Rossignol Black Ops?

Anyone have a comparison on the BO 98 vs the PB&J/WC 101? Seen a fair bit of comparison here against the WC 108 but to me the Wildcat line is all different from one another despite being similar on paper.

I have PB&Js and enjoy them a lot, my only gripe is due to the large amount of camber and abrupt flex they can feel hooky on steeps and bumps, and the edge hold on early season ice isn’t superb (prob more of a tuning thing than anything). Looking for something similarly fun and poppy that can still handle going fast in rough stuff. Chief concern with these is maybe not stiff enough? But I keep seeing good things. I’d be getting a 192 since I’m 6’2

Also just to confirm the 98 hasn’t changed in the last ~3 seasons?


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Originally Posted by forumskier

The video of the BO98 the dude is ripping. They were my cheapest ski purchase this season, but my most intriguing. Glad I got some demo binders on them to figure out mount point too. First day of the season I’ll be on Holy Shreds

Based on what I’ve seen over the years, I think these skis would be right up your alley. It seems like you enjoy progressive, loose but stable skis, and these seem like that.

Same ski so should be 179.2 as well

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Fondled a pair of last year's BO 98 in the shop today. I measured them ~179.1 straight pull Looks like a really good ski for me. I'd prolly go -4cm. Just need to find some 95mm Pivots 15s.

KC

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Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth

Anyone have a comparison on the BO 98 vs the PB&J/WC 101? Seen a fair bit of comparison here against the WC 108 but to me the Wildcat line is all different from one another despite being similar on paper.

I have PB&Js and enjoy them a lot, my only gripe is due to the large amount of camber and abrupt flex they can feel hooky on steeps and bumps, and the edge hold on early season ice isn’t superb (prob more of a tuning thing than anything). Looking for something similarly fun and poppy that can still handle going fast in rough stuff. Chief concern with these is maybe not stiff enough? But I keep seeing good things. I’d be getting a 192 since I’m 6’2

Also just to confirm the 98 hasn’t changed in the last ~3 seasons?


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The ski hasn’t changed in 3 years but lots of deals on last years BO98 at places like Corbett’s that have lots of 182cm left(18 pairs) and 2 pairs of 192cm left. Message me if you need a contact there for better than advertised pricing.

The flex pattern is somewhat similar to the Wildcat 101/PB&J in that it’s softer on the extreme tip/tail but the Blackops/Sender Free don’t ramp up as aggressively as Moment skis towards the center. Very similar flex pattern to the MFree 99/108 in the BO 98. The 192cm BO 98 is just like the 192cm MFree 108 with a slightly lower peak flex underfoot. Soothski has the 24 192cm BO 98 as well as the 182cm of several years on there.

Much more effective edge on the BO 98 vs the Moments and they don’t mind being sharp all the way to their widest points. Moments don’t love being sharp above their contact points I find. Grip should definitely be improved over Moments and their flex pattern should be more forgiving in bumps. Stability should be in the same ballpark but the rubber in the BO 98 should quiet things more in harder snow. 192cm BO 98 is close to 2200gr so not a lightweight ski either.

I got a set of 182cm BO 98 this Spring to use a daily driver travel ski. Should be more forgiving than my 21 Faction CT skis in Revelstoke trees and Lake Louise bowls I usually ski there.

Sounds like what I'm looking for. I almost never buy new skis but it's like the same price to buy these new vs used right now so might just pull the trigger. I wish they made like a 187

Where have people been happy mounting these? Most of my skis are a similar style mounted -5-6 (Bibby, PB&J, MVP 108) so wondering about going -1 from recommended. Feels like there could be a lot of tail in the 192

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Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth

Sounds like what I'm looking for. I almost never buy new skis but it's like the same price to buy these new vs used right now so might just pull the trigger. I wish they made like a 187

Where have people been happy mounting these? Most of my skis are a similar style mounted -5-6 (Bibby, PB&J, MVP 108) so wondering about going -1 from recommended. Feels like there could be a lot of tail in the 192

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See it measures 189.1cm according to Soothski, so not too far off the 187cm mark. Factory mark is around 4.7cm and I went back around -1.5cm on the 182cm to make it ski longer. Think around rec would be good or a bit back. Going to feel shorter if you go at rec, a bit more stable back a bit.

