Take that, Barry Bonds

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05-22-2006, 10:27 AM
powpig

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMan

the guy's trainer was head of the balco ring. how is that flimsy?

Who's denied he ever gave Bonds steroids
At least you're not trumpeting the testimony of his jilted ex-lover as credible.

Have you actually read Book of Shadows? Here's a brief synopsis of the evidence against Bonds:

1) Kimberly Bell's Grand Jury testimony that Barry told her that he started using steroids after the 1998 season and then changed what and how he used after his injuries in 1999.
2) An anonymous source (identified as close to Barry Bonds) says Greg Anderson was providing Barry Bonds steroids during the 1999 season. (The only new source the book provides that was not in any of the original SF Chronicle articles.)
3) Tim Montgomery's Grand Jury testimony that Victor Conte told him he was providing steroids to Barry Bonds sometime in 2000 or 2001 (Tim wasn't sure which year!).
4) IRS Special Agent and Lead Balco Investigator Jeff Novitzky's notes on his interviews during the raid on Balco with both Victor Conte (Balco President) and Jim Valente (Balco VP) in which Jeff claims both Jim and Victor state that they provided steroids to Barry Bonds. (Both Victor and Jim have repeatedly and publicly denied ever making these statements and ever providing steroids to Barry Bonds.)
5) CJ Hunter's Grand Jury testimony in which he claims that Victor Conte told him in 2003 that he was providing steroids to Barry Bonds. (Like Tim Montgomery's testimony this testimony is hearsay against Barry Bonds it is only usable in court (criminal or civil) against Victor Conte and not against Barry Bonds.)
6) Documents seized in the raid of Greg Anderson's apartment that suposedly document use of steroids by Barry Bonds in 2002 and 2003. (Greg Anderson has repeatedly denied providing steroids to Barry Bonds while he has acknowledged providing steroids to others.)
7) Unverified (no voice verification or untampered verification)and never played in public Tape Recording of conversation between an anonymous source (identified as close to Greg Anderson) and Greg Anderson in which Anderson is supposed to brag about how undectable the steroids are that he is providing to Barry Bonds. (Again, Greg Anderson has repeatedly denied providing steroids to Barry Bonds while acknowledging he provided steroids to others.)

Like I said, flimsy!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMan

you're right, except he admitted to taking a substance and putting it under his tongue claiming it wasnt steroids.

No he didn't. Bonds has made zero claims, that's what's driving you and all the Bonds haters crazy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMan

bottom line, the majority rules against him, you are one of the few and proud barry supporters.

Yes, I'm proud to say I think for myself and make my own decisions rather than follow mob mentality.

GO GIANTS!!
05-22-2006, 10:55 AM
JMan

here ya go: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...e=hruby/060512

Quote:

Yes, I'm proud to say I think for myself and make my own decisions rather than follow mob mentality.

make sure you patt yourself on the back.
05-22-2006, 11:08 AM
marshalolson

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMan

dont tell me you think guys in the mlb arent using roids anymore.

who, like alber pujols?
05-22-2006, 11:20 AM
Cono Este

The sad truth is, America does not give a shit about steroids. they just like big numbers.

Hey kid you want to play in the big leagues? Bend over, let me jab you in the keester with this.

If i were a baseball geek, i'd be real pissed right now.
05-22-2006, 12:40 PM
JMan

Quote:

who, like alber pujols?

no, but everyone is under the microscope who puts up really good numbers and they will be under suspicion now that steroids have been brought to light. its too bad, but we are in the steroid era now.

Quote:

The sad truth is, America does not give a shit about steroids. they just like big numbers.

sad, but true. i think now that books have come out and the public has been exposed to the whole steroid thing, they may feel different. but yeah, everyone ate up the home run race between mcgwire and sosa. poor bonds felt he wasnt getting enough attention so he joined the group and increased his homeruns the next year by 24. gotta be natural.:rolleyes:
05-22-2006, 03:04 PM
smmokan

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMan

all those guys are under scrutiny and all their records. its not my asterisk, its the mlb's, but no i wouldnt. i believe he and all those guys cheated and therefore should be criticized.

First off, there's no asterisk. Its all what the media is playing it up to be, and MLB hasn't put an asterisk anywhere.

