The solution is clear. Arm the teachers with AK47s! ;)
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The solution is clear. Arm the teachers with AK47s! ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo
But he would have used up clip to bring you down so the small people could attack after your gaint frame hits the ground and the dust blinds the fucker.
funny nobody knows his name if it was so well covered. and he was not ex-military. he was a holocaust survivor
Different guy, Jon. Yes, he ALSO barricaded his door (not with his body) and told his students to flee through the window, but so did several other people, including the Lady professor who was killed.
Two different guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon gaper
[QUOTE=strawjack;1240622]he walked into the classroom with everyone in front of him and his back to the door w/ two guns...you don't have a chance. [QUOTE]
THat scenario actually has much to do with how the door is framed, wether is it recessed in the door sill...
Certain doors provide dead angles (Angles not likelly to be cleared by the assailant) by design.
Standing on his weak side dead angle waiting to feed him an impact weapon could be very effective.
Not saying I would have done it... But again, Environmental awareness, and using that env (A dead end, closed area, which the gunman would have seen as HIS advantage) to tactical advantage can be VERY important in situations such as these.
I just didn't want to mispell it. But to satisfy you, chief I'll venture Liebrescu or something like that, I think. Holocaust survivor, it was initially rumored he had experience in the Israeli Defense Forces. Amazing life story, tragic he was killed by such a piece of garbage.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon gaper
I agree, no sense bringing a knife to a gun fightQuote:
Originally Posted by Trackhead
I would think Obernhard would have sprayed some senseless babble that would have made the guy freak out and wonder what it means possibly giving someone enough time to disarm him. Moral is that obernhard is the hero here.
Having looked down the wrong end of a gun a few time, I'd say you're dealing with it in the completely wrong way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian Sanders
You could attack them and try to physically disarm them or shoot them back or try a variety of those John Wayne moves with which we're all so heavily indoctrinated after which your dick will balloon and you'll get the girl and she'll ride you off into the sunset.
What matters is living, nothing else.
The VTech situation was different than the ones I encountered in my days of hitchhiking and train hopping. In my cases, it was a one on one confrontation in which either money or some control issue was at stake.
With that in mind, I always changed the dynamic of the situation by giving them what they wanted and in the case of the sawed off shotgun psycho, letting him know that there was nothing to prove and nothing to gain. And if you have the balls, make jokes. That's what worked for me. Plus, they never got any money off me either.
Or just recruit college campus guards from ski forums?Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo
Anyone want to bet the level of expertise professed here is about the same as you'd have got from asking the same question at Virginia Tech last week?
Guarantee Cho Seung-Hui would probably have been one of the most Xtreme-experts. Fucker would have been rambling on about muzzle velocities, kill rates, hollow points, dead angles, combat experience.......
Motive does, to some degree, dictate what one should do...
Roberries are often best dealt with with compliance, as well as exit strategy... ie, Guy with steel asks for your wallet. You throw it ten feet to your left and use the distance he gives you to paddle out.
However, there are instances (Have been involved in a more than one) where compliance will only result in a quicker death.
It's important to read the situation correctly and act is accordance with what you are dealt.
I've closed a robbery in it's tracks by asking the guy who squared to me if he had any rolling papers... Whatever works... Works!
And there you go. I got the guy wasted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandogge
I think the best way to get away from all this violence is if we are all designated our own bullet-proof Pope-mobile. With all the handicap ramps we would be able to get anywhere we would just have to change the seating structure in classes.
The only other solution is to let people arm themselves. I agree arming people at school sounds pretty rediculous but what else are you going to do? The police aren't going to get to you in time to help you -- for the most part police are there to pick up the pieces after something happens and investigate. Not that they wouldn't want to stop something like this dead in its tracks but it's just not feasable for them to be everywhere at the same time. And let's be clear... normal security guards are often times chumps, they are scared shitless in alot of situations. I've been chased by 50 (conservative estimate -- absolutely no exageration) or so people and got a boot party from about 10 of them. The security guard didn't even attempt to help by firing a shot in the air etc. He was just frozen with fear.
Umm... hey retard - an easily armed student was the PROBLEM in this situation, not the solution.
Maybe had the motherfucker NOT been able to get a gun as easily as signing his name this wouldn't have happened. Spare me the "criminals get guns anyway" bullshit - this dude had no connections, and neither do thousands of other killers who use guns - they buy them "LEGALLY."
Everyone had guns at the OK Corral too - guess what: the good guys got killed... and they knew how to fire a weapon.
Get a clue tipster -- sorry you grew up in the church chior as a momma's boy but it isn't hard to get a gun illegally. And thanks for the retard comment it really hits home coming from a person who works for the exploit everything media. Maybe you should think about getting a job in a feild where you actually offer society something other than slanted lies or distortion at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
And as for an armed killer being the problem that might be true but if other people were armed he would have been able to kill significantly less people which I don't see as a problem. Think of the campus killing on the law campus where they took care of the gunman quite a bit faster -- he was only able to kill 6 people.
Easy, if I recall there was a shooting at the Appalachian Law School in Virginia in 2002 where two armed students ran to their cars to get their firearms and cornered the suspect while the other students tackled the gunman to the ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
I'm typically anti-gun, but this is a hard argument to ignore. While I don't think every student on campus should be required to be armed. I think a CCW permit should be legal on campuses or at least for their to be an initiative for professors to obtain CCWs.
Crash3000 and Brian, why do you think it is so easy to get an illegal gun? I can say for a fact, that minority of reg. illegal handguns (ie. non automatic) are not illegally imported/smuggled to USA. Most are stolen from your average Joe's apartment... and guess what, when it is easy to acquire a gun, it also makes it easier for criminals, as the "gun-pool" is so large. Even a simple law, like mandating triggerlocks or locked gun-cabinets for all those that own guns, would cut down severely the available "gun-pool" and coupled with a bit more effective control when selling guns (ie. a bit more red tape and hassle, that would most likely deter you're average Joe for getting a gun, jsut 'cause he can) would yet again lessen the "pool".
Of course, none of you guys want that, as it's dropping a big pile of shit on your rights... But still you're happy to let FBI/CIA and the government to wiretap your phones and monitor your emails and god knows what sans a permit.
A guy walks into a school and shoots 32 people dead and the solution is to give more people guns.
You have no idea how strange that sentiment appears to the average European.
Hemas - you forget to mention fair trials, habeas corpus and torture are also rights that have gone down the shitter.
Strange that the average NRAista doesn't shout that loud about these or use his second amendment rights to defend them?
I agree, allowing students to carry concealed weapons will prevent a complete lunatic from shooting 30+ people at a time. We seem to have these type of horrific tragedies every 5-10 years in this country.
In it's place, we'll substitute thousands of students killed, one at a time, because a jilted lover, or angry drunk, or kid with suicidal impulse had a gun at hand. I struggle to understand how anyone that supports this idea can really believe that it will reduce the death toll. Sure, every blue moon, a bad guy will get what's coming to him. The rest of the time, another young person with their whole life ahead of htem will have it ended suddenly. It's not only Europeans that are baffled by this kind of "logic".
I'm sure. Of course, for us the idea that guns be quite rare and hunting be an almost exclusively patrician "sport" is equally alien.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo
Hemas- exactly how would a trigger lock serve to prevent a gun from entering the black market?
For a wide variety of reasons gun control ideas that are predicated on reducing or eliminating some kind of gun are non-starters here.
Cause I actually live in the US and know it to be a fact. For instance, I know that I could call people I know and have an illegal firearm in my hands within a coupld hours.Quote:
Originally Posted by hemas
I actually don't personally own a gun or want one but am happy the neighbor has the right to blow an intruders head off if he feels so inclined -- that way next week their not heading to my house. And I could really care less if the governments taps my phone or monitors my email. I don't have anything to hide -- any rational person with nothing to hide would admit they don't have anything to hide. This "intrusion" only hurts criminals and has prevented at least on terrorist attack (conservatively) so I'm all for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by hemas
I mean seriously... my emails and telephone conversations are pretty boring. I would feel sorry for anybody that got assigned the job to monitor me after some sort of flagging.
try youtube - I am sure there is a video on How to grab a gun away.
...the self professed "village idiot" speaks and jumps to unfounded conclusions based on social stereotypes.Quote:
Originally Posted by hemas
I don't own a firearm, and do believe that guns should be required to have trigger locks.
Anyways, lets say we go to the absolute extreme of revoking the 2nd Amendment entirely. The gun pool you have spoken of does shrink, shrinks to the collection of illegal firearms. Can you explain Switzerland's gun situation?
the flaw in your "logic" here is that CCW holders comit crimes at rates that are not even really comprable to your average citizen.Quote:
Originally Posted by mday
Here you go:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...rab+a+gun+away
And here is what to do in a zombie attack (pretty funny):
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...rab+a+gun+away
But we're not european... American's think alot of things the european people do are a little strange and (possibly wrongly) don't think they work as good. But... your placing your ideals and what you have been taught on us which we all know doesn't work. Every society has it's quirks and something that works well in one society will not necessarily work well for another.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo
I mean think of Iraq... I naively thought the Iraqi people would be happy that they were not under Sadam's rule and work together. While I believe they are happier now they certainly have not intentions of working together which in the end will turn out much worse for them than if they were just stuck with Sadam.
