Wolves are rad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

I’m sure you are aware that there is a lot of private rangeland in the inter mountain west. I don’t really see why that would make a difference for compensation. Just because we killed wolves before doesn’t really matter, times change.

---

My point is if the government is introducing an aesthetic policy that has a stochastic negative impact on private business while also limiting business ability to mitigate, then the government should compensate. My point is also the public rangeland argument is a convenient cudgel to beat up on ranchers with that is actually mostly a nonsequitor.

My personal background was just a my-card-on-the-table so my arguments are seen as genuine rather than agenda driven.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

White tail are just a little more abundant in NY than mule deer in WA.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

---

Evasive little creatures, those whitetails.

Waskily whitetail.

And whitetail are tasty. Save the crop and fill the freezer with organic lean protein. Win win in my books. The chronic wasting disease moving north from montana and idaho is trouble however.

ETA: there was a program here that if deer or moose was incidentally taken (accidental hunt, crop protection, or euthanized due to vehicle incident), that you would be authorized to dress the animal to the degree to prevent spoilage, notify the Conservation Officer, and the meat would go to the cutter and donated to the food bank/social programs. Not sure if that is still active, but always thought that was a great idea. Mushers up north also had an agreement with the COS and DOT to recover road kill for their sled dogs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BCMtnHound

And whitetail are tasty. Save the crop and fill the freezer with organic lean protein. Win win in my books. The chronic wasting disease moving north from montana and idaho is trouble however.

ETA: there was a program here that if deer or moose was incidentally taken (accidental hunt, crop protection, or euthanized due to vehicle incident), that you would be authorized to dress the animal to the degree to prevent spoilage, notify the Conservation Officer, and the meat would go to the cutter and donated to the food bank/social programs. Not sure if that is still active, but always thought that was a great idea. Mushers up north also had an agreement with the COS and DOT to recover road kill for their sled dogs.

---

A similar program exists in Colorado except that private individuals can keep the harvest. Basically just call the a state Parks & Wildlife office within 48hr of the incident and you're all good.

50 yards off the road. Looking a little rough. 1000#s of rotting bison must not be agreeing with him..https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d2a46ff83e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...c7ddfb0fa6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...f118686806.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk

^^^Did the landowner put that bison down because it was injured/dying, or because they wanted to feed the wolves?

Either way is cool with me, just curious.

Turner ranch. They put a couple bison down that were sick.

The guide said this is the largest wolfpack in the continental US. Flying d Ranch.

Here’s a piece on what Turner is doing with wolves at Flying D.
Great that he wants to do stuff like this

Will have to watch that. Early 2000s I was working in the big easy area of big sky. One morning I was chaining up the work truck with a 5th wheel right before the ousel falls bridge. It's cold as fuck and I'm trying to get shit done. As I'm tensioning last chain I get a weird feeling. I turn around and less then 20ft away on a small rise next to the road I see a large black alpha wolf, then 6 more. They all are looking at me. I was in awe. Then I made a bunch of noise and they very slowly walked away while I jumped back in the truck. Another very early morning before the construction rush in Gallatin canyon I was just past Spanish ck and I had to slam on my brakes to not hit the huge wolf in the middle of the highway. Still the biggest wolf I've ever seen and it stopped dead in the middle of the highway and stared at my little toyota before disappearing into the woods. Both of these encounters were quite a bit before FWP were admitting wolves were any further north of Taylor fork. I know big suprise.

Sent from my SM-S236DL using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TBS

Here’s a piece on what Turner is doing with wolves at Flying D.
Great that he wants to do stuff like this

---

Now that really was rad. Thanks for sharing.

Big takeaway points for me are 15:30 and 19:30 on.

Enjoyed the video. I "like" wolves too, as long as they are managed effectively.

Ted Turner bought that ranch as a plaything. He never had to make a living off it. He can absorb a lot more losses than an average rancher operating on a razor thin margin, so what does he (or his mouthpiece in the video) know about "insignificant" livestock losses? He's a godamn billionaire.

Also, he charges a few rich fucks thousands of dollars every year to shoot a bull elk on his land, but that ranch sees nothing remotely close to the hunting pressure on public land. Thousands of elk still hang out on his land to hide from average everyday hunters, so to say that the wolves have had an "insignificant" effect on the hunting is really disingenuous and ignores the very real effect wolves have had on public land hunting in SOME areas where they have not been effectively managed.

Be a sweet gig to chase wolves around on Ted Turner's ranch though. I wonder if that plays into her findings.

It's been interesting being the chef of the hunting camp. On a break now between archery and rifle.

4 clients a week for 9 weeks. Flying d let's us take 37 bull elk max.

Archery is hard. Made harder when half or more of the clients can't walk 100 yrds wo dieing. Most are rebooks who have been coming for 20/30 yrs. Old boys club.

One cool guy and 3 douchebags each week pretty much. Some cool ppl but the trophy hunting thing is pretty wack. Not sure I'll continue to do it.

The guides are cool as hell though. And spend 15 hrs a day w the dB's. I get to see them at meals only.

They pay 30 grand to get a guide to call an elk right to them. Most of these ppl have trophy rooms bigger than our houses. Crazy town.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by yeahman

Enjoyed the video. I "like" wolves too, as long as they are managed effectively.

Ted Turner bought that ranch as a plaything. He never had to make a living off it. He can absorb a lot more losses than an average rancher operating on a razor thin margin, so what does he (or his mouthpiece in the video) know about "insignificant" livestock losses? He's a godamn billionaire.

Also, he charges a few rich fucks thousands of dollars every year to shoot a bull elk on his land, but that ranch sees nothing remotely close to the hunting pressure on public land. Thousands of elk still hang out on his land to hide from average everyday hunters, so to say that the wolves have had an "insignificant" effect on the hunting is really disingenuous and ignores the very real effect wolves have had on public land hunting in SOME areas where they have not been effectively managed.

Be a sweet gig to chase wolves around on Ted Turner's ranch though. I wonder if that plays into her findings.

---

You may have missed the part where Turner expects the Flying D to be profitable.

Would it surprise you to know that cougars take more livestock than wolves in Montana and Grizzlies take about 3x more livestock? And coyotes are the biggest livestock predators in the state?

https://nbcmontana.com/news/local/ho...ed-in-montana#

And if so many elk head to the Flying D during hunting season, wouldn’t the wolves follow and kill them there? Last I heard wolves have little respect for boundaries and hunting seasons

Pretty sure the d is in profit. Thousands of head of bison all reserved for whole foods. Don't really know though.

I’m just going off what was said in the video…

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by byates1

Pretty sure the d is in profit. Thousands of head of bison all reserved for whole foods. Don't really know though.

---

And Ted's Montana Grills. I've done a fair bit of business opposite Ted and let me tell you, he doesn't do any commercial thing for free or a loss.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TBS

I’m just going off what was said in the video…

---

That too. Although I'm confused why margins and profitability are even being discussed when wolf kill reimbursements exist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by yeahman

Enjoyed the video. I "like" wolves too, as long as they are managed effectively.

Ted Turner bought that ranch as a plaything. He never had to make a living off it. He can absorb a lot more losses than an average rancher operating on a razor thin margin, so what does he (or his mouthpiece in the video) know about "insignificant" livestock losses? He's a godamn billionaire.

Also, he charges a few rich fucks thousands of dollars every year to shoot a bull elk on his land, but that ranch sees nothing remotely close to the hunting pressure on public land. Thousands of elk still hang out on his land to hide from average everyday hunters, so to say that the wolves have had an "insignificant" effect on the hunting is really disingenuous and ignores the very real effect wolves have had on public land hunting in SOME areas where they have not been effectively managed.