Second- I love how America (mostly fueled by the moron Congressmen and Senators) thinks that steroids are only a problem in baseball. Wake up people. I'm betting the NFL has more of a steroids problem than baseball, and who knows about basketball or track and field. If its not steroids, its some other performance enhancing drug. Hell, I bet its a problem in COLLEGE sports. They don't regulate it at all there- when I was in college (D1 baseball), we had a couple tests a year that were administered half-heartedly at best. Our star OF smoked weed a couple days beforehand, and for the test he filled his pee cup with water and gatorade. Didn't get caught.
05-22-2006, 10:49 PM
JMan

Quote:

First off, there's no asterisk. Its all what the media is playing it up to be, and MLB hasn't put an asterisk anywhere.

yes, there is man. the reason for the asterisk is to let people know in the future when steroid testing started. its a fact, i didnt make it up. go to espn.com and find out for yourself. there will be an asterisk next to barry bonds' name.
what school did u play for out of curiousity?
05-22-2006, 11:55 PM
Sierra Cement

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMan

here ya go: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...e=hruby/060512

Yea, ESPN has become so classy in their ways of recognizing a great feat. The significance of this accomplishment has been totally clouded by the media frenzy about Barry's potential steroid use.....if you choose to be lured in by the shallow opinions from somewhere far behind the sidelines. The easiest thing to do in life is to be a critic, right JMan? Props to the Oakland fans for giving him a standing ovation upon his HR - I'm glad to see some folks in this world (Nor Cal) still think for themselves and recognize a great feat, rather than react as an angry mob led around by the media nose ring, a la Houstan-ites.

Anyone remember how defiantly positive the French, the press, and who ever the fuck wanted some limelight were in their accusations about Lance being a doper? NO POSITIVE TEST RESULTS, EVER. But the media had to cover every tiny, ridiculous, insignificant accusation. And then, of course, it never even made the ESPN midnight airing when the French judge dismissed all charges against LA due to lack of evidence. Because a hard working hero being succesful is not the immediately satisfying, controversial icon buster of a story the media thrives on. He even had to threaten to make a return for an 8th tour victory just to shut 'em all up again last Winter. Our celebrity enamoured society finds the only attraction in modern day sports to be the stories of flawed and falling heros. And he who discovers and divulges that flaw has accomplished the greatest feat in the ratty world of sports media. Isn't it great for our kids to tune into ESPN to learn more about their idols only to see constant updates on the wrong doings of T.O., Rasheed Wallace, Allen Iverson, Ricky Williams, Kobe and Duke Lacrosse....?! As a parent, I remind my kids that T.V. (and the internet) are not actually the real world. I hope other parents do this too.

Watch out Pujols, cause you are everyone's darling right now. The sharks are quite strong - and they know that the higher they build your temple now, the hotter it will burn later. :rolleyes:

When Barry retires he will regain his status as one of the greatest players to ever swing a bat. Because critics have no soul, and when he is through playing they will conveniently whore their opinions in which ever direction they feel it is best received by the mindless masses.
05-23-2006, 07:48 AM
JMan

well, we agree to disagree. i based my opinion on the inconsistency of his numbers throughout his career, not the media fyi. the question will always remain and his numbers will always be in question too with or without the persuading media. as far as pujols goes who may get criticized and judged by fans or the media, you can thank barry for that as well as mcgwire, sosa, and giambi.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1937594

looks like sheffield through him under the bus. the media can lie, but a quote is a quote.
05-23-2006, 08:38 AM
smmokan

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMan

yes, there is man. the reason for the asterisk is to let people know in the future when steroid testing started. its a fact, i didnt make it up. go to espn.com and find out for yourself. there will be an asterisk next to barry bonds' name.
what school did u play for out of curiousity?

Well damn, I be wrong. My bad.

I played for UNC-Greensboro from 96-99, back when we were good (averaged 40 wins when I played) and played a tough schedule. We played all the ACC and SEC teams for non-conference, and were in the Southern Conference. It was pretty interesting to see how different schools and conferences treated their players (I played in summer leagues with a lot of Miami, UCLA, Ga Tech, etc guys).
05-23-2006, 11:20 AM
powpig

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMan

yes, there is man. the reason for the asterisk is to let people know in the future when steroid testing started. its a fact, i didnt make it up. go to espn.com and find out for yourself. there will be an asterisk next to barry bonds' name.

Was curious so I did go to espn.com but could find no such story or claim. Can you provide the link please? Otherwise I'm gonna have to call BULLSHIT!