Personally I'm not worried about fair trials, habeus corpus, and torture for people, at least at the higher levels, involved in terrorism. I would have no problem being employed as the executioner down at Guantanamo. I could be judge, jury, and executioner and sleep well every night. I'm not concerned with the rights of people who, in general, want to wipe me off the face of this earth so that they can spread their form of Islam.Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWbrit
I remember at the time of the Ecole Polytechnique shooting (14 dead) my mom (who worked there, but was out of the building at the time) was puzzled as to how nobody tried to stop the guy. Strangely enough, I don't recall my dad saying anything similar (he's a prof there, and I think he might have been in the building at the time).Quote:
Originally Posted by DougW
When I read through the detailed story of what happened on wiki a few days ago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89c...ique_massacre: note: this is a detailed account so it's chilling to say the least) it does seem like someone could have maybe stopped him (he went through 3 different floors and his gun failed to fire at one point, so he needed to reload). However, I do realize that thinking someone could have stopped him is clouded by the fact that I'm looking at the story as an outsider, after it happened, so I have all the details at my disposal.
The reality is, when crazy events like this happen, I can assume the people that are caught in the crossfire have no details about what is going on other than the fact there's a guy unloading a gun. They don't know his full intentions, how many rounds he has left, where he's headed next etc... I can also imagine that actions and responses are clouded by fear and the natural human response is to flee...
Regular civilians have no training to deal with events like these or to "stop a gunman"
That's where police training comes in to enable cops to deal with gunmen. Aside from the fact they are armed and where protection, cops are trained to deal with the stress and evaluate the details of the situation properly. They are also highly trained in the use of their weapons.
It's very disturbing to me that many people seem to think that arming civilians is the answer to prevent this kind of event. It goes to show the cultural gap in terms of guns is huge between Canada and the US, because I don't recall many people thinking that if others were armed, the massacre at Poly could have been prevented. I walked passed the memorial of the 14 women everyday for over 2 years, but I never once thought that if others were armed, they would still be alive...
stunning, if not predictable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crass3000
Crass - What level of proof or evidence would you require to execute someone?
That is absurd. EVERYONE deserves fair trials. Your suggestion basically makes any accused terrorist a convicted terrorist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crass3000
please stop. you're killing me with the good little dumbass american racist schtick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crass3000
darker skin than his.Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWbrit
This message is hidden because spook is on your ignore list.
He never really has anything to add anyway.
He never has anything rational to say except that he hates the US and all it's systems. He's sooo intellegent cause you knows what systems are. Spook, I was into hardcore anarchist punk (friends that squatted, etc -- not the bubble-gum bullshit) for 10 years and still listen to it 10 years after that -- your an idiot if you think I have no grasp on systems. But you wouldn't realize that because your an arrogant, pompous idiot.
You don't really believe that if you dramatically increase the number of permit holders that they group will continue to behave in an above average manner do you? I'm no expert on how they're currently selected, but I would have to think that a whole bunch of screening takes place. If the permit holders are extended to include basically any kid on campus that wants to carry a gun, you're not going to see much separation in the crime statistics between permit holders and average citizens.Quote:
Originally Posted by lemon boy
I agree. This subject was on a radio show I was listening to a couple days back and one of the callers said "Someone should have rushed him. He can't shoot everyone, after all." Well, maybe, but the point is you don't want him to shoot you. Sorry, but most people are going to consider their own safety first and foremost. You're chances of living are better by seeking some kind of cover or getting the out of there (if possible) then by rushing the guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster Highmen
Not much... I guess I'm at the point where they get the same fair treatment they give us. If a few innocents are taken out that is unfortunate but war isn't about being PC. Being PC is why countries loose wars.Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWbrit
Please read above... I guess you'll have to think I'm an idiot -- plenty of people around here do. But I am not an apoligist for my beliefs. I wish there was a better way to sort out innocent from the real bad guys but this is war and war has never been as pretty and PC as it is today. People from generations ago would look at what we do and how we whine about rights for our enemies and wonder if we are nuts. We essentially (politicians and media)beat ourselves in most recent wars. It's not our military's inability if given proper resources.Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtybryan
Absent cover, closing the distance may be better cover.Quote:
Originally Posted by The AD