September 11 and other conspiracy theories

hey Powpig. How is ball treating you this summer. I do have one question for you. Could you please explain how the DNA from the passengers from the flight that hit the Pentagon ended up there? Especially where there is footage of those same passengers boarding the plane not an hour before it hit. What about the FAA control tower tapes from all over the eastern seaboard airports monitoring the situation? What about the cell phone calls from people on board that plane calling loved ones before it crashed. Can you explain that?

I understand you trying to play devils advocate. However, you have to have an unbiased attitude to pull that off. It is certain you do not have an unbiased tude towards this issue. I get the feeling that you are spending your day walking around town telling people that their shoes are untied when they are not. ;)

powpig, I'm a chemical engineer, so I understand a little something about how hot jet fuel burns, and melting points of metal...and I can also spot bullshit conspiracy theories that are intended to deceive idots.

What are your credentials to back up your beliefs? Or are you blindly following the word of others?

Here's how it works:

1. Go to school, get an education
2. Shake your head in a frustrated fashion when you see idiots believing crap like this
3. Call them a fucking idiot

YOU'RE A FUCKING IDIOT!

i believe the conspiracy was that 20 arab terrorists got together to learn to pilot airliners at mach .9 into several buildings. How many of you at least saw the dust cloud? I understand many of you were downtown when it happened and experienced it in a way most people couldn't come close to Imagining. But i've lived on the river towns for the past 12 years and had to see that dust cloud that hung in the air for MONTHS where some buildings should have been. as far as undground explosions, perfectly resonable expenations: ever been around a bunch of buildings when a plane or helicoter goes by? the sound bounces off so many places that you can't tell where the source is. if you were next to a large building, and a large twin engine plane with its engines at full were coming in, the sound would envelope you.

EDIT: what i'm trying to say is: GET OVER THE CONSPIRACRY THEORIES, THE PEOPLE THE ALL THE OTHER ASSHOLES IN THE COUNTRY KEEP VOTING FOR ARE TOO INCOMPITANT TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING LIKE THAT. let alone stop it.

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Everytime I provide links to research you dismiss it as from a "looney.....whose own department has disavowed him", or a "whack job", or "an infamous anti-semite.....unadulterated nut. Idiot. Fool. Asshole. or 108 pieces of shit does not a cogent argument make."

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Don't you get it? That guy HAS been dismissed as an idiot by his own colleagues. It's not just me saying something about him, I'm telling you the facts that prove he lacks credibility. Why would you believe what he says when nearly every other qualified scientist (a group of which he is not really a member) says the opposite? You admit to not having expertise in this area, so why accept the word of the one guy who we know should not be taken seriously? What makes his voice so authoritative, except for your desire to believe there's some massive, secret conspiracy at work?

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Just more name calling and refusal to accept or discuss the evidence that rocks your pre-determined comfort zone.

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No, I started calling the kettle black because it is, and I resented your condescending tone (Do you need me to hold your hand?). The evidence has been addressed and accurately assessed, and there's nothing to what you claim.
And again, if you're going to embrace patent morons like David Icke as a source, you can't be taken seriously. Assholes looking to profit from 9/11 (whether friends of Cheney or former Australian rugby commentators) are scum.
Sorry, that's just the way it is.
Now listen to iceman.

I heard there are these pills you can get from a Dr. that will make your dick 3" bigger. He is a real doc and I saw it on the internet so it must be true. Want the link there powdude?

What's that phrase? "There's a dumbassmotherfucker born every..."

powpig, here's some more things to think about, if you're capable:

1. Pieces of AA 77 were found on the Pentagon's lawn from the Pentagon after the strike. Parts of the left wing were found buried 10 ft. into the soil in front of the Pentagon, since it struck the building at a left bank (left wing below right wing). The black box was discovered intact within the building. People in the building at the time of impact recall having jet fuel sprayed all over them as the plane was shredded while decelerating from 500+ mph to 0 mph.

2. Metal does not have to completely melt to cause a building to collapse. Simply heating metal to a point where its' pliable enough to lose structural integrity is enough to bring a building down. Any firefighter can tell you that.

3. Do your homework on aluminothermic reactions. You obviously don't understand the chemical process involved... Example: 3Fe3O4(s) + 8Al(s) → 4Al2O3(s) + 9Fe(s).

4. Common sense dictates that if it were a massive conspiracy, you'd have to have a fucking lot of accomplices to pull off one of this magnitude, and a way to shut up the ones unwilling to go along with it. I highly doubt that the government has the money or resources to keep that many of their own people in line and quiet.

5. If explosives were used to bring down the twin towers, don't you think there would be explosives residue everywhere? If so, where's evidence of this? Even the most sophisicated explosive material leaves traces.

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Originally Posted by powpig

blah blah i'm a fucking retard..... Registered: Oct 2003 Posts: 200

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I liked it better when he hadn't posted for the last 2 1/2 years... lurking suits you maybe you should try it again.

This is fucking GREAT! There are these "protesters" walking around in front of the White House who totally agree with you Powpig. You are not alone, my friend.

If "they" can't keep a petty burglary (Watergate) or a blowjob secret how in the name of all that is good and pure do you think "they" could keep a lid on this?

That's a pretty dumb question, Tipp. C'mon, a blow job is infinitely harder to keep secret than a conspiracy involving hundreds to thousands of people that results in the collapse of the largest office tower complex in the world and partial destruction of the Pentagon. Oh, and a few thousand dead.
That's easy to cover up.
But a blow job? My god, everytime I get one I'm telling everyone I know about it, so you can imagine how Bill felt after scoring that fat intern.
Yeah, i'm starting to buy into this whole conspiracy theory thing. It doesn't make much sense, but that's what we've got willing suspension of disbelief for, right?

guys, let powpig have at it. I think we'd all rather have him and his believers cooking up shit like Loose Change than mixing fertilizer.

Powpig, I thought your avatar would depict your flat earth society badge.

edit: I think powpig is liveblogging from here http://www.time.com/time/nation/prin...202840,00.html

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Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

Damn, and I thought we were going to be talking about how the Mossad and CIA engineered the whole thing (accepted as gospel in Arab countries).
Or about how all the Jews stayed home from work that day (gotta get myself put in that phone chain).

God I'm tired of these stupid theories coming up here, or anywhere for that matter. Why do people feel such a need to invent fiction to explain things they don't like? JFK is too great a man to have been killed by one nut, so we need to imagine the Russian-CIA-freemason-Mafia is behind it...

And the thing in Bldg Seven (where I used to work) was definitely due to the diesel being stored there--as soon as the diesel ignited it was pretty easy to see how that was going to end up.

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You'd think a moron like yourself would love the conspiracy theories to help support the left. Since when did logic and reasoning play a part in your thought process?

PowPig. I'm damn ashamed to share this planet with morons such as yourself. I don't know you, but I'd bet 100 billion dollars you've never set foot within a "school of science" or "school of engineering" at any university. If indeed you have even set foot upon the soil of an institute of higher education, I bet the carving above the door read something to the effect of "School of Consumer Science and Family Studies."

Wow, even the board fuckwad is on the right side here. Generally the rule is if Blurred is for it, you should be against it, but the sun even shines on a dog's ass some days...

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Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

but the sun even shines on a dog's ass some days...

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To bad you use sunscreen on yours:p ;)

Dex doesn't even have a dog.

And, as long as I'm posting, that Loose Change video isn't very convincing at all. I'm not a conspiracy theorist type, but I enjoy watching and reading conspiracy theory stuff, and Loose Change isn't worth half an hour of your life.

You're right, but that was either the cleverest or strangest thing TJ has ever posted...yet also quite disturbing, in its own way.

I was going to say it was quite sexy, in its own way. But yeah, "disturbing" is probably more accurate.

Note to self: when Mr. Dallas, Esq., posts 'sexy' photos, do not look.

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Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

You're right, but that was either the cleverest or strangest thing TJ has ever posted...yet also quite disturbing, in its own way.

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Don't make me remind everyone that I scored higher on that IQ test than you did again. Oops I just did:the_finge

Hope everybody had a great weekend! My battery's recharged and I'm back for more abuse!

First things first, thanks for asking TJ, ball is goin' great! I'm on fire, batting over .700!!!


Now where we we................................Oh yeah. According to youz guys:

I'm a fucking moron, idiot, retard, closed-minded zealot etc, because I don't accept the official 911 report as gospel.
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

I can't dare to suggest that this report is even slightly flawed or incomplete because I lack the academic credentials to do so. Further, no one without diplomas aplenty and the full support of his peers has anything valid to say on this or any other matter.

The mountains of evidence pointing out inconsistencies, omissions, or downright falsehoods in the official report and the calls for further investigation are invalid and a waste of time because, well just because you guys say they are right?


Must be nice to live in such a black and white world, no shades of gray to complicate daily life. My only question to my naysayers is do you really believe the Official 911 Commission Report is 100% accurate and answers all questions? If so, there's really nothing more to discuss. If not, then why the resisitance to additional evidence?

Here IMO (and I think I know what most of you think of that) is a good retort to the Official Report:
http://911blimp.net/prf_911commRpt.shtml#wtcCollapse


Scholars for 911 Truth http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/
911 Blimp http://911blimp.net/home.shtml
US Senator Mark Dayton's speech on the Senate Floor July 30, 2004, 8 days after the release of the 911 report. http://911blimp.net/rpt_Dayton2004.html
American Scholars Symposium http://www.americanscholarssymposium.org/


This has been fun, maybe next we can discuss JFK or the Bilderbergers.

Well, since I started this thread, I'lll chime in a bit.
First off, I brought this up because I am interested in the theories and was interested in what other folks thought of their validity. I was and am still curious about what people with a calm and rationale mindset think about the popular "conspiracy theories" and maybe chat up a few others that I hadn't come across. I had no intention of it becoming a yelling match nor do I think I get anything out of people disecting each other's argumentative styles and abilities. I should have done a search first and spared us all the mess.
I can't say I trust the government 100%, but that isn't a reason to trust the conspiracy theorists more.
Some of the shouters have brought up points that do debunk some of the theories, how the jet fuel burning couldn't have melted steel - actually paired with the other shit burning and the fact that steel will bend at half the melting point, for example. Thanks for that bit. I'll read the Pop Mechanics article and some of the other research sighted.

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I'm a fucking moron, idiot, retard, closed-minded zealot etc, because I don't accept the official 911 report as gospel.
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

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No, and no one said that. There may be errors in the official report, but that's not what this is about. You may be the only person to have brought up the official report here.
You're a moron for reasons completely independent of that.

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I can't dare to suggest that this report is even slightly flawed or incomplete because I lack the academic credentials to do so. Further, no one without diplomas aplenty and the full support of his peers has anything valid to say on this or any other matter.

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Again, no one has even remotely suggested this. But if you're going to challenge what is universally accepted about an engineering event and challenge those who are trained to understand such events, you better have something good. You've shown nothing--again, except for that crazy guy whose own colleagues rebutted him (as did everyone else), and another crazy anti-semite who believes the world is run by lizards. Oh yeah, let's not forget the Frog who's convinced the U.S. will turn an anti-matter ray on Jupiter.
Not the makings of a strong case, although I'm not sure why this needs to be pointed out to you.

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The mountains of evidence pointing out inconsistencies, omissions, or downright falsehoods in the official report and the calls for further investigation are invalid and a waste of time because, well just because you guys say they are right?

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Every single point you presented has been refuted multiple times. You've still got nothing. It has nothing to do with what 'we' say.

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Must be nice to live in such a black and white world, no shades of gray to complicate daily life.

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God, you're way off here and grasping at straws. Must be nice to live in a world in which fantasy rules and fact and logic are meaningless.

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My only question to my naysayers is do you really believe the Official 911 Commission Report is 100% accurate and answers all questions?

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I don't know how accurate it is, but even if it's wildly off, that's no support for what you've presented. Try to think carefully about this and you'll realize that the least probable explanation for something is not right simply because it makes for a better story, or because David Icke supports it.

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If so, there's really nothing more to discuss. If not, then why the resisitance to additional evidence?

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I was about to invite you to present additional 'evidence', but you don't seem to get the idea that evidence needs to be based in fact and prove something relevant. Presenting theories that have been shown false is not 'evidence'.

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This has been fun, maybe next we can discuss JFK or the Bilderbergers.

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Freemasons rule the world!! Don't let a black helicopter hit your head on the way out.

there sure is some fed up ideas in those links.

they certinaly get your mind thinking
espically this:

ut neither NIST nor FEMA have ever definitively stated the cause of the collapse of Building 7. And since then we have been told by the building's owner (lease-holder) that the building was brought down upon command.

Surely, the blue-ribbon government 9-11 Commission would want to settle this major discrepancy in its complete and final report, right?

Wrong! It provides no explanation, or even an attempt at one, whatsoever.

The videos of the WTC7 collapse make it clear the building was brought down in some kind of controlled fashion. But how could that have been accomplished right after the attacks unless WTC7 had been rigged in advance with explosive demolition charges? And, of course, if WTC7 had been so rigged, that raises the natural question of whether the fallen twin towers had been the recipients of similar treatment...

and this:

No mention of 9/11 War Games

here is da linky

http://www.maavak.net/rwolf/rwolf033.html


just woah
Just a reminder of how little about our govt we know.

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Originally Posted by powpig

I can't dare to suggest that this report is even slightly flawed or incomplete because I lack the academic credentials to do so. Further, no one without diplomas aplenty and the full support of his peers has anything valid to say on this or any other matter.

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Would you let a delusional homeless man perform a life-saving operation on you?

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there sure is some fed up ideas in those links.

they certinaly get your mind thinking
espically this:

ut neither NIST nor FEMA have ever definitively stated the cause of the collapse of Building 7. And since then we have been told by the building's owner (lease-holder) that the building was brought down upon command.

Surely, the blue-ribbon government 9-11 Commission would want to settle this major discrepancy in its complete and final report, right?

Wrong! It provides no explanation, or even an attempt at one, whatsoever.

The videos of the WTC7 collapse make it clear the building was brought down in some kind of controlled fashion. But how could that have been accomplished right after the attacks unless WTC7 had been rigged in advance with explosive demolition charges? And, of course, if WTC7 had been so rigged, that raises the natural question of whether the fallen twin towers had been the recipients of similar treatment...

and this:

No mention of 9/11 War Games

here is da linky

http://www.maavak.net/rwolf/rwolf033.html


just woah
Just a reminder of how little about our govt we know.

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This is getting really bizarre, there are so many freaky ideas about this out there. It's kind of scary what people are willing to believe.
If you check on the term 'pull', you'll find that it's not a commonly used demolition term, and even if it were, why would Larry Silverstein use it and then recount it to a national audience if he were part of a massive, SECRET, conspiracy? C'mon. If the conspirators were that stupid, we wouldn't be having this debate and you'd be right.
Not only that, do you have any idea what would be required to rig bldg. seven for demolition? I worked in bldg 7 (years before 2001), and it would be nearly impossible to do something like that without people finding out. People are in that building all the time (I know that there were people going in and out, unscheduled, all the time, as there are at any NYC building with similar office use).

Allegation: 9/11 Revealed suggests that the 47-story World Trade Center 7 building, which collapsed at 5:20 pm on September 11, was intentionally demolished. The primary piece of evidence for this is a comment that Mr. Larry Silverstein, who owned the World Trade Center complex, made on the September 2002 television documentary American Rebuilds. Mr. Silverstein said:

I remember getting a call from the Fire Department commander, telling me they were not sure they were going to be able to contain the fire. I said, you know, “We've had such terrible loss of life that the smartest thing to do is just pull it.” And they made that decision to pull it and we watched the [World Trade Center 7] building collapse.

9/11 Revealed and other conspiracy theorists put forward the notion that Mr. Silverstein’s suggestion to “pull it” is slang for intentionally demolishing the WTC 7 building.

Facts: On September 9, 2005, Mr. Dara McQuillan, a spokesman for Silverstein Properties, issued the following statement on this issue:

Seven World Trade Center collapsed at 5:20 p.m. on September 11, 2001, after burning for seven hours. There were no casualties, thanks to the heroism of the Fire Department and the work of Silverstein Properties employees who evacuated tenants from the building.

The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) conducted a thorough investigation of the collapse of all the World Trade Center buildings. The FEMA report concluded that the collapse of Seven World Trade Center was a direct result of fires triggered by debris from the collapse of WTC Tower 1.

In the afternoon of September 11, Mr. Silverstein spoke to the Fire Department Commander on site at Seven World Trade Center. The Commander told Mr. Silverstein that there were several firefighters in the building working to contain the fires. Mr. Silverstein expressed his view that the most important thing was to protect the safety of those firefighters, including, if necessary, to have them withdraw from the building.

Later in the day, the Fire Commander ordered his firefighters out of the building and at 5:20 p.m. the building collapsed. No lives were lost at Seven World Trade Center on September 11, 2001.

As noted above, when Mr. Silverstein was recounting these events for a television documentary he stated, “I said, you know, we've had such terrible loss of life. Maybe the smartest thing to do is to pull it.” Mr. McQuillan has stated that by “it,” Mr. Silverstein meant the contingent of firefighters remaining in the building.

The National Institute of Standards and Technology has stated unequivocally, “NIST has seen so evidence that the collapse of WTC 7 was caused by bombs, missiles, or controlled demolition,” in its Collapse of WTC 7 report (p. 6). NIST’s working hypothesis for the collapse of WTC 7 is that it was caused by the collapse of a critical column due to “fire and/or debris induced structural damage.” There was substantial damage to WTC 7 when the nearby WTC 1 tower collapsed and fires began shortly afterwards. Also, WTC 7 was a very unusual building because it was built over an existing Con-Edison power generation substation, which contained two large 6,000 gallon fuel tanks for the emergency generation of power. The fuel from these tanks could have contributed to the intense heat that apparently weakened the supporting columns in WTC 7.

What happened to the good old days when most crackpots were right wingers?

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Originally Posted by powpig

I'm a fucking moron, idiot, retard, closed-minded zealot etc, because I don't accept the official 911 report as gospel.

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This has little to do with the report and a lot to do with common sense. Two 757's (read: big ass planes) hit two large office buildings. The fact that you're NOT going to assume that they were the cause of the collapse is why you're a moron. There's nothing wrong with a conspiracy theory for "what if?" analysis, I just don't believe one should assume that a conspiracy took place when logical reasoning points elsewhere. Is there something wrong with this? Like I said, I can't say with 100% certainty that there wasn't a conspiracy, but until I hear some incredibly convincing evidence I'm going to have to believe what logic and common sense tells me.

Aside from all the facts that have been discussed on here about melting steel, structural loads, engineering blah blah, I think it is important to look at broader concepts that MIGHT have something to do with 9/11. I am curious about what you all think about the Project for the New American Century. (google PNAC)

I understand that PNAC is a document drafted in the late 1990's by many heavyweights in the Bush Administration that declares the need for the expansion of American military all over the globe. This document also states that these changes and expansion will happen very slowly, unless there is a major catastophic event that kicks things into high gear. When looking at PNAC, seeing that the major catastophic event of 9/11 happened shortly thereafter, and then of course how 9/11 was used a rallying cry to blindly go to war and invade Iraq and then create this seemingly neverending mess in the middle east, we are certainly in the process of expanding our military in the middle east. I think it is also noteworthy that a lot of Bush cronies are involved with weapons companies (they make money from selling bombs), and rebuiliing companies like Haliburton, (who make money from rebuilding bombed out places).

So instead of nitpicking little facts about the actual events of 9/11, lets put some thought into broader concepts that MIGHT have shaped the political climate prior to and after that day.

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Originally Posted by Super G

...I am curious about what you all think about the Project for the New American Century. (google PNAC)
...
So instead of nitpicking little facts about the actual events of 9/11, lets put some thought into broader concepts that MIGHT have shaped the political climate prior to and after that day.

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There is a difference between taking advantage of an event and planning/executing it.

I believe that the PNAC folks took full advantage of events after 9/11 to impliment thier vision, but they had planned this kind of response to ANY kind of terrorist attack that would put fear ahead of reason in the minds of decision makers.

Have you actually read the PNAC documents? I have. It's mostly about streamlining the US military to better handle events in today's world. Faster response deployment, better brown water capabilitles, etc. The line you quote about a major event (like Pearl Harbor) accelerating the plan was simply one sentence in the entire document.

I wouldn't read too much into the coincidence.

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Originally Posted by pointedem

there sure is some fed up ideas in those links.

they certinaly get your mind thinking
espically this:

ut neither NIST nor FEMA have ever definitively stated the cause of the collapse of Building 7. And since then we have been told by the building's owner (lease-holder) that the building was brought down upon command.

The videos of the WTC7 collapse make it clear the building was brought down in some kind of controlled fashion.

http://www.maavak.net/rwolf/rwolf033.html

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I will confirm, or at least add to, what the other person said debunking the claim that the owner said it was brought down upon command.

The phrase "pull" is the common term for emergency crews being called out of a dangerous situation. FOr instance, "We are pulling engine 29." in a forest fire due to hte direction of that fire toward engine 29. When the fire cheif called the owner about "pulling" the building, he was most likely referring to removing all the fire teams inside the building.

As for video's "proving" it was brought down in a controlled fashion, what panel of demolitions and architectural experts are you citing there?

Just my $.02

Hey Danno, thx for linking this.

Platinum Pete / Platinum is my all-time bestest friend from TGR. He's now married with a son and living in San Francisco. Don't know if he's still with Yahoo. I need to check in.

I so miss bklyn / Bklyn Tracey...the sexiest, and smartest, Maggette after Kellie.

Those Q peeps make a compelling argument based in level headed rational thoughts. I think they missed the mark in not going public this year when anything goes.
The magic of it must work cuz I don’t see htf a few got elected/won primaries.

Never Forget.




....that conspiracy theories are for the feeble minded. :fmicon:

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Originally Posted by powpig

Now, I have provided links with mountains of evidence compiled by tireless researchers like Alex Jones & David Icke. I have read a couple of Icke's books and have heard each interviewed many times, Jones just last night. I consider these two men to be highly credible researchers, and I certainly believe their documented research a lot more than the habitual lies spewed forth from our corrupt, for sale to the highest bidder public servants.

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yikes

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Originally Posted by SkiBall

Those Q peeps make a compelling argument based in level headed rational thoughts. I think they missed the mark in not going public this year when anything goes.
The magic of it must work cuz I don’t see htf a few got elected/won primaries.

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QAnon is a Nazi Cult, Rebranded

A secret cabal is taking over the world. They kidnap children, slaughter, and eat them to gain power from their blood. They control high positions in government, banks, international finance, the news media, and the church. They want to disarm the police. They promote homosexuality and pedophilia. They plan to mongrelize the white race so it will lose its essential power.

QAnon’s conspiracy theory is a rebranded version of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

https://www.justsecurity.org/72339/q...ult-rebranded/

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

QAnon is a Nazi Cult, Rebranded

A secret cabal is taking over the world. They kidnap children, slaughter, and eat them to gain power from their blood. They control high positions in government, banks, international finance, the news media, and the church. They want to disarm the police. They promote homosexuality and pedophilia. They plan to mongrelize the white race so it will lose its essential power.

QAnon’s conspiracy theory is a rebranded version of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

https://www.justsecurity.org/72339/q...ult-rebranded/

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https://youtu.be/N1KvgtEnABY

Happy cognitive dissonance day!

https://youtu.be/jLXyB5GtfBU

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Originally Posted by Core Shot

Happy cognitive dissonance day!

https://youtu.be/jLXyB5GtfBU

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5min of mostly bullshit and lies and obvious exaggeration and misdirection.