created and loosed upon his community. There is no other atonement left to him.

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You need your own BB blog yo - nice write up...

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Originally Posted by NoPostholio

You need your own BB blog yo - nice write up...

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seconded. nice post.

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Originally Posted by neckdeep

You forget that walt and the prison gang have a history together. ...



... If Walt's character arc has any redemption left, it will be to return to ABQ to try and end the evils he has created and loosed upon his community. There is no other atonement left to him. ....., just a nod to the classics of tragic literature.

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totally agree on Nazis position ... but is he going back for atonement or to be the wrath of Walt? On Jesse because he's alive ( blue meth) or on Gretchen and Elliot for publicly belittling his part in company or Jack and the Nazis for taking his money ( of course forgetting that without Jack he would have no money and be in prison).

I partied with Walter White on Saturday night!



... in Villa Grove. Dude was a complete look-alike. But... had absolutely no idea who Bryan Cranston is & had never heard of Breaking Bad.
- no need to touch me.[/useless almost unrelated sidenote]

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Originally Posted by neckdeep

You forget that walt and the prison gang have a history together. They killed 10 guys for him. He taught Todd how to cook and Todd likes him. Todd has been their cash cow. And walt is white and a big time criminal, which actually means something in the white power prison gang world. Walt made them rich and never fucked them over, so yeah, he earned "respect" of a sort.

Todd is the anti-Jesse. Jesse is tortured by his conscience but is a sloppy, ineffective, disruptive character. Todd, by comparison, has no conscience but is neat, polite and efficient. When Walt goes fully over to the darkside, his warped father-son relationship with Jesse ends and Walt replaces him with Todd. Now, for those of you not familiar with symbolism, "Tod" is the german word for death.

If Walt died in the desert with Hank, he would not have witnessed the total undoing of his work and his reduction to a prisoner in a cell of his own making. Walt always thought death was waiting for him around the corner, right?...so how is his death a fitting punishment for his deeds? Tragedy demands that the tragic hero be brought low as he realizes his tragic flaw in the last act. Walt is driven by pride. Walt has desperately needed to prove that he's always the smartest guy in the room even though people will get killed to prove it. Walt has always been about family, money, control and respect but its all centered on his pride, mostly. Having lost all of them, essentially, with a family that hates him, money he can't spend, trapped in a shitty cabin and dependent on the disappear guy for everything, publically disgraced and disavowed by everyone who ever knew him....now Walt has died in every way but physically. There is real dramatic meaning there when Walter jr. shouts "why don't you just die already?" Because the question remaning is whether Walt understands these consequences were all brought upon himself or if he continues to always see himself as the guy who got cheated by life. Is he still driven by his pride now that it has been totally taken from him? If Walt's character arc has any redemption left, it will be to return to ABQ to try and end the evils he has created and loosed upon his community. There is no other atonement left to him. He must finally assume responsibility for what he has done and make sure it ends with him. Heisenberg destroyed everything good Walter White had done. Will Walter White return in the finale to destroy Heisenberg in turn? Not a "hole in the writing" in my opinion, just a nod to the classics of tragic literature.

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Whoa, were you a comp lit major, yo?

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Originally Posted by neckdeep

You forget that walt and the prison gang have a history together. They killed 10 guys for him. He taught Todd how to cook and Todd likes him. Todd has been their cash cow. And walt is white and a big time criminal, which actually means something in the white power prison gang world. Walt made them rich and never fucked them over, so yeah, he earned "respect" of a sort.

Todd is the anti-Jesse. Jesse is tortured by his conscience but is a sloppy, ineffective, disruptive character. Todd, by comparison, has no conscience but is neat, polite and efficient. When Walt goes fully over to the darkside, his warped father-son relationship with Jesse ends and Walt replaces him with Todd. Now, for those of you not familiar with symbolism, "Tod" is the german word for death.

If Walt died in the desert with Hank, he would not have witnessed the total undoing of his work and his reduction to a prisoner in a cell of his own making. Walt always thought death was waiting for him around the corner, right?...so how is his death a fitting punishment for his deeds? Tragedy demands that the tragic hero be brought low as he realizes his tragic flaw in the last act. Walt is driven by pride. Walt has desperately needed to prove that he's always the smartest guy in the room even though people will get killed to prove it. Walt has always been about family, money, control and respect but its all centered on his pride, mostly. Having lost all of them, essentially, with a family that hates him, money he can't spend, trapped in a shitty cabin and dependent on the disappear guy for everything, publically disgraced and disavowed by everyone who ever knew him....now Walt has died in every way but physically. There is real dramatic meaning there when Walter jr. shouts "why don't you just die already?" Because the question remaning is whether Walt understands these consequences were all brought upon himself or if he continues to always see himself as the guy who got cheated by life. Is he still driven by his pride now that it has been totally taken from him? If Walt's character arc has any redemption left, it will be to return to ABQ to try and end the evils he has created and loosed upon his community. There is no other atonement left to him. He must finally assume responsibility for what he has done and make sure it ends with him. Heisenberg destroyed everything good Walter White had done. Will Walter White return in the finale to destroy Heisenberg in turn? Not a "hole in the writing" in my opinion, just a nod to the classics of tragic literature.

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Yeah I just thought the scene where they let Walt go with his barrel of cash was too Hollywood. Not saying the whole show is completely realistic to begin with, but nothing had ever stood out as completely unbelievable until this happened.

Maybe I don't completely understand the whole White Power gang dynamic, but I do understand the criminal underworld mentality. To any gang involved in serious criminal activity, when 80 million in cash presents itself after the killing of 2 DEA agents, there's only one logical option. Kill anyone else that witnessed it, take the 80 million, and get the fuck out of dodge. Respect doesn't enter the equation, it's just too much risk to leave Walt or Jesse alive for that matter. 4 dead bodies in the desert, that is the safest option. We're talking about people that do hits for cash here... I think you're giving them too much credit for a moral code.

Agreed, but, I thought that all logic went out the window when those guys managed to kill eight prisoners in different prisons within a two minute time frame. Really. Only on TV.

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Agreed, but, I thought that all logic went out the window when those guys managed to kill eight prisoners in different prisons within a two minute time frame. Really. Only on TV.

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Maybe a bit unrealistic, but I thought the prison killing montage was one of the best in the series.

A reader speculates in today's Wall Street Journal on the ending:

“Walt stops in a diner in New Jersey and interrupts a Soprano meal to team with Tony to stop the Nazis (also fixing the Sopranos ending)”

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Originally Posted by DougW

totally agree on Nazis position ... but is he going back for atonement or to be the wrath of Walt? On Jesse because he's alive ( blue meth) or on Gretchen and Elliot for publicly belittling his part in company or Jack and the Nazis for taking his money ( of course forgetting that without Jack he would have no money and be in prison).

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I just watched the ep again and noticed something interesting about the final scene. Walt is at the bar after calling the DEA and the TV announcer in the background says the word "turnovers" like three or four times, then there is a screeching accelerating sound, Walt visably flinches, and then the channel changes to gretchen and elliot on the charlie rose show. And yes they do deny Walt's importance in their company history but its Gretchen's statement at the end, about Walt's transformation and how he was once a sweet, wonderful friend, that seems to land the gut punch in Walt's expression. There's a cue there, some sort of narrative shift. It's the writer's deliberate choice to have the disembodied voice repeating "turnover" right as Walt totally hits bottom that got my attention. Reminds me of the accusing disembodied eye that was used several episodes in season two as Walt slides deeper. He is angry for a moment but then it looks like the wind goes out of his sails there because Gretchen's statement basically reminds him that he once knew right from wrong and had people who cared about him. The Walt we saw buying the M60 and retrieving the ricin capsule didn't seem to be raging. More like a sad resignation to a task ahead. There's a number of scenes in this ep that seem to symbolize Heisenberg is dying. Delusional, frantic plans to hire a team of hitmen and then a total physical collapse when he tries to intimidate Saul. The scenes with the hat. The realization that his money is not power and it now costs $10,000 an hour to buy a "friend". His pathetic scheme to get money to his family fails; he no longer has any charm over walt jr. And the final shot is that the drink and napkin are still there but the man (Heisenberg?) has vanished.

Any predictions?

If I wrote it, I'd have Walt prove his deviousness one last time at Todd and Uncle Jack's expense, shoot up the gang and destroy the lab and methylamine tank. He'd discover what was left of Jesse and in his shame he'd free him expecting Jesse to kill him but Jesse just limps away. Then Walt drag's his broken, dying self out to Hank's grave, apologizes to Hank and talks to the sky about what a fool he's been(you know, get in a good King Lear moment). Then he calls the DEA with the grave's location but takes the ricin because, even at the end, he's still to proud to let the DEA haul him in to face the music and too needful of control to lie around and wait to die from his cancer.

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Originally Posted by neckdeep

[...].

Any predictions?

If I wrote it, I'd have Walt prove his deviousness one last time at Todd and Uncle Jack's expense, shoot up the gang and destroy the lab and methylamine tank. He'd discover what was left of Jesse and in his shame he'd free him expecting Jesse to kill him but Jesse just limps away. Then Walt drag's his broken, dying self out to Hank's grave, apologizes to Hank and talks to the sky about what a fool he's been(you know, get in a good King Lear moment). Then he calls the DEA with the grave's location but takes the ricin because, even at the end, he's still to proud to let the DEA haul him in to face the music and too needful of control to lie around and wait to die from his cancer.

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Give it up for neckdeep - dude's on a roll.

...and Todd kills Lydia.

^^^after he has his way with her?

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Originally Posted by oftpiste

^^^after he has his way with her?

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Or before. I wouldn't put it past him.

Neckdeep has stimulated my wife's interest. Great analysis.

Enough speculating 12 hours to find out what really happens!

You're gonna need a bigger knife.

I'll make my prediction - Walt saves Jesse but Walt dies Tony Montana style, Jesse takes care of Walt's family.

Well done

Yes/no? Not a gun guy. Realistic to some degree?

Awesome end. Pretty much perfect. "Baby Blue" Badfinger, nice touch

Is this the Low Winter Sun thread?

That's how to end a series! Wish the Dexter writers could watch this and get a do-over.

Way to tie up those loose ends in just 75 minutes. Well done.

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Originally Posted by soups818

Yes/no? Not a gun guy. Realistic to some degree?

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C'mon, it's Walt...you knew when it was time to "say hello to my little friend", there had to be a trick worthy of Don Tio's booby trapped wheelchair. An M60 fires big ol' .308 slugs so yeah it could totally chop a flimsy house in half. Recoil tearing up the bot would be the real issue.

Satisfying end. About what I expected. Didn't think they'd send Walt out as a full on Macbeth/Richard III and his character was always too proud to go out with a wimper. He confessed (he didn't break bad, circumstances didn't make him do evil things, it was always there in him) but he didn't apologize.

Solid. Fucking. Ending.

I just loved the part when Lydia put the Stevia in her tea and shit got all artistic. You just knew she was a goner right there. It got even better when Walt told her she was hosed.

Where the fuck did all of that money come from? He left the bar with a large shoebox of cash, and suddenly an entire stack is on the table?