Be a sweet gig to chase wolves around on Ted Turner's ranch though. I wonder if that plays into her findings.

---

Wolves aren't to be managed so that hunters have more opportunity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DBdude

Wolves aren't to be managed so that hunters have more opportunity.

---

Who says? You seem to forget that wolf management is largely PAID for by hunters through license fees. Here is a book you might find interesting.

How Sportsmen Saved the World: The Unsung Conservation Efforts of Hunters and Anglers https://a.co/d/3AdwuiP

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

And Ted's Montana Grills. I've done a fair bit of business opposite Ted and let me tell you, he doesn't do any commercial thing for free or a loss.




That too. Although I'm confused why margins and profitability are even being discussed when wolf kill reimbursements exist.

---

Yes, we all love being "reimbursed," don't we? Since you seem to know so much about it, perhaps you could explain to us in detail the specifics of the various compensation programs. How long does it take to get paid? How much paperwork is required? Does it actually cover the costs? What type of proof of kill is required? How much of a time suck is it for the rancher? That type of thing. You can start your research with this 2024 article that took a five second search to find.

https://www.agalert.com/california-a...hers-runs-dry/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by yeahman

Yes, we all love being "reimbursed," don't we? Since you seem to know so much about it, perhaps you could explain to us in detail the specifics of the various compensation programs. How long does it take to get paid? How much paperwork is required? Does it actually cover the costs? What type of proof of kill is required? How much of a time suck is it for the rancher? That type of thing. You can start your research with this 2024 article that took a five second search to find.

https://www.agalert.com/california-a...hers-runs-dry/

---

I hear you and appreciate your differing perspective in this thread. If it’s anything like any other government reimbursement program it’s probably slow and arduous and delivers at just about the break even mark. As it’s intended to - the government doesn’t reward people for losses, it does the bare minimum to make them whole. I don’t need to do any research to know how government reimbursements work.

That said, I don’t think that’s any reason for the shoot, shovel, shut up approach that some ranchers proudly espouse. Which, if you’ll recall, is my only gripe with ranchers as it pertains to this specific topic.

It’s a risk to ranch in areas where predators, not just wolves as TBS points out, take their prey. You can either accept that cost of doing business and mitigate it through public reimbursement or private insurance, but thats no excuse to appoint ranchers as the arbiter of wildlife management - by their own gun or otherwise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by yeahman

Who says? You seem to forget that wolf management is largely PAID for by hunters through license fees. Here is a book you might find interesting.

How Sportsmen Saved the World: The Unsung Conservation Efforts of Hunters and Anglers https://a.co/d/3AdwuiP

---

don't care - wolves will manage and cull the heard

i am familiar with hunting of all sorts and the hunter as conservationist in my opinion is a fact in water fowl. not in the large mammal setting

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by yeahman

Yes, we all love being "reimbursed," don't we? Since you seem to know so much about it, perhaps you could explain to us in detail the specifics of the various compensation programs. How long does it take to get paid? How much paperwork is required? Does it actually cover the costs? What type of proof of kill is required? How much of a time suck is it for the rancher? That type of thing. You can start your research with this 2024 article that took a five second search to find.

https://www.agalert.com/california-a...hers-runs-dry/

---

let's really gt bacjk to basics. range fed cattle a pimple on the meat industries ass. ranchers get a shit ton of money in various programs. it's not a right to run cattle on federal land. it's just as much my land as theirs and I prefer wolves be left alone

you don't have to like my opinion

I don't like yours

It's as much my land as anyone else's in this country

second, if you can't make money - go out of business. shumpeters theory of creative destruction

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DBdude

don't care - wolves will manage and cull the heard

i am familiar with hunting of all sorts and the hunter as conservationist in my opinion is a fact in water fowl. not in the large mammal setting

---

You are wrong. But it is TRG.

https://youtu.be/-FYv4yjOi2Q?si=OtOokGiRJJ3gpuZ2

Pretty in depth on wolves