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Curious: What do you think makes the 138s overkill (any more than a Pontoon, EHP 193, ARG, Spat, etc)?Quote:
Originally Posted by adam
Are you saying you like the ARG topsheet more? I'm the reverse...but, then again, I like stealth solid black or solid white topsheets... :)
i'm still "stuck" on page 24 (count 'em)
I'm stoked about all these new options. When I opened Powder's Buyers Guide I was like :eek: There are so many 100mm+ waist skis. And the more companies that make a Spat-like ski, the more chance I have to own a pair.
Here's an idea: maybe, just maybe, Armada and Stephan had similar ideas rolling around in their head and Stephan's hit the slopes first. The lotus just made it's way to the slopes winter this year. Somehow I think Armada was developing this ski well before the start of '06. It's not like DP figured out cold fusion, and Armada just happened to figure out cold fusion 6 months later. Plus, if Armada can make a lotus and sell it for 2/3 the price, that's innovation.
the arg looks pretty cool. stoked to ride a pair.
but a glass/wood ski for $800 and a wood/carbon ski for $850 are not really in the same ballpark
Hey UPN, I bought some DB Surreals from Mikey last year. Thanks Mikey, those things are great for tours man!Quote:
Originally Posted by upallnight
:yourock:
Not very accurate, but on my bathroom scale, 193 Surreals (around 95 at the waist, very similar dimensions to Explosivs) weight in at just over 8 lbs with TLTs for the pair.
Bossass is right, they are almost too light. They get bounced around a little in wind chop and set up stuff. They are torsionally stiff though. And for yurt trips and longs tours, I can't complain. I've got a couple burlier setups I'd rather take on shorter days.
When I break these, I'll definitely look at some Wailers.
As for the ARG, the more crazy weird shit to choose from, the better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conundrum
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kya
Upallnight-Your not the only one. Take it out and put it on your fridge or something. It makes getting through the rest of the mag easier. And you wont get anything "stuck.":fm:
This is a good assesment. The surreals would make an ideal touring ski. The ones I skied had P12 demos on them and they were still stupid light. For hitting early spring mank in Granite Canyon, however, they are not all that. I guess good for touring in primarily untouched snow. Wind ripples or sun cups, hell no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conundrum
I'm stoked DP is back to wood cores. The skis are still desireably light, durable, and super solid (or so I've heard).
Stephan is awesome too. When I can afford it, I'll own a pair. But right now I'm probably setting up for a bro deal on ARGs, which I think look better than Pontoons.
point taken, but they're using different materials.Quote:
Originally Posted by shmerham
you could definitely argue that as innovation, but to say that they created a 'lotus @ 2/3 the price' would be disingenuous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossass
It's all in the topsheet.
Looking at the lines, Pontoons vs ARGs are a night and day comparison.
I personally think the ARG graphics are ultraschweet.
Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Conundrum
Sounds like the dps and DBs are different animals then, eh? (at least in terms of likely deflection in less-than-perfect snow)
Hey, Kya... I agree that more options=cool for the buyer (though perhaps not for the manufacturer)....but you can have a Spat today for about $300-350, new, which is far less than any of the new crop will sell for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kya
Granted, they're difference skis (however slight), but $300 gets you in the Spat/Spat-like game.
Hell, LaramieSkiBum's thread was up for a while, so they're not that all that hard to find (yet).
While I'm psyched to try the new crop and happy about an order I've placed, I'm still thinking that the original Spat is the best deal out there--getting most of the performance/feel for a fraction of the price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conundrum
Conundrum, glad you're putting them to good use. I was wondering how you were getting on with them. Happy they went to a good home!
Yes, Splat.
By "look" I meant as far as shape and dimensions. Topsheet graphics aren't too important if the ski kills it. Based on the pontoons mixed reviews, I think 138 or ARG will be THE ski for pow this year.
*****And Bros for all else, of course*****;)
I'm thinking the 120s are going to do pretty well, too. I'm betting on it. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by bossass
Topsheet graphics? Nothing a little spraypaint can't fix.
I hope (with this class of ski, at least) that they topsheets are always buried in enough powder that noone ever notices the topsheets.
Jus messin wid ya, ba.Quote:
Originally Posted by bossass
On another note that might be of interest to you, but you prolly already know, the Lotus will have a slightly thicker core under foot this season to better accommodate screws.
Those graphics are do Dave Levin...I'm going to see if he did them.
