Silverton gave me BLUE BALLS !

Board,
Having just skied Silverton for the first time a couple of weeks ago, I can completely understand everything you've said. I felt somewhat dissapointed with my experience as well.
The first thing that I noticed (and granted, yes they are a new/grassroots area, but isn't too much to ask for when you're shelling out the kind of cash they are asking for) was the lack of organization when it came to getting people up on the mountain. When I called to make my reservation, the lady told me to show up at 9:00. I however decided to get up there at 8:15, and it still took me a full hour just to get gear rented and my pass paid. And that didn't even include the safety talk and all that stuff. Then when it came time to get into groups, it was like a giant cluster fuck. I ended up being paired with people that weren't nearly the same caliber of skier that I am, which became very frustrating when you're sitting at the bottom waiting for them. So one suggestion that I have for them is to try and group their clients more efficiently. In my case, I was grouped with an older group of skiers and a kid from sea level. So my group was extremely slow on the hikes. So here is my second suggestion for them: possibly put some sort of stair/railing system going up the ridge in order to speed up the people who aren't used to hiking in that type of environment. There were several occasions where we had to wait for people who had fallen off the trail.
And thirdly is just waiting for them to open up to unguided skiing. I experienced the same blatent farming of turns all day long as well and the same sort of attitude from my guide. I think that they have a lot of potential but they also have a long way to go. Hopefully they can make it through all the BLM shit and really start worrying about the experience.
Just my $.02

Wow, sounds like you had a bad time. Quel drag grande'.

I hope that these grievances were aired first to Aaron or Jen and not only here.

For what it's worth, they are working their butts off. Consider whether you could really do it better.

But, I've had that strangled feeling in a number of guided situations. But I guess I had the good fortune to be in better caliber groups the times I've been there.

I'm not in any position to argue snow stability since I don't have the specific Velocity Basin data, but the point has been made regarding safety issues, lawsuits and the gestation of a new different kind of ski area. As far as skiing the liftline, I suspect that it may be managed with an eye for appearance as well.

Then again, this bottle's been aging for a while and for my nickle, I'm not out there solely for maxing vertical. <<insert Terminator cliche' here>>.

Buster,
Jen was my guide last year and I spoke to her at length about this situation, although I have never spoken to Aaron. The caliber of my group both times was never a problem no member was holding us up it was simply the guides being very very cautious. Although I certainly wanted more vert a comprise I would have happily settled for would have been to actually ski these runs without stopping 7-10 times per run. At least I could have got into a little rhythm and enjoyed what vert I did get.

Wow, 7-10 times? I think my group stopped about 4 times on the backside (Riff/Raff) and maybe 5 or 6 times on the frontside runs.

If you can find the time and tone, write them a constuctive letter about how to do it better. Your complaints are well founded, but sometimes it's a lot harder to really do things better. Take operating systems for example.

I was thinking about a career change anyway. How much does dental school cost?

Lifites are unpaid. Their only perk is that they get exclusive use of the liftline.

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Originally posted by Pinner
Lifites are unpaid. Their only perk is that they get exclusive use of the liftline.

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" well the world needs ditch diggers too ! " ;) btw way Pinner i'd like to hear what your experience at Silverton was ?

Buster I think I will shoot them an email, in a very constructive manner of course.

Having not skiied in a guided situation, how does Silverton (or most other ops) place you into a group? Is it mostly on the "honor" system, or do they actually get to see you ski?

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Originally posted by Pinner
Lifites are unpaid. Their only perk is that they get exclusive use of the liftline.

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If this is true, and I'm assuming it is, they should just let this fact be known and be done with it. Why tell board that he couldn't ski it because of safety when that wasn't the fact.

Someday when I have $107 for a pass I'll hit Silverton, until then, I'll just enjoy the pictures and stoke.

Interesting...heading down there in a month, we'll see how it is. My only guided bc experience thus far has been Berthoud Pass Snowcats (RIP)...it was awesome. They had all the avy packs ready for us, along with breakfast...skied hard all morning starting at 8:30am or so...no turn boundaries...great lunch and repeat in the afternoon. Of course, although I'm not a NJ dentist, neither am I extremo...nor are the folks I was skiing with (everybody except me was from up from sea level).

There were five of us...we had the entire cat w/o planning to. They couldn't sustain the revenue to keep it going. I had a great time, but couldn't justify the $200 for a return trip when my season pass to WP was 15 miles down the road and there's a ton of inbounds stuff that is a lot of fun. The guides were incredible, everything was awesome, they opened the bar at the end of the day...and sometimes that's not enough to keep it running.

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Originally posted by altagirl
Well, I'll let you know what I think after next weekend!

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Please do AG, I'm really interested to find out how your experience goes.

Actually, I'd like to hear some more opinions (Pinner?) about this. Some friends and I were considering hitting Silverton when we're out there in February. I'm not the same caliber skier as many people on here, but I still have certain expectations, especially for that kind of money.

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Originally posted by Arty50

Telepath has been out here in Tahoe the last week or so and he raised some interesting points this weekend while skiing with the Weed crew.

As some of you may know he hails from Europe and generally skis at La Grave and Serre Chevalier (sp?). Anyway, he explained that group skiing out there is very different and is more safety concious. To sum it all up, everyone sticks together and never skis far enough away where they can't help each other out. He was very surprised at how we were all skiing. People were hucking off of stuff and sorta running all over the place. As a result we easily lost track of people. So he raised an interesting question, if we're not keeping track of each other than what's the point in skiing together? Made perfect sense. Sure it slows everyone down, but at the same time if anyone gets hurt (especially considering the fact we're jumping off of stuff) then it pays off.

So now take that philosophy and apply it to Silverton. I'd argue that they're just following a proper group skiing mentality, which is especially important given the increased level of avy danger there.

Edit: What Odin said.

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yup.

Finally got around to reading this thread...

I feel obligated to say that my experience at Silverton was exactly as board described it. Here are some changes I would make:

1) Get loaded onto chairs faster in the morning.
2) Do a single run and then do some reorganization. ie - take the slowest person from each group and put them in a group of their own.
3) Stop farming the runs by cutting a such a narrow boundary line.
4) Let people eat their lunch on the chair and get an extra run if they like.
5) Jen, Aaron, and the guides should have a private meeting every morning with a topo map to discuss what will be skied and by whom.

I am sure there are other constructive suggestions that could be made to enhance the current experience and maintain safety. All expert skiers that are acclimatized to the altitude should expect 6 runs of untracked turns at Silverton. Even with the current BLM issues, I think this could be accomplished to the satisfaction of all.

Wow, what great suggestions. And well said, SheRa. We were both there the same time and had the same experience.
Send your list to the right people down there. If they're smart, you just saved them a lot of money telling them what they would have had to pay a business consultant to tell them. :)

to the people that have been there and have suggestions/frustrations. I really hope you have and will send emails to the Jen and Aaron (put it in writing!) and let them know what you think.
If there is a long term future for Silverton Mountain, i think this will be a very important issue.

I'm already composing an email, which I intend to send today. I think that 2 guides per group with one running as a sweeper would allow for more sustained skiing while still maintaining safety.

Originally posted by Seldom Seen
to the people that have been there and have suggestions/frustrations. I really hope you have and will send emails to the Jen and Aaron (put it in writing!) and let them know what you think.

I second that! Perhaps they will implement some of the changes before I get there in a few weeks...
If I were running a business, I'd want to have this info.
Thanks in advance to all who do this.

To She Ra's list I suggest adding; Guides and staff be up front and frank with clients.

As this thread exposes some rationale to decisions the on hill explanations seemed to be little more than an attempt at a snow job. When knowledge or later events expose this 'untruth' that doesn't do much for keeping lines of communication open. In fact it leads to frustration and venting on a public message board with widespread bad publicity.

While some here know the operators and want all to support them the operators need to realize the onus is on them to let clients know they're listening to their concerns. Pawning off a bullshit story to cover the real rationale doesn't achieve that.

I hit up Silverton the end of Feb last year and experienced some of the same concerns. I was fortunate to have a group of 10 friends (2 groups) that were all experienced skiers/boarders, which can make a big difference.

During that day we did suggest a couple of runs and Garrett our guide went with it (after calling in). I thought this was a great way to handle it, keep in mind we had already taken 2 runs and Garrett was able to assess the strength of riders he was with.

But on the other hand guide #2 (Contracted Boulderite/Extremo Mtn Dude) was the complete opposite. Way too cautious, crunched our turns for farming and even stole some of the best lines.

But the most frustrating thing was when they took us down "Colorado" at the end of the day. It was tracked out and bumped. I am waiting on the cat track at the bottom and thinking that could've been better, and two boarders and a guide come down a completely UNTRACKED "Riff" and proceed to cruise by me with powdered doughnut shit eating grins. Now that truely sucked!!

With all that said I still have to say, that mountain is amazing!
If you can afford it, give it a shot and come to your own conclusion.

Priority one would be to group the skiers accordingly/systematically (SheRa's suggestion).

my $.02

I haven't ever been, but does someone want to send Jen/Aaron (those are the names of the managers, right?) this thread?

I think that would more than anything else show them how widespread and universal these claims are. And if they don't know who the maggots are, describe what this board is and who is on it.

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Originally posted by seldon
I haven't ever been, but does someone want to send Jen/Aaron (those are the names of the managers, right?) this thread?

I think that would more than anything else show them how widespread and universal these claims are. And if they don't know who the maggots are, describe what this board is and who is on it.

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Something tells me they know who we are, dude.

Yea, they know.

I guess I can voice an opinion as I was in Board's group the first day he went.

I'll voice later, gotta get some turns in.

THIS SPACE RESEVERD FOR COMMENT

I went ahead and forwarded this thread to Silverton.

Homer Jay good to see you are still around, you've been quiet latley.

I was there last weekend too. Board is 100% correct in his trip report. The terrain is excellent, the operation is crap. I can get more vertical feet hiking at Berthoud Pass anyday. I thought our guides quote of the day sums it up "Silverton is not a place to go to get a lot of vert". Oh really? Thanks for telling us now.

And btw, we did not stop at all for a lunch break. And our group dynamic was tight. The weakest link in our group was the "intern" that our guide brought with us. He sucked, and left us standing around waiting numerous times on the 1 or 2 runs that he tagged along for.

And for the all people who defended our guide's cautiousness, you have no idea how over the top it was. As Board said, we had to stop on blue-ish type runs at the bottom of the drainouts where we can see the road/pickup spots, and do the 1 at a time BS. I won't go back to Silverton until this operational stuff changes.

Oh well, que sera, sera. Here are a few pictures of the highlights:

http://www.angelfire.com/punk4/eclar...4-2407_IMG.JPG

http://www.angelfire.com/punk4/eclar...4-2409_IMG.JPG

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Originally posted by ex_2_planker
http://www.angelfire.com/punk4/eclar...4-2409_IMG.JPG

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That looks like Bookends at Snowbird yesterday, except with more tracks:D

my silverton experience (January2003) mirrors that of Board's. If you are used to skiing the backcountry and or skiing any advanced ski area - you will be disapponited.
sam (aka Junkster)

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Originally posted by seldon
I haven't ever been, but does someone want to send Jen/Aaron (those are the names of the managers, right?) this thread?

I think that would more than anything else show them how widespread and universal these claims are. And if they don't know who the maggots are, describe what this board is and who is on it.

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Something tells me that when they saw their chairlift chair named
"Powder to the Maggots", they inquired on who we were.
What'd that other chair get named? I forgot..

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Originally posted by Blurred Elevens
Something tells me that when they saw their chairlift chair named
"Powder to the Maggots", they inquired on who we were.
What'd that other chair get named? I forgot..

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I believe on the back of the other chair is 'Change for a Nickle?'

http://www.biglines.com/photos/blpic12954.jpg

I've hit Silverton 6 times in the past few years. I'd have to disagree with the majority of the board about the overall experience. Yes, it does suck skiing with a group and being told where to go, but the overall quality of turns outweighs the negative aspects of the area.

Last week in Jackson we busted our asses lapping Granite with less than ideal snow. I'd imagine the same day at Silverton would have netted more vert with better snow. I'm not saying that I would have rather been in Silverton, but I'd like to point out that the vert and snow are comparable.

On another note: The area does "farm" turns, but the permit with the BLM practically require them to do so. The snow safety platform argues that ski compaction is required to stabilize the majority of the hill. In order to effectively "compact" a slope there cannot be more than a yard between the tracks. So, they are actually required to "farm" turns to follow their own permit guidelines and prove to the BLM that they can control the slopes.

Let us all hope the upcoming EIS results are favorable and they let us loose.

Sounds like it's tough to have it both ways in this country. Backcountry ski resort sounds like an oxymoron, but mad props to Aaron and Jen for giving it a shot. Hopefully it'll work out in the long run.

Please see for Aaron response.
(and try to consider if you could really do a better job)

http://tetongravity.com/forums/showt...&threadid=6030

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Originally posted by Buster Highmen

(and try to consider if you could really do a better job)

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i don't see the point of the thread being that anybody thinks they could do it better. i can't imagine the headache of taking on a task this size. the point is... whether or not it's the kind of experience you'd expect or whether it's worth the money.
huge kudos to aaron for the thorough response.