It just makes no sense and seems ridiculous to me that MLB would put an asterisk next to any player's name who's never tested positive. Is it only Bonds you're claiming will have the asterisk or all MLB stats for the timeframe in question? How do we know which if any of the pitchers Bonds homered off of were on roids? They all tested as clean and roid free as Barry.
05-23-2006, 11:42 AM
JMan

Quote:

Originally Posted by powpig

Was curious so I did go to espn.com but could find no such story or claim. Can you provide the link please? Otherwise I'm gonna have to call BULLSHIT!

It just makes no sense and seems ridiculous to me that MLB would put an asterisk next to any player's name who's never tested positive. Is it only Bonds you're claiming will have the asterisk or all MLB stats for the timeframe in question? How do we know which if any of the pitchers Bonds homered off of were on roids? They all tested as clean and roid free as Barry.

i guess i stand corrected, it is up for debate as we speak. they may use the asterisk to mention steroid testing had not be in effect and mlb had not made it "illegal" in the rule book.
05-23-2006, 11:44 AM
marshalolson

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMan

... to mention steroid testing had not be in effect and mlb had not made it "illegal" in the rule book...

so how is it CHEATING if no rule was broken?
05-23-2006, 11:47 AM
Danno

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMan

i guess i stand corrected, it is up for debate as we speak. they may use the asterisk to mention steroid testing had not be in effect and mlb had not made it "illegal" in the rule book.

so, does everyone prior to the recent testing get an asterisk?
05-23-2006, 11:48 AM
JMan

Quote:

so how is it CHEATING if no rule was broken?

whats with the caps? i can read normal font. lets say he admitted to using steroids, you dont consider using performance ENHANCING drugs cheating? rule or no rule?
05-23-2006, 12:17 PM
smmokan

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMan

whats with the caps? i can read normal font. lets say he admitted to using steroids, you dont consider using performance ENHANCING drugs cheating? rule or no rule?

You have to be caught for it to be cheating.
05-23-2006, 12:23 PM
JMan

Quote:

You have to be caught for it to be cheating.

you're right. thats what is so upsetting about this situation. no one can honestly believe that bonds, mcgwire, sosa and that whole posse turned into super humans naturally. they looked like body builders.
05-23-2006, 12:34 PM
smmokan

Why, because McGwire's forearms were as big as my legs? That's preponderous!
05-23-2006, 01:13 PM
JMan

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mul...ars/bonds1.jpg
http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphic...4/bonds327.jpg
05-23-2006, 01:17 PM
Blurred

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMan

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mul...ars/bonds1.jpg
http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphic...4/bonds327.jpg

So you mean a professional athlete, who has been paid millions of dollars to workout in the gym a couple times a week over a period of TWENTY YEARS has actually gained some muscle? That's just outlandish!!!:rolleyes:
05-23-2006, 01:23 PM
JMan

Quote:

So you mean a professional athlete, who has been paid millions of dollars to workout in the gym a couple times a week over a period of TWENTY YEARS has actually gained some muscle? That's just outlandish!!!

30 lbs in one off-season is outlandish. especially at his age. those pictures dont do much justice b/c everyone gains weight from their rookie season to the end of their career.

a couple times a week!?! i would like to know how long you have to work out during those two days in order to look like a body builder. wow:rolleyes:
05-23-2006, 01:24 PM
marshalolson

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlurredElevens

So you mean a professional athlete, who has been paid millions of dollars to workout in the gym a couple times a week over a period of TWENTY YEARS has actually gained some muscle? That's just outlandish!!!:rolleyes:

2nd'd

i am no pro, nor do i get millions, nor do i use steroids.

but i weighed 170 and 6% body fat when i was 19yrs old.

i now weigh in at 215lbs and am under 9% body fat. i am 26yrs old (and have wieghed over 200 for the last 3 years)

i have put on about 45lbs of muscle in 7 years. none of it was gained by pumping iron, but rather eating alot and biking and skiing every day. why can't a professional, with a nutritionists, trainers etc...?
05-23-2006, 01:28 PM
JMan

Quote:

i have put on about 45lbs of muscle in 7 years. why can't a professional, with a nutritionists, trainers, etc...?

yeah i can see how gaining 45 lbs in 7 years is the same as gaining 30 in one year.:eek:
05-23-2006, 01:29 PM
marshalolson

and aside from all of that, show me anywhere it has been PROVEN ( ;) ) that barry cheated. and then i'll agree with you.

innocent until proven guilty.
05-23-2006, 01:32 PM
MassLiberal

So marshal, do you think OJ did it?

Just curious.
05-23-2006, 01:34 PM
marshalolson

i don't think he should be publicly called a murderer without a guilty verdict
05-23-2006, 01:34 PM
smmokan

Quote:

Originally Posted by marshalolson

and aside from all of that, show me anywhere it has been PROVEN ( ;) ) that barry cheated. and then i'll agree with you.

innocent until proven guilty.

The main evidence against Bonds is that he admitted to the grand jury (thru leaked, and unusable testimony) that he used steroids. It wasn't supposed to get out to the public, but it did, and now its his downfall. Personally, that's evidence enough for me. I'm absolutely amazed at what he can do at the plate (especially a few years ago), but its all tarnished because of his admittance.
05-23-2006, 01:38 PM
Blurred

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMan

yeah i can see how gaining 45 lbs in 7 years is the same as gaining 30 in one year.:eek:

There's something called creatine monohydrate. Google it.

It expands the cells in your muscle to hold more water.
I can gain 15 lbs. of muscle(by your definition) in a week taking it, and it's completely legal. Every serious athlete uses it. (and yes, if you quit taking it, you lose that mass right away)
05-23-2006, 01:44 PM
JMan

ive heard of creatine and i dont think there would be this much debate and controversy over it if thats what he took. do you?
05-23-2006, 01:59 PM
smmokan

I hope you're not defending Bonds and trying to come up with reasons how he put on all the muscle and got stronger as he turned 40... its known that he took steroids, he just never tested positive with MLB. And therein lies the dilemma.
05-23-2006, 02:13 PM
Blurred

Lets talk about Lance Armstrong taking roids....cuz you know, he's pretty fuckin' buff too.
05-23-2006, 02:20 PM
MassLiberal

maybe if lance armstrong looked like a beached whale with a head the size of a watermelon, people would be talking about him taking steriods.

But then again, all that extra weight would probablybe a bitch when climbing the Alpe d'huez
05-23-2006, 02:27 PM
Blurred

Quote:

Originally Posted by MassLiberal

maybe if lance armstrong looked like a beached whale with a head the size of a watermelon, people would be talking about him taking steriods.

But then again, all that extra weight would probablybe a bitch when climbing the Alpe d'huez

I was going to call you a racist, but you saved it by making me laugh with that last sentence. :D
05-23-2006, 02:41 PM
Art Shirk

This is fuckin ridiculous. Bonds looks like a goddamn WWF wrestler. Do all WWF wrestler's use roids? Maybe not Capt'n Lou, but the rest sure do. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and all its duck friends says its a duck, am I really that unreasonable to believe it is a goddamn duck??

I don;t give a shit about the media. I get to use my own two eyes on this one. If he isn't using roids, he is wearing the costume of a roid user, so forgive me if I criticize. End of story.
05-23-2006, 03:23 PM
Cono Este

Was he using Steroids? He was Balco's top client for christ sakes. The deabte is not about wether he took them, but about wether he knew was.
And they were not testing for the "clear".

It was called "Balco Labs", not GNC. And they were not making him his Latte everyday.

I am a Giants fan and always have been. i have been proud to say my brother went to school with him and that I attended the same school. He was once my hero. But, he is a God Damn Cheater!! And I hate cheaters. Most of us played competetive sports, I myself was a Nationally ranked swimmer, and after the years I spent swimming up and down a god damn pool at 5 in the morning i have noooo respect for that man or any other cheater.

Thank you.:FIREdevil :FIREdevil :FIREdevil
05-23-2006, 04:53 PM
Bodhi

But how do Giants fans like you react when Mr. Barry hits a homerun to help win a game???

Me, I am a poor Padre fan with no hope of a future...cheating or not, excitment every now and then is a pretty nice thing, IMHO.

As far as records go--to much diversity in baseball over the years to go crying foul, every 25yrs or so there seems to be some issue mucking up the records and then out come the *** boo birds...

Remember, also, that the pitchers probably were also on steroids as well. In the late 90's early 2s, I never seen so many pitcher throwing in the high 90 to lower 100s...

jm2c.

peace,
D.

ps--Top page Bitches!!!
05-23-2006, 05:52 PM
IE

I was thinking about a few specific guys in baseball:

RJ - What happened to him? How many of you think he was using steroids? His numbers were ridiculous before the testing started. Did he drop off so drastically because of his age or because he got off the juice? People generally liked him, and still do, even though he went to the Yankees.

Ortiz - The guy is rediculous. One of the best hitters in the game for sure. Came over to Boston as a free agent? I think so, but not positive. The Twins didn't want to keep him. He absolutely exploded when he got to Boston. How come? Is he juicing and masking? Must be, right? He's a great guy though, and the people in the media love him.

Schilling - Pretty good pitcher. Talk about performance enhancing drugs, though. I know those cortizone, or whatever, shots in the ankle he got during the playoffs when they won the Series sure as hell enhanced his performance... Of course, those are not illegal, so he was praised to the highest levels. 'Roids were not illegal in baseball... He isn't all that well liked.

Junior - Best player of the 90s. All around good guy. How come he started getting hurt so much? Was it because he got on the juice and his body started breaking down? Or was it because he got off the juice and it was too much of a shock to his body after years of use?

Clemens - Maybe he is on steroids right now and he's just waiting for the masking agents to kick in, and that's why he doesn't want to come back too early and get caught.

Pujols - This guy is approaching Godly status. His dad is the Giants' first base coach. Did he hook him up with Balco?

Bonds - Those of you who regard him as an asshole, have you actually met him? Just wondering, 'cause I haven't. Aside from Kent, his teammates have his back. Listen to Matheny, Finley, Durham and others on the local TV and radio, they all praise him as a great teammate. Willie Mays has nothing but good to say about Bonds. If Bonds' word is good enough for Willie, it's good enough for me.

Are you willing to question all of those guys and drag them through as much shit as Bonds gets dragged through? If so, why even bother watching baseball? I realize that I'm stretching it on some of those guys, but look at Palmeiro. Before last year he was one of the most respected guys out there. His swing considered by many to be the best left-handed swing -- super smooth and easy, he didn't jack 'em 500 feet, he just put the ball over the fence time and time again, he didn't seem like he needed to take anything. Not once an MVP, and most years not even the best player on his teams, but a sure Hall Of Famer before he got caught.

I'm not sure what the point of this whole tirade is. I guess, it's that I think that way too much is made out of this whole steroid deal, people need to let it go and just watch the games. There is alot of awesome stuff going on that should be on the front pages, rather than the crap we've been getting for the last couple of years.
05-23-2006, 08:37 PM
MassLiberal

Quote:

Schilling - Pretty good pitcher. Talk about performance enhancing drugs, though. I know those cortizone, or whatever, shots in the ankle he got during the playoffs when they won the Series sure as hell enhanced his performance... Of course, those are not illegal, so he was praised to the highest levels. 'Roids were not illegal in baseball... He isn't all that well liked.

Comparing cortizone shots to steriod use is mind bogglingly retarded. You might as well call a person who uses advil a herion addict.
05-24-2006, 12:30 AM
Benny Profane

Quote:

Originally Posted by marshalolson

2nd'd

i am no pro, nor do i get millions, nor do i use steroids.

but i weighed 170 and 6% body fat when i was 19yrs old.

i now weigh in at 215lbs and am under 9% body fat. i am 26yrs old (and have wieghed over 200 for the last 3 years)

i have put on about 45lbs of muscle in 7 years. none of it was gained by pumping iron, but rather eating alot and biking and skiing every day. why can't a professional, with a nutritionists, trainers etc...?

jeez, you're still growing, amigo. This is probably it for you. It's all downhill from here. Trust me, when you're 40, you'll understand why Barry meathead Bonds just ain't natural.

And they can't prove nothin' right now, 'cause they ain't taking blood samples. Urine and saliva don't show much. Betcha Barry is still doing stuff. Along with a lot of others.

Who wants to take bets that Bonds doesn't even make it to the Hall alive?
05-24-2006, 05:37 AM
Cono Este

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

jeez, you're still growing, amigo. This is probably it for you. It's all downhill from here. Trust me, when you're 40, you'll understand why Barry meathead Bonds just ain't natural.

And they can't prove nothin' right now, 'cause they ain't taking blood samples. Urine and saliva don't show much. Betcha Barry is still doing stuff. Along with a lot of others.

Who wants to take bets that Bonds doesn't even make it to the Hall alive?

In the heat of all that happened last year I think he cleaned himself up. Thus, the yr. off.

Hopefully that will be enough to retire him before he catches Mays.

Anyone find it odd that McGuire and Bonds all peaked at 40? I guess they just were not trying very hard before.:confused: :confused:

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