But you'd have to put your joint down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tmorry326
I honestly don't know if that's an attack on me or on Levin and the JibTech days haha. Either way....hahaha.Quote:
Originally Posted by bossass
And yah, he said it was one of the last projects he did at Armada. so moral of the story topsheet by Dave Levin.
Sweet, see its happened already. But I'm stoked to ride my FFF's this pow season :yourock: Can't wait for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by upallnight
FFFs? way to pull out the trump card!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kya
No attack. Just ribbing. Read what you originally wrote again, out loud. You'll understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tmorry326
Hahaha, do=so.Quote:
Originally Posted by bossass
Yeah, my wife totally surprised me for my 30 B-Day. She did all the ordering herself, and a little help from a ski buddy or two. I had no idea:yourock:Quote:
Originally Posted by upallnight
When we were up in Jackson last March she takes me to the Iggy workshop and............surprise :eek: :eek: :eek:
Despite my bank account's many protests, trigger = pulled on a new pair of Lotus 120s.
Stoked!!! Will give reviews and details around the end of the year.
=keeper!!!!! that is soooo awesome!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kya
you didn't get to try 'em out when you were here last year? we had a pretty decent pow cycle then, i think.
how did she know??
whatta girl!
I think it's great that other companies are pushing the boundaries of traditional ski shaping, but I agree that between DPS and Armada, I'm choosing DPS, especially considering they're $910 v. $800.
That is so romantic it's not even funny. How did you not notice the missing $1000 for that long?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kya
Maybe it's because I'm in the backyard of K2, but what happened to all of the hype of the 'toon being THE ski next year? Is it the ridiculous price tag for a K2 or are clown feet "so yesterday?"
Search.Quote:
Originally Posted by foreal
Upshot appears to be that the tips are too wide and they're made crappily.
Oh yes, I've searched but Hop and few others are the only ones that have ridden these. With all of the other traditional, non-rocker skis, getting this large at the tip, and the other spatesque skis staying the same shape, I thought it might be the best of both worlds. However I do agree that 145-150 would be plenty.
I think the tip's on Pontoons are too wide, but the concept still has me super interested... in terms of the true pintail shape, reverse camber up front, flat the rest of the way through...
Nobody actually is stupid enough to believe that the ARG's will sell for $800 in the stores, do they?!?
thank youQuote:
Originally Posted by BakerBoy
as mentioned we are talking about different skis, but we're talking about different price points too; not a difference of $50. The Armada's will sell for $600 after the first month or two and you'll be able to get a used pair for $400. The DP's on the other hand will always be $900, and a used pair will still be around $700 if you ever see a pair for sale.
good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by shmerham
then again, one could argue the effective cost of the dp is lower when/if they sell it as they'd be able to recover more value than someone selling the ARG. (for the flippers out there...doesn't hold if one is the buy and hold type.)
kinda like leasing a luxury car vs. leasing a ford.
Because everything I do or say relates to powder skiing :DQuote:
Originally Posted by upallnight
Quote:
Originally Posted by skimasterflex
Because I don't go sneaking around her bank account ;) :D
But I would still enjoy trying the ARG, the concept looks really fun.
The ARGs look exactly like what I want!
Two days on spats and I scribled on a napkin at dinner a dual sidecut design very very similar... I think it is incredibly cool that I'll be able to ski what I was dreaming about.
The ARGs 185 and being slightly skinnier make me happier too (plus it should make it weight competative with the fatter longer but carbon wrapped 138)
I'm thinking the ARG just busted the 138s spot as my next buy...
(and I hate the topsheets on ALL of these spats/descendents) and I intend to mount NX21s...
i love the 138 topsheets. just curious...did you have any issue with the length of the spats? is 185 ideal for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit
cool.
spat length is great... could be a touch stiffer for hauling
besides the spats, the rest of my skis are 179 to 183
ETA white topsheets on pow skis dont make sense to me... if you drop a shoe you'll never find it!
oops...i was thinking they were the black ones...the 120 topsheets are my faves. a white topsheet is my 2nd fave; always liked the topsheets on the proto skis i've ridden.Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit
hope often do you lose a shoe, though? an eject happens pretty rarely. white topsheet also retains less snow (signficant on a big ski).
i find that reverse camber skis ski much shorter...so i'm happy on the spats but psyched for the longer length.
i dont lose a shoe often... but often enough that i would like to maximize the chances of finding it since, with the nx21, the setup would be $1400+...
I'm down with the black topsheets. i've never suffered that pad of snow retention with my black gotamas. with my metal spats the retention sucks