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I have a question for the people blaming this crazy winter on global warming..
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ure_Record.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...arming_Map.jpg
the above images indicate that, at best, temperatures in the northeast are 1ºC warmer than they were since the period between 1940 and 1980.
how do you use global warming explain the 10-20º above normal temperatures we've been experiencing? I'll be glad to give you 1 or 2º.. but what about the rest?
Remember, that one degree celsius is a climatic average, (Mean means average....) duh... not based on the temperature fluctuation within a period of say, 6 months. So when you figure in the warmer temps of this year the average will most likely go up, but not up 10 degrees.
Your post confused the heck outta me.
Kicked out of the pacNW? :confused:
Why did I forget that we are a blip??Quote:
Originally Posted by extreeski
And where do you get the data for your "without a doubt" statement? How can you possibly say that??? Thats a significant claim--Id just like to hear the rationalization behind that.
No arguements from me. Id just remind you to re-read my previous post about the true definition of global wamring because I sense that you're still not getting it.Quote:
Originally Posted by extreeski
Wanna buy a bridge? My market research identifies you as an ideal target market. I'll give you a HELL of a deal, and you get to pick the bridge.Quote:
Originally Posted by shmoesmith
There is no way to absolutely prove the theory of evolution, either. And it is true that even without human input, temperatures might be rising due to the natural cycles. But the rate and amount that temperatures have increased over the last century are out of whack with the historical fluxuations. We are getting warmer, faster, than any other period in history, at least as far as we can tell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Natedogg
Here's what Mt. Snow looked like yesterday:
25 square mile chunk of glacier falls into ocean, glaciers melting in greenland, certain glaciers disappearing in yellowstone due recession of the icepack... the list goes on and on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rontele
but temperature anomalies happen with or without global warming... I can be persuaded to believe that global warming caused it to be 72º instead of 71º or even 70º in new york city yesterday - but it doesn't make sense to me that global warming caused it not to be 40º..Quote:
Originally Posted by extreeski
Quote:
Originally Posted by extreeski
I would agree with this post. Which also makes the case that the usability of those figrues are close to nothing. They are so broad that they really dont say much. I could make one that comes out to show a cooling trend if I had hours to manipulate and find anomalies in data sets. I mean, come on, what is the relavance between mean temps of a 10-year period between 95 and 04 and a 41-year "norm" between 40 and 80?? What kind of arbitrary crap is that? Maybe the author had good reason, but its not evident from those figures.
Besides, I dont want to digress from my main point--how the hell could you possibly determine that if humans never existed then the Earth would not be warming right now at this rate? Im playing devils advocate here to an extent, but Im trying to get the point across that people who say "human-induced climate change is no longer a theory--its fact" do not have a leg to stand on.
Damn am I glad I didnt go. Ugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plakespear
Plakes, youre right, but youre also comparing apples to oranges. Evolution is not exactly the convoluted entire-earth system that climate is. But youre right.
Youre wrong about "out of whack with historical fluctuations." Rapid climate change experts (paleoclimatologists) have determined that a change from glacial to interglacial conditions (and vice versa) has occurred in less than 30 years--possibly as short as 10 years. Its happened many times in the past 2 million years. At least thats what it looks like from the paleoclimate record...
This is exactly what Im talking about. People read or hear shit on the tv, radio, climate-evangelism, etc and this is the trash that gets puked back up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blurreds_left_nut
1. Icebergs the size of states are calved from glaciers each year. Its a process that happens whether the climate is warming or cooling.
2. Glaciers melt whether the climate is warming or cooling.
3. There are no glaciers in Yellowstone.
I heard a discussion today talking about essentially the same thing you speak about here. How I understand it is what global warming does is alter the baseline temp from which changes occur. Then, all these cyclical weather phenomenons(ninos/ninas/whatever) happen on top of that, and we have this crazy weather.Quote:
Originally Posted by steve
Its like office space. Sure, stealing .03 cents from every transaction isnt a big deal, until you have a million transactions. Then you are in trouble.
It takes enough energy for me to keep my bedroom a few degrees warmer at night. I cant even imagine what it takes to make the earth a few degrees warmer....
Well since we're not out skeeeein start ejumucatin yoselves:
http://www.easternuswx.com/bb/index.php?showforum=36
With regard to whether the current temperature/precip schemes that we have been experiencing this winter are due to El Nino or global warming, it is not an either-or thing. These phenomena are connected to one another, according to recent evidence that El Nino potency (good word, Rontele) is controlled, to a degree, by the global warming phenomenon as a whole. It's not really a black-and-white thing.
As far as whether or not global warming exists, there IS no argument. The ten hottest years ever measured have all occurred within the past 14 years, and 2005 was the hottest year on record, ever. We are well on our way off the scale relative to the normal warming cycles that have occurred during the last few hundred thousand years (e.g., Lonnie Thompson et al.'s ice core records, etc.)
