Pulling for you bud. Getting old suxor
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Pulling for you bud. Getting old suxor
Thanks, Lee!
I'm pretty inspired by some folks I know who are older than me and, yet, still getting better/still on the upswing. A buddy who celebrated his 42nd birthday is working on breaking into 5.14 climbing...damn impressive!
I definitely feel I'm a long way from my peak (and hoping it's still ahead of me, not far away in the other direction. ;))
Just finished reading this UAN....best of luck with this. Knees freaking blow....
I have a feeling I'll be going through this again someday as when I got my ACL fixed in Nov. '04, my ortho said that I had a *slight* medial meniscus tear as well. But at the time, he felt that it wasn't serious enough to anything with it at the time. So he just said, "let it be, and come back in and see if it ever starts bothering you and I'll snip it and clean it up". Ughhh...whatever that means. With my level of activity, I know its just a matter of time before I'm back in there [/keepingfingerscrossed]
Anyway, best of luck on the rehab, keep at it, keep getting outside at least, and keep bloggin your experiences here...it definitely helps others. (and helps ya vent too) :)
Thanks TS...
For what it's worth, I've read that the success rate of meniscus repairs when coupled with an ACL reconstruction is much higher than that of a straight up meniscus tear.
If the doc only has to do a partial menisectomy for you (I hope they don't have to do anything and that all is OK), the good news is that you are down for a *very* minimal period of time. Some folks walk out of the OR, from what I hear.
That is what I face if they have to go back in to do a 2nd surgery.
The smaller the amount of tissue they remove, the better in the long-term, of course (reduced chance of osteoarthritis).
Thanks for the kind words.
I'm going back in to rehab in a few minutes and am ready to work harder than ever to get this thing figured out. Either I heal or it tears, and if I can just flush out the situation and *know* one way or the other, I can then move on with my life instead of have it be consumed with working hard but wondering if there is a point.
Off to the gym...then for a long bike ride.
just had a very POSITIVE phys therapy session/workout. i've decided that i AM healed and that there may be pain/discomfort/etc., but i'm going to work through it (just as it was very difficult to work through getting 10 degrees of motion post-op).
i bet the whole world will change when i regain 2 weeks' worth of strength, and the challenges i'll face at that time will make these seem easy.
and if that turns out not to be the case, well, i'll deal will those options as they arise.
no more uncertainty!
(trying "mind over matter" here.... )
The "believing I am healed" thing is working.
In the last 6 days since my "all-clear" from the doc, I wound up doing a couple MTB rides (~3,000 feet of climbing on 12-15 mile rides), did some easy 1 pitch climbs as well as a half-day climb in the mountains (baxter's pinnacle, for those who know the tetons), a couple hikes, and had 2 solid gym workouts (along with daily at-home strengthening).
Things are looking and feeling good...but if it blows out, better to find out now than closer to ski season.
Sounds like you're doing pretty well UAN. I'm encouraged hearing about your difficulties because I'm going through the same thing right now.
I'm nine weeks out of ACL/meniscus repair. I've been walking and road riding for three and I'm up to about 120 miles a weeks on relatively flat roads.
Ever since the first week of walking/riding I've been having episodes of random severe posterior joint line pain (my meniscus repair is medial posterior) associated with movement and/or weight bearing. I've been communicating with my Doc and he and my PT don't seem too concerned, both think pain is normal. I'm stressed because of the severity and quality of the pain (it's like a knife) and I'm concerned that the meniscus repair didn't take or whatever.
Doc says I'm hitting it real hard for nine weeks and some pain is inevitable. He told me not to back off though as long as I listen to my body and keep improving. I know ups and downs are normal but he says the only way to really tell if everything's kosh with the meniscus repair is another scope, at which time the Doc'll remove it if it didn't take and it's definitely way premature for something like that.
My most severe 'incidents' have happened in PT while associated with lateral strength and stability exercises, so now we're just trying to take it easy and not irritate anything. Not only am I starting to worry about my ski season at this point but I can't start my new job if my knee's jacked up so everything's kind of in limbo right now. Frustrating. Anyway, hopefully this is just a bump in the road.
Good luck!
edited for spelling and clarity
Good luck, foxy!
I've not had an ACL issue, so I can't give any advice there -- but be careful with your meniscus repair. Sounds like you are about 2 months out and it's a posterior repair, so you should generally be OK with it. Just don't rush things.
Apparently, there is something they can inject into the joint to help determine if the meniscus repair did not work -- so you don't necessarily have to get it scoped. However, it sounds like you're more concerned about the ACL graft if I read correctly.
I'll have my fingers crossed for you.
I've been getting stronger every day, and I just did a MTB ride last night (~15 miles w/ 3,500' of climbing in the first 6 miles) in 30 minutes less than it took me just 5 days ago.
I'm going to be a porter for a friend's clients this weekend...hiking up nearly 5,000' vert over 6.5 miles w/ 50+ pounds of their gear. Should be a good test!
Whoa!
Yeah that'll be a good test all right.
I'ts actually the meniscus repair I'm concerned about, my new ACL is good to go. I think my problems are muscular now though, and things are improving. Hopefully they'll continue to do so.
Good luck portering.
I wish I could mountainbike.
hey, foxy... sorry, your mention of the failure of the 'graft' confused me. did you somehow have a meniscus graft? (i -- perhaps mