I'd recommend just take them to a shop with a release tester. Hell, even if the label didn't move, binding release values are often far from accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301
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I'd recommend just take them to a shop with a release tester. Hell, even if the label didn't move, binding release values are often far from accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301
Does it have to be a release tester specific to a pin binding?
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Most shops will have a Vermont tester which works by putting the tool into the boot and then twisting it out of the binding. Meaning it can test any binding, not just DIN ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301
G3 tests every single binding that leaves their factory. If you look at multiple pairs of their bindings, the indicator line for DIN will be on a different point on the adjustment piece because they don't put the line on there until after they've tested the binding.Quote:
Originally Posted by SawtoothDude
With the Vermont tester, does the boot have to be in the binding?
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Yep. The test is effectively just prying the boot out of the binding and seeing how much force it took to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301
Pondering the difference between Ion LT and standard. If I understand correctly, the brakes can only be swapped with the heel piece removed from the ski? Does the mean that if installed via inserts, the ion could be an ion LT when desired? Perhaps the arms cannot be removed from the stomp pad? Any reason I couldn't purchase the LT and a set of brakes separately and swap as needed? Too lazy to search through all 20 pages to see if this has been discussed.
nickel. Think your thinking of the new ZEN due out next year. It has the interchangeable brake. Anxiously waiting to get my dirty little pecker pullers on a pair
definitely thinking of the ion, not the new untested thing allegedly held together with wood screws.
Further investigation leads me to believe you can't put brakes on the LT. Having said that, can you remove or swap the brakes on the standard ion if the binding is installed with inserts and swapped between different setups?
For all practical purposes, no.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickel
Swapping brakes is a project requiring an advanced skill set. You'll find comments about this earlier in this thread.
... Thom
Well, you can probably try that but that will be a pain in the ass. I spent around an hour even with photos from wildsnow trying to figure out how brakes and brake catching mechanism work on Ions. I can probably do that in 15-20 mins now after understanding the process. A won't say that require an advanced skill set, but you should be aware that for brake removal you should fully disassemble brake catching mechanism with couple of springs and reset them when assembling back. If you plan to swap Ions once or twice a year, that could probably work.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickel
By the way, I think I asked it in other Ions thread. Can anybody explain toe locking clicks? 1st - skiing mode, toe fully unlocked, 4th click - toe fully locked for touring. What's 2nd and 3rd position for? I usually ski on 2nd position as I got tons of unwanted pre-releases with 1st
I got an answer from G3 regarding my question: "Pulling the toe lock lever up locks out the bindings, regardless of whether it's one click or multiple clicks. You should not be skiing locked out. The correct setting for skiing is the setting when the pins are set into the pin inserts- no clicks from pulling up the lever lock."Quote:
Originally Posted by HukuTa_KydecHuk
That's interesting, because I've experienced toe release while touring when i accidentally forgot to lock it out completely (i was on 2nd or 3rd click). At the same time, I never had any releases on the last click (full lockout) even under serious pressure. Plus, in case of falls on 2nd click, when heel was releasing, there were also no problems with appropriate toe release.
At least with dynafit I always took the click thing as some kind of skiing myth, i have never seen any kind of written info on this from any Tech binding maker and Imo it makes no sense that there can be any kind of exact release based on some clicks of a plastic lever
What I do believe is that tech bindings pre-release because people don't clear the snow & ice from under the springs or boot sockets, if they fail to do this even once their tech binding pre-releases, so they will say tech bindings pre-release ... they lock em out and the binding never pre-release
My old radical ft12 toes torque tested to about the equivalent of a 7.5 din setting. i weigh between 215 and 225 nekkid. Tell me again that i prereleased unlocked due to not cleaning out the toes.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
7.5 for just pins and no heel, what boot, what exactly are you saying?
like G3 sez the boot is just suposed to sit there and the release comes form the heel
I have seen different boots come out of the pins different when we compared garmont/dynafit/scarpa when garmont was doing funny things with tech fittings
otherwise I think a pin is a pin, I got one RAD FT and one RAD ST heel piece on the same setup cuz thats what dynafit sent me and they pretty much release the same
Full disclosure, i don't own ions so this is a bit of thread jack.
What I'm saying is that on my rads with a dynafit boot of 310mm with heel engaged, the toe pins would open at the equivalent of 7.5 (averaged). add in the total lack of elasticity and i had to ski them locked always. Point being it had nothing to do with cleaning out the sockets or the toe pieces, the spring tension was just totally inadequate (for me).
so you are saying you would pre-release at 7.5 on the heel piece? so do I but I only weigh 160 and none of my dreams ever have me playing Hoji so if I weighed 225lb I would expect to turn up the horizontal DIN like setting way higher than 7.5
IME it was necessary to turn the vertical release (small screw) up one higher than the horizontal release (big screw) on a teck binding to stop pre-release and I understand that is STOP on verts and rads
which is why I think tech bindings with u-springs and no seperate vertical/horizontal release adj suck
^^^^I think he was saying that retension on the toes was similar to an alpine toe piece set to 7.5. I did not find this to be the case with radicals. I did have this problem with some earlier Dynafits. I could prerelease at the toe on a certain kind of hard turn. And yes, I'm certain the prerelease was not cause by ice in the socket or under the springs.
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whatever kind of retention he, me you experienced unless you can duplicate it from brand to brand & binding to binding its not really anywhere near DIN ... its anecdotal
Yeah, this is why I don't use the ft 12s anymore. Had a hematoma for about 8 weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickel
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Yep. Same here.Quote:
Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!
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Speaking of the G3 Ion. I have never had an issue with pre-release.
RightQuote:
Originally Posted by cmcrawfo
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https://www.wildsnow.com/16117/g3-io...tech-bindings/
https://www.wildsnow.com/18803/compa...er-g3-dynafit/
I think one of the above is just a revamped test but there is probably way more than you will ever need to know about tech toes and there is nothing about more clicks of the toe lever affecting release values, if you think it does, I would re-read the^^ whole artical and Lou's FAQ's several times and think about what he wrote
G3 actualy DOES have some of the highest spring values in Tech toe pieces, higher than Dynafit, suprisingly the 4 springs in an ION 12 toe piece test higher than 6 springs in a Kingpin toe piece even tho 6 looks sexier !
And the ION 12 has significantly higher spring presssure than the ION 10
but then are you more likeley to come out because the heel twisted out of the heel pins and you levered out of the toe pins OR because the toe pins released sideways?
the IONs also both have a LOT of snow clearance under the springs so how much of a happy coincidental side benefit is that in toe retention?
In any case an important factor in the decision to buy ION 12 might be ... how fat you are?
Those were both excellent finds xxxer. Cheers.
Anyone able to provide impressions about whether the forward pressure on the ion is enough to eliminate the vague tail of traditional tech? This was a big selling point for me for kingpin when I got them and it delivered on that. Durability means I'm shopping again though and tecton hasn't really been out long enough to tell if it's sorted or not.
I would be willing to tolerate vague heel on a pow rig but not a spring ski.