There is no argument. Not among scientists, anyway. Of hundreds of peer-reviewed publications on the topic, the number of dissenting views about the existance of global warming--and its direct influence by human practices--is zero (0). However, of several hundred articles about global warming in the popular media, 53% leave the reader with the impression that we don't know what the cause is or whether it even exists. Our general media has been fogging the signal. This is a pity.
Our General media is owned by big corporations and the government. They say what the corporations want them to say.
whenthefuckeva! Hurry up, plane tix from BOS to SEA are ~$220.Quote:
Originally Posted by Natedogg
There was a good story on this on NPR today (yeah I know liberal propaganda).Quote:
Originally Posted by Rontele
According to the climatologist on there historically NE weather is more tied to the NAO (North Atlantic Oscillation) and arctic to a lesser degree. Unfortunately NAO, the Artic and El Nino have by chance all coalesced this year so that El N really does have more of an effect on the East actually all the way into Europe.
The only system they claimed that had a direct effect from Global weirding was the Arctic - ice pack is down.
He also claimed things could get out of phase and we'll be cooler again. But global temps provide a baseline that makes synchronization like this just a little bit warmer each time it happens.
Interesting theory I thought - makes some sense.
Jeeze, those guys look like they're more interested in arguing politics.Quote:
Originally Posted by gravitylover
Of course, it is the interweb ya know. There is some really good info in there if you read between the shit though. There are more pro mets and researchers that hang out there than any other weather forum around and the good info you can pick up outweighs the garbage many times over.
utah sure has been nice:fmicon:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blurreds_left_nut
Ahhhhhh....Calm down my left nut... you are causing a disturbance in the sac.
I was thinking about what you said and you actually hit it right on the head. global warming is more about political posturing than science.Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Range Lobster
There have been periods of global warming much more intense than what we're seeing now. The thing about it is we haven't been around to record it. There is plenty of evidence to prove this out and some of it is beginning to be looked at more seriously. What makes it tough to swallow is that we were in a relatively cooler period from the '40's through to the mid 90's. As we go into a period of less intense solar cycles the transition back to cooler will take effect (I think) but the time lag could be on the order of another year or two. We'll see.
Bottom line though is that this winter SUCKS for us on the EC so far.
Best weather info I've found. Some hopefull things for all y'all to. I would be absolutely fucking nuts if I was up there. ++vibes sent.
http://madriverglenweather.blogspot.com/
This ones good too.
http://www.madriverglen.com/?Page=weatherx.php#fox
So do you expect scientists to use global warming as a springboard issue to achieve political power?Quote:
Originally Posted by gravitylover
Is science conspiring to bring down the GOP?
Its the scientists doing the political posturing, right? Not the politicians? Really?
Interesting conclusion. I don't see it.
I mostly agree with you, but if youre saying that human practices are THE reason for the warming climate, I think youre a bit askew. There is no doubt that scientists do not know what the impact of X ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere has.Quote:
Originally Posted by BenWA
Oh yeah, and what do you mean by "ever"? Certainly not in geologic time. So you are effectively limiting yourself to data collected reliably by humans--which might give you 100-150 years. Proxy data is just that--proxy (although I think it to be purdy derned accurate).
One further point to consider... The Little Ice Age ended (presumably) before all of this anthropogenic warming took place. Wouldnt it make sense that the climate is warming after a small cooldown? Its also debateable that the industrial revolution actually caused the end of the LIA... It is VERY reasonable to think that the natural climate would have been warming right now without human influence.
Regardless, lets hope that Wallys theory of the global conveyor is true: all this warming--be it anthropogenic or otherwise--will lead to an influx of fresh water at the poles, causing a slowdown in the transport of heat towards the poles, and ultimately colder weather here in NE. Lets also hope that by then we dont have to rely on #2 or gas to heat our homes. :eek:
As I once heard after taking a leak outside in Antarctica:
Seasoned guy: Man, sometimes its tough getting a two-inch peter out of six inches of clothes.
Newbie: Hey buddy, I dunno about you, but my peter aint two inches.
Seasoned guy: Youve obviously never been really fucking cold.
It's the politicians using misinterpreted/poorly interpreted science to further their agenda. What's their agenda? Self promotion! Then the media has no choice but to run with it. All I hear anymore is "I love global warming!" and it's really getting old.Quote:
Originally Posted by uglymoney
There are so many influences on the weather we experience (volcanism, solar influences, etc) that it's hard to say whether or not it is human induced.
2 drops!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Natedogg
We feel for ya...it's hasn't been a banner year in Tahoe either......
Of course the greenhouse effect is a figment concocted by us
left wingers...eh? :rolleyes: