I don't know these guys, never skied on their skis, don't hate them or their product. However I do know that there's more to this than you guys think. Believe what you want, I believe what I was told.Quote:
Originally Posted by lph
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I don't know these guys, never skied on their skis, don't hate them or their product. However I do know that there's more to this than you guys think. Believe what you want, I believe what I was told.Quote:
Originally Posted by lph
Let me give you some advice: don't drink the koolaid if you aren't 100% sure what's in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman
I have no idea what's in Koolaid.
No one is interested in your divisive bullshit. Please stop.
Ice I'm glad you believe what one person tells you is true, no matter how many people tell you it's not. nothing like keeping blinders on..............:nonono2:Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman
I dunno, he seemed pretty believable. I think I hear the cavalry coming in the distance anyway.
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Originally Posted by iceman
ok im sold, fuck moment....FUCK THEM IN THEIR STUPID ASSES:rolleyes:
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Originally Posted by iceman
wow.:eek:
I tried to order some moment skis last month and they wouldn't take anything but a mailed cash payment. When I called to see if they got it, they reported me to a credit agency, raped my dog and zIPPY showed up at my door, kicked me in the nuts and poured acid in my eyes.
Last thing I heard was zippy running down my driveway screaming "slouch snowboards RULZOR fucktard!!!!"
Watch out for those moment ski guys.
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
Zip: you guys going to have any demos mounted up for folks to try out this fall?
I've had the pleasure of seeing some Moments in action, and Zippy has most definitely not been babying the skis and they seem to be damn solid. Good enough for me...plus square tips are not the SuK.
Iceman is just pissy because he's old and lives in Maryland.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zIPPY
holy shit WTF happened in this thread?!
I'm not sure where to begin, but defiinitely feel like I need to jump in here.
As zIPPY notes below (and as many of you here know), Slouch Snowboards was PMGear's manufacturer for our first year (coming up on 2 seasons ago). And it has been well documented in the past, that this relationship didn't go very well for a variety of reasons. And that's fine...sometimes shit just doesn't work out. It wasn't a win-win situation for Slouch nor for us, and quite honestly our relationship with Slouch didn't end on the best of terms.
However, all you can hope for in the end is that you learn something from it. For us, we realized that we needed to get our own pressess and manufacturing capabilities up and running ourselves. Hopefully Slouch learned something from it as well. As for us, fortunately, things have worked out enough for us that finally, this year, we have our own press and shop, er garage :D, and can now do our own thing. Stoked about that.
Now Moment Skis is not Slouch. There may be a relationship somewhere there as noted by zIPPY below. And yeah, that's fine. This industry is so symbiotic that its nearly impossible for one company to get started up as a completely 100% independent entity w/o relying on some other established company for help along the line somewhere.
And yup as Zippy mentioned, we did change our original core design. We changed it because they were not made to our specs and they were breaking down during testing. So we had to change them. There was no choice. This dilemma was actually documented in this article on powdermag.com from nearly 2 years ago now:
http://www.powdermag.com/Columns/keane_120804/
That's really all the details I know about that situation as I'm not really involved on the manufacturing end of things. Maybe Splat or some others on our end can chime in who were more hands-on during this time period.
So anyway, I've obviously skied with zIPPY a bunch at Kirkwood and the Moment prototypes that I've seen looked sick. I never got the chance to ski them though. Hopefully I'll be able to though someday. And yeah fuck it, I guess we are competitors now as 2 start-up ski companies trying to make a go of it...but that's cool. Healthy competition is good for us as companies because it will push each of us to improve our shit and obviously its good for potential customers as well as they'll have more choices of skis that will be improving year over year. And that's a good thing no?
edit: just realized I sound like Martha-fucking-Stewart with that last line :nonono2:
double edit: yes, Brooks avatar rules it. But so does Brooks so what can you expect?
Just passing through to say that Brooks avatar crushes it.
shoe- Martha doesn't sound like that, you sounded like richard simmons.
Kumbayah?
not quite upbeat enough for sweatin to the oldies IVQuote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
I am here to post in this important thread and to report that Iceman has promised to take all his meds from now on.
Moment Skis are coming? Vell you must be qvite proud of yourselves!
It's as satisfying to me as coming is. You know as having sex vith a voman coming.
So can you believe how much I am in heaven? I'm like uh, getting ze feeling of coming in ze gym, I'm getting ze feeling of coming at home, I'm getting ze feeling of coming backstage vhen I pump up, vhen I pose up in front of 5000 people I get ze same feeling...
So I'm coming day und night!!!
Alright, alright, why doesn't everyone just hug it out??Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces
i am not hugging anyone in this circus...all you people smell.
except kush...I'll hug kush.
You can only hug Kush and remain straight if you do it off of hospital air. In fartbags. And hell, on Moment skis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces
shit, i can't now...Kush moved away :(
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Originally Posted by Arnold Schwarzenegger
fucking choice.
I'd like to try some commi's. they look interesting.
What about the reach around?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces
I am really surprised and upset to hear this! I mean, afterall we shared a piece of banana cream pie last night! :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces
What would Freud have to say about that?Quote:
Originally Posted by lph
Well crap, if lph is upset, guess I should be too, I mean afterall, tyrone, we spent 6 hours in spandex together in wine country on Sunday. :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by lph
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Originally Posted by skimoore
Forget Freud....what would Richard Simmons say?
ok I'm bored...quick google of Richard Simmons quotes:Quote:
Originally Posted by irul&ublo
"I might as well be gay. And not just because I love rhinestones and Barbara Streisand. But because I'm a sensitive person who is supportive of gay people the same way I'm sensitive to grossly obese people and ugly people."
I thought it was quite fitting to these shenanigans.
On that note, Moment skis rule. Richard Simmons fully endorses them, as they have a fabulous shape and he loves fat sticks.
Nothing. I meant it literally. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by irul&ublo
Dooood, you've gotta try the banana cream pie over at the Breakaway/Chris'. Sooooo gooooood.Quote:
Originally Posted by lph
Quote:
Originally Posted by zIPPY
Got a call on this and thought I'd better check in. The one day I was out and away from the board....
First of all, iceman is stating his conjecture based on a synopsis of information he got from me. We were talking while I was at the OR in SLC a couple weeks ago. He asked me what happened when he didn't get his skis until April of last year after they were promised in November 04. I gave him the lowdown on Slouch totally hosing PM Gear and mentioned that Slouch was now operating in conjunction with Moment. I know you’re intentions are good, ice. Don't want to start a pissing match, so I'll address what's been said so far, the reactions, and attempt to be chill for the sake of not insulting any friendships with KW mags who are friends with, zIPPY, whom I don't believe I've ever met.
As anyone who's been around for a while and who ordered a pair of Bros the first year knows, Slouch Snowboards, run by Ben Harmon, had no clue how to make a core for skis and put snowboard cores in the first Bros, which failed miserably. TeleRob and I then had to redesign the cores during September 04 on multiple trips to Mt. Hood, staying at Natty Dread's house. Harmon said he'd do all the protos for the redesign for free, since he had been less than forthcoming when he said he knew everything about making skis and we ended up in Argentina with skis that broke down almost immediately. That was only the first of many failures to keep his promises to PM Gear that spewed forth from Harmon's lips.
The next thing that occurred was Harmon promised PM Gear 100 pair of skis in November. It was almost the following summer when we, and many of the maggots who had preordered, got skis. Iceman was in that group. It caused some hard feelings around here and almost caused PM Gear to go under in its infancy. But the brotherhood was strong and faithful and waited. The whole affair did stretch some friendships that had to be repaired. While Harmon was promising us skis, he was really making snowboards. A question - while the Bros sat idle and maggots waited, was Casey was making his Moment prototypes in the Slouch factory? It seems I saw some of those skis when I stopped by to tune Harmon up to make the Bros.
If Harmon’s claim that he knew everything there is to know about making skis meant putting snowboard cores in skis, one would have to presume that's what he and Casey did for Moment skis - snowboard cores - until Rob and I handed Harmon the design for a real ski core. That design was the intellectual property of PM Gear. This has all been stated in court documents that led to a $40,000 arbitration award PM Gear won against Slouch (which they are appealing). One technology PM Gear did possess was the ability to know how a core should be designed.
