^Nice! I’ve found similar conditions, primarily scoring at Kiroro in Hokkaido.
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^Nice! I’ve found similar conditions, primarily scoring at Kiroro in Hokkaido.
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In like a lamb, out like a lion. It's happened several times in my 20yr history. But chill... April 4th 2009 I rode a slab through the forest. There have been a few others.
What happens is the forest's undergrowth gets buried and our mountains essentially become "Open Ground" for March layers. Not only is the undergrowth buried, but the rollie-pollie Mario Land features get buried and the entire forest floor gets flattened... resulting in a slide lane.
Just beware that in these seasons that High Alpine avi hazards apply to low alpine forest lines. The forest anchors are buried... and snow moves.
That said... have fun. It's rare, indeed.
Hey Gaijin, I’d be interested in more of your insights on spring conditions.
Yesterday, I had a conversation with the guide company owner who I work for, and he mentioned that spring is the “avalanche season” in Japan, and that thought hadn’t occurred to me.
North American snowpacks are skewed more toward Dec - Feb instabilities, but the fact that wet snow / storm slab avalanches happen more often in Japan during springtime is probably the distinction he’s talking about.
I also think that this year’s Feb drought and wind storms brought many more unstable layers to the Hokkaido snowpack than usual. Haven’t been to Honshu, so can’t comment on that.
Pics of some fun conditions this year for me :)
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Absolutely beautiful pics. Thanks for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by SUPERIOR
I'm gonna be a bit long-winded here, but let's get slightly into it.
I got my Avi III cert for heli guides in 2000. I've also thrown bombs for patrol. That's where you really learn about snow... working avi-control work for patrol. The Certifications are pretty on paper but what those classroom hours really do is provide a foundation to the science. You do have to learn what different snow crystals are, and how they form. Because then you begin to study the weather... and that's where things become predictable. Recipes line up, if you will. And when you work avi-control work for patrol, study the weather, and become a dork, things begin to become fairly predictable.
Which leads me to Japan... in general. Look, Japanuary is a thing. Japow is a thing. It's this light, fluffy, fairly consistent, continually falling, highly static, snow. You can go outside and have it cling to you. It's thigh deep and if you're lucky it has a drop of moisture to it. It comes from that mongolian-desert-wind sweep that picks up moisture when it hits the Japan sea. Then that freezing storm hits the Japan mountains and the clouds fail... they drop snow. It's usually fairly consistent from early January to late February.
And because it's consistent, it's predictable, it bonds, it settles. It's kind of boring.
As a skier, it's also slow as fuck. I know you all fly to JP for your Japow fix but do know it's the slowest snow in the world. We locals prefer March. When the temperature rises from your January temps of ~-17 to ~-6c and the water content increases from about 3-4% to 6-9%.
March snow is typically ankle to boot deep. And it's fast as fuck. Also, the base is filled in... meaning all of the undergrowth is buried (or should I say "shrub anchors'). Also, all the rollie-pollie features are filled in (or should I say, "terrain anchors.)
So now in March your forests have a super flat, featureless, gliding surface... topped with a moisture-heavy, slabby, new snow. Then, on top of that, the sun is coming out. So in Spring you'll see daily temperature variations that you just don't see in mid-winter.
In Spring you'll see snowballs just rolling down the hill. And then you'll see tourons just lining up to go ski that terrain... completely ignorant to the science.
And this is why I get so frustrated. I know I have more education and experience than your average joe. But when I see people lining up to ski the recipe that I know so well, I get a bit ugly. I become the old man-- "Get off my lawn."
Sorry about that. But sometimes it's just so clinically easy to read that I just want to scream.
All of that was a lot to say that in Spring in JP you have a huge variety of temperatures, wind, and layering variables stacking themselves on top of a solid winter base.
And your solid, winter base is confused... because the Spring snowfall is different, Things aren't bonding. It's like two different seasons. And then the temperature is changing each day, drastically.
Classic March 15th-- You have a frozen base. You get a warmer new layer of 20-30cm. Then temperatures rise again within 24 hours. The surface snow melts. What do you think is going to happen?
It's going to roll down hill.... in a snowball.
By the way... all avalanches are snowballs. I know they look like blankets sliding on a table, but they're actually rolling snowpacks. .
Thanks for that gaijin.
Thinking through it in NorAm terms to get this in my head. JaPow earlier season terms is about consistency. Big changes in snow amounts but smaller changes over time in other areas (temps, wind etc).
Japan from March onwards is about constant change over smaller time-frames which potentially lends itself to instabilities
A good read featuring the one and only Dave Enright-- https://www.snowsbest.com/avalanches...FYOR3Xd6D3gWq8
I only spent one day there last month and had an interesting experience. The inbounds wasn't that great but we skinned up to the peak and found the conditions to be fantastic. It was on a holiday Sunday though and there had to be 40 snowmobiles out and about. Annoying but there's plenty of space for everyone. As we were descending off the back of the peak someone thought it would be cool to join us and came down the slope above us, following us down the mountain and then passing alongside. It was incredibly reckless and while the snow was stable it's still not a great feeling to have a snowmobile descending on a 40 degree slope above you.Quote:
Originally Posted by SUPERIOR
I'm not sure how common that area is for snowmobiling, it could have been a one time thing due to the holiday or maybe it's a regular occurrence there?
Pretty much, though down in Nagano and Niigata I think the changeover typically occurs in late February. Solar radiation is a huge factor as well, even if the temps haven't increased the sun is so strong this far south once the days start getting longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeLau
This year wasn't normal at all, the jet stream hasn't been where it should and we never had that consistency throughout late December/mid February that we usually do. That happened back in 2019-20 as well but that year the moisture got diverted northwards and it stayed dry. This year we've been getting moisture but instead of coming out of the NW from the Asia mainland it's been a lot of storms coming out of the SW. These were still just cold enough to fall as snow down in the Alps but it's meant that eastern Japan has been wet this winter instead of the usual cold/dry combo that's normal.
On a positive, I suspect that Fuji will be in good shape for skiing this spring. It typically doesn't get much snow during the winter because the Alps block the moisture but that hasn't been the case this year.
Inbounds is consistently deep and untracked but short runsQuote:
Originally Posted by CascadeCrudSkier
Touring from the base and from the summit great is easy and great
Snowmobilers come and go. Sometimes there's what feels like hundreds up there. Then weeks of no one.
That inbounds experience was my feeling, we only lasted 2 runs before getting tired of the stair-step nature of the terrain and the extended flat stretches. The area itself is large but it skis small.
I think if I'm ever back there I'll try it on a mid-week day and avoid weekends just to try and minimize the chances of encountering another sled rally.
I shit you not, we skied the same day.Quote:
Originally Posted by CascadeCrudSkier
At least 30 snowmobiles on a Sunday. I had clients with me, and we commented on the dangers of sleds vs skiers.
Kiroro has grown to be my favorite resort in the area, simply because it is so quirky. If you can figure out the quirks, it skis quit well.
Kiroro also gets so damn much snow! Does the Aussie still have the coffee shop in the front of the building? He showed me around pretty good one time.
Question for the group- heading to Japan with my wife and 13 year old next year. We have to work around his school schedule so we have two date options.
1. Leave around Dec 27th and come home Jan 5th. Thats earlier than I’d like but it’s an option
2. Leave around feb 14th and come back March 2nd.
Also, will be skiing
On the epic pass so either Rusutsu or Hakuba….leaning Rusutsu.
Thanks!
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Hey Montanaskier, I’m happy to provide you some reccos if you PM me your email or number. I guide out of Niseko, and can give some good info.
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@montanaskier those 2 windows aren't the same length, seems like an easy choice to select the longer option. Plus option #1 crosses the New Year and you're really gambling on getting a good early season base built up to be arriving that early. Many places aren't even fully open until 1 January.