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Originally Posted by noslow

See it measures 189.1cm according to Soothski, so not too far off the 187cm mark. Factory mark is around 4.7cm and I went back around -1.5cm on the 182cm to make it ski longer. Think around rec would be good or a bit back. Going to feel shorter if you go at rec, a bit more stable back a bit.

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Yeah I might go -1 from rec at most. Plenty of ski there and from reviews I’ve found it seems like the 192 can be a bit of an ass kicker if mounted further back, more so than the 182. People make them sound like very different skis…

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Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth

Yeah I might go -1 from rec at most. Plenty of ski there and from reviews I’ve found it seems like the 192 can be a bit of an ass kicker if mounted further back, more so than the 182. People make them sound like very different skis…

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Definitely a tune issue(edge high) with the 192cm BO 98 that started the “the 192cm is so much more ski” wive’s tale. Have flexed them back to back with the 182cm multiple times and just a bit more stiff like any other ski going up a size.

So make sure any new Blackops ski is flat and that the base bevel is uniform and you should be good to go.

Wes:

I have a new pair of 182's in Snowmass, if you want to look/flex.

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Originally Posted by Shredhead

Wes:

I have a new pair of 182's in Snowmass, if you want to look/flex.

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Appreciate the offer! I’ve checked them out in a shop before and knowing myself I just need to try ‘em out or I’ll keep researching forever and still end up buying them, so I grabbed a cheap pair of 192s from corbetts before they sell out

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Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth

Appreciate the offer! I’ve checked them out in a shop before and knowing myself I just need to try ‘em out or I’ll keep researching forever and still end up buying them, so I grabbed a cheap pair of 192s from corbetts before they sell out

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Sweet! Sent a message to my Corbetts contact to look for your invoice to see if he can do anything for you. He’s back from vacation next week.

I went -1 on the 182s and still felt like they had too much tail, wanting to hang up and pitch me forward in soft or variable snow. I’d go farther back next time. I’m not sure how that experience translates to the 192s, but I suspect the skis have a similar balance.

I had analysis paralysis with the 192s for at least two years because of the weird reviews on that size compared to the 182s. I believe Blister even said the 192s were weird, and in one of their buyers guides they wrote they were way less park orientated than the 182s, with a much larger discrepancy between the sizes compared to other skis like MFree108s 182/192 and others.

Mr. Pretzel on here also said the 192s were meh, and it didn't ski as expected. If I recall correctly, he explained to me that most of the 19Xcm playful/charger all mountain twins didn't ski with the same character of their shorter counterparts for him, the outlier being Moments Mustache twins.. I've felt this a few times with some skis as well. When going to the 19X lengths you lose the playfulness originally intended, especially in the park, and then they also don't charge nearly as well as a more directional charger like a Volkl/Blizzard/etc.

Bob from SkiEssentials seems to love the 192s.

I was at the point where I wasn't going to buy a pair, was going to grab M6 Mantras from Corbetts instead for firm off piste moguls, and just use my Wildcat 108s for park. Then a mint pair of 192 Holy Shreds popped up with demo binders for $150 on Lone Pine... I've been handling them ever since they arrived and them seem so fun, I'm glad I finally got a set. I'm hoping for a more rubbery, vibration muting experience compared to the other 19X softer twins I've experienced... which I fully expect since they are "Blackops". Also hoping they are significantly more jibby than Wildcats.

I wish someone would make a super twin. Something like a 184 Monster 98, with a wider twinned tail to be more symmetrical, and slightly longer to make up for the twinning effect. Same beefy construction.

First things first, if the tails are grabby - check the tune. I went back 2cm from rec on my pair (which make the tails stronger, if shorter) and hated my first pair and really struggled with my second pair at that mounting spot. I then checked and fixed the tune on my second pair. The tails went from feeling stuck/catchy to being very loose (when you want them to). So if they feel like shait, then check the tune before giving up on them.

Also, the BO98 is a strong ski in that its construction can rally - strong underfoot and damp ends - and has a sidecut that does what you tell it to. They will not want to drag you into a turn like mantras (or any volkl), but will happily do so if and when you tell them to. The best compliment I can give them is that they are kinda meh across all conditions while still being fun, which is exactly what I am looking for in this type of a ski.

And yes, writing a hot take on them upthread while being hammered might have hyped them a bit too much, but still - they are great skis for the right skier imho.

Interesting, thanks. What was the issue with the tune so I know what to look out for? Or were the tails just too sharp


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If a ski feels too grabby/hard to pivot, seems “stuck in a turn” then the likely cause is an edge high ski and/or the base bevel is not uniform tip to tail(should be 1 degree from the factory). Skis that seem super loose and unstable like your skiing on marbles, the ski is usually base high and possibly over bevelled(base bevel way above 1 degree).

Stone grind to flatten the base and reset the base bevels and then re-establish base bevels to cure either issue.

All my BO 118 and Sender Free 110 have been base high and my BO 98 were edge high.

Is the 192 BO98 stiffer than the BO118, or still similar (middle of the ski)? I'm on the fence too.

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Originally Posted by JRainey

Is the 192 BO98 stiffer than the BO118, or still similar (middle of the ski)? I'm on the fence too.

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The BO 98 192cm is a bit softer at the extreme ends vs the BO 118, similar in front/behind the bindings and the 192cm BO 98 a bitt stiffer underfoot. The 182cm BO 98 softer everywhere else but similar underfoot to the BO 118. The BO 118 more uniform flex tip to tail than most skis out there.

If you are familiar with the Dynastar MFree 108 flex, the BO 98 are similar.. The difference in flex between the 182cm and 192cm MFree 108 is larger though than the BO 98 line.

Nice, I like that uniform flex, but it's it's a little stiffer like the SF110 then that's ok too.

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Originally Posted by noslow

Sweet! Sent a message to my Corbetts contact to look for your invoice to see if he can do anything for you. He’s back from vacation next week.

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Thanks for the hookup! I got a $50 refund off my order


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Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth

Thanks for the hookup! I got a $50 refund off my order


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Sweet!

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Originally Posted by JRainey

Nice, I like that uniform flex, but it's it's a little stiffer like the SF110 then that's ok too.

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The SF 110 is very uniform like the BO118 but a hair stiffer throughout.
So I’d guess the 192cm SF 110 would be similar underfoot(maybe the SF 110 a hair stiffer?) and the BO 98 still softer at the extremes.
The 192cm SF 110 should be more “demanding” than the 192cm BO 98 so that’s why I think all these reviews of the long BO 98 being some insane comp ski are way overblown.

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Originally Posted by D(C)

I went -1 on the 182s and still felt like they had too much tail, wanting to hang up and pitch me forward in soft or variable snow. I’d go farther back next time. I’m not sure how that experience translates to the 192s, but I suspect the skis have a similar balance.

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Local shop matched Corbetts price so I now own the 182 BO98’s. Picked up some new Pivot 15s for $330CDN too. The raw should look good on these.

My thinking is I’m alway gonna be on my HL FR110’s if there is some fresh. Also I really don’t think I need any skis between 100mm - 110mm anymore. <100mm is more fun in low tide and my wife has been taking my 96mm Aero’s (also 179cm straight pull) so these BO98’s will be perfect.

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Originally Posted by kid-kapow

The best compliment I can give them is that they are kinda meh across all conditions while still being fun, which is exactly what I am looking for in this type of a ski.

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Pretty much this. They do what you tell them, easy to ski but still have some backbone. Fun ski. I think I mounted my 192s a little forward of the line.

“That swingweight effect is more or less gone for the new 118 thanks to less material in the tips/tails, making it much easier to ski on lower-angle slopes and in tight terrain like glades. It floats like a dream, and it’s still more of a fall line charger than a ‘surfy’ ski but it’s much improved for ease of use in soft conditions. For that, it does give up some crud-bashing performance, but it’s still one of the most capable skis we’ve tried in choppy snow.”


From Newschoolers

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Originally Posted by forumskier

“That swingweight effect is more or less gone for the new 118 thanks to less material in the tips/tails, making it much easier to ski on lower-angle slopes and in tight terrain like glades. It floats like a dream, and it’s still more of a fall line charger than a ‘surfy’ ski but it’s much improved for ease of use in soft conditions. For that, it does give up some crud-bashing performance, but it’s still one of the most capable skis we’ve tried in choppy snow.”


From Newschoolers

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I was all in on this ski until Heritage Labs sucked me onto the ST 120 FR. They're still on my radar.