I don't know zIPPY, but he has some facts wrong in his post. Yes, we wanted a design change before the Bros were ever started. Because Harmon was putting snowboard cores in the skis. I know it might be a bit much to ask of some guy who says he's the God of ski engineering to please take the snowboard core so out of the ski so the maggots can get skis that work properly, but that’s what was done. There were no skis pressed beyond initial prototypes that sucked when we demanded the skis be made correctly. And there was certainly not 100 pair already pressed, as zIPPY states. That's pure bullshit. But I'm sure zIPPY is getting his info from Harmon, who I am convinced does not know how to tell the truth. I'm really looking forward to putting Harmon on the witness stand if their appeal is granted. There's a long line of maggots who were present at the Slouch factory throughout our fight with Slouch to get the skis made, from TeleRob, to Idris, to Shoelaces, to 2P, and others. It would be a pleasure to expose Harmon’s deceitful business practices when I get him on the stand. I really wish him the best of luck. He’ll need it, given the pile of evidence we already presented to an arbitrator who ruled in our favor to the max award allowed in Nevada.
I do, however, believe zIPPY is a little more cozy with Slouch and Harmon that he cares to admit, given his comment in the Mammoth mini thread, which I let slide, but which merits mention now that this whole issue has come up and he said in his post above
“I never wanted to talk shit on here about Bro skis since Ron is a fellow Kwood crew member, but i might as well be honest. Slouch shares a shop with Moment.”
It would seem he wanted to get a little jab in when he made the following comment:
Thats soooo crazy, I saw a picture of that guys factory in Powder Magazine, where was that factory in that picture? Those skis look really original, like 125 at tip or something, are those powder skis? Anyways seem cool and i am glad to see that Bro company is keeping it innovative!!!
Did someone steal zIPPY’s login and post that? The story was about the issues we dealt with at the Focus factory in Quebec, but had a photo of me at the Slouch factory in Reno. Apparently, this upset zIPPY. I don’t know, but it seems he’d like to talk some shit about the Bros, maybe pick a fight, and stand up for Harmon. But why that and then him saying here his intentions are honorable? I won’t presume to understand his intentions, just pointing out that saying one thing and then demonstrating otherwise is just a little weird. I got no beef with anyone coming here to promote their product. But if zIPPY and Casey are one and the same as Slouch, whether they claim to be or not, then iceman’s comments, which he inferred from what I told him, are not as far out there as some of the KW crew seems to think.
If I have offended some of the KW guys due to their friendship with zIPPY, my apologies. But I felt compelled to say something, since iceman was accused of being off his rocker, which although that might be true most of the time, is not necessarily the case in this instance.
As for us being in competition with Moment or any other independent ski company – nothing could be further from the truth. Independent ski companies are only in competition with the top three or four big ski companies. If an indie feels they are in competition with other indies, it’s a sign of immaturity and insecurity. This is something I’ve talked about with a number of other indies as we progress toward starting an association of independent ski manufacturers of North Amercia . Together we stand, but with some of the foolish attitudes some companies seem to want to hang onto, feeling they have to rip off other indies or run them out of business, or even something so basic as not wanting to share sources on materials or processes, the indies only hurt themselves and each other. So with that, I’ll wish Moment the best of luck and we’ll see Ben Harmon in court if his appeal manages to fly.
edit: italics
Here here! Viva la Indies!!Quote:
Originally Posted by splat
I feel like I just watched a made-for-TV movie.
I'm going skiing in a week.
As far as Zippy's comments...its the 1ntern3T...how many TR's have I done in a serious tone....ummm....none. :) Yes, I think he found the picture odd mainly because it was a little deceiving. And the sarcasm on the dimensions on the Bro's, I'll let him comment on that.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure they just use the presses at Slouch. I know for fact that Zippy has spent time engineering his own boards/protos. Hell, he even made a pair of the Reno's for his girlfriend, start to finish by his own hands...he was pretty proud of that. Custom bases, custom graphics, custom core, etc. Also, I was supposed to have a pair of Commis but they weren't perfect and I know that someone on Moment's end were blamed for the error. Furthermore, up until tonight, I've never even heard or met this Harmon guy, which makes me believe that Moment has little affiliation. But that's all I can add, I know nothing more.
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
Next on As the Skier Turns...
BT has a Kirwood pass next season. Will Zippy try to check out the T & A or just dis her because she's on the competitor-who-shall-not-be-named skis?
True heroes of handmade skis: http://www.skibuilders.com/
My favs: http://www.skibuilders.com/gallery/tao.shtml