I've said this a few times in other posts but choosing a location to ski in Japan to save money on lift tickets is a poor way to design a trip; saving $150-180 per day in ticket costs for 3 people seems like a sound economic decision but it's really not. There are lots of reasons to ski Hakuba or Rusutsu but you're going to be spending a premium on lodging and/or food in those places during the winter that will more than offset any ticket savings. Go back to the beginning of the thread and check out the powderhounds website; it has far more details on the different regions, types of resorts available, and is easy to navigate.
For location decide how important seeing Japan is vs skiing Japan; if the family wants to see things then I'd focus your trip on Honshu. If nobody cares then Hokkaido is a safer option for snow. Or if you are set on Hokkaido and have 2 weeks, bookend around 2 days in Tokyo on the front and backend of the trip. This allows you to have your gear shipped between the airport and your lodging in Hokkaido, then spend 2-3 days in Kyoto/Nara before flying to Hokkaido and then ship your gear from your hotel directly to the airport and spend your last 2 days in Tokyo seeing the sites.
Good advice ^
This is the key. There are some obvious ins & outs.Quote:
Originally Posted by SUPERIOR
And loads of decent lines which aren't.
Kiroro is about feeling not vertical.
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by beer30
Cam has his own place down in Otaru now. Skis Sapporo Kokusai more than Kiroro.
This 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by CascadeCrudSkier
x2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Pow
Also— at the risk of sounding like a broken record— Japanuary is over-rated. The base is thin, bushes might be covered, but they’re still mounds of snow to get over, which slows down the flow of your line. The snow is super cold, and blower, but also staticky and slow.
Late Feb/Early March is peak season for forest lines. The forest floor is flat, and the snow is ~10c warmer and significantly faster.
But I’m a snow snob. I get it.
Also, don’t shrug off Tokyo and/or Kyoto. Both are rad in their own way and very deserving of their own trip. I’ve been to Kyoto a handful of times and am always amped to go. And when I lived in Tokyo, I quickly learned why everyone lives there. It’s rad.
You’ve seen aerial photos of Tokyo that show the vastness— now imagine that there’s also a city under that. Shinjuku itself is seven metro layers deep.
The civil engineering that goes into that city boggles the mind. There’s no better way to contrast your pow voyage in the mountains.
Typing that makes me recall how my 6 week ski trip to NZ was somehow topped with an 8hr layover in Fiji on the beach with Moses. The best unanticipated 8hours of my life.
And Tokyo was my biggest surprise. Spend time there if you can.
X 2 on Tokyo. Perfect wind down/transition after a few weeks of skiing. So much fun, so interesting. Food, bars, stuff! I hate cities, but love Tokyo.
Headed there tomorrow and looking forward to exploring!
Thanks for the reply. I’ll add some context, we are going to fly from CO to Hawaii first…maybe 2-3 days there. From there we fly to Tokyo and train to wherever we are going to ski. Skiing for 5 days then back to Tokyo for 3 days and home.Quote:
Originally Posted by CascadeCrudSkier
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I might suggest city trip first, it’s good to get over jet lag before charging around on skis
In this case I'd definitely recommend staying on Honshu if you'll only be skiing 5 days. Recommend looking at Hakuba or Nozawa Onsen to start your search. Hakuba has several resorts but requires using public transportation to get between them; Nozawa is a village surrounding a single resort where you can walk everywhere. Both can be reached by train, Nozawa is slightly faster now that there's a shinkansen stop in Iiyama but you'll still need to have your hotel pick you up at the station. Hakuba will be the same but it requires an extra leg via a slow local train once you leave Nagano station.Quote:
Originally Posted by montanaskier
Nozawa may get small for 5 days but I believe there are buses that run to Madarao, that's a really fun resort for 1-2 days as well. Hakuba is large enough you can ski a different resort for each of your 5 days. The negative is that in Hakuba you're either choosing to stay near the snow or near the restaurants; you can get both at Happo but that's my least favorite place to ski so I consider that still passing up staying near the snow. If you focus on snow I'd look to the north end of the valley in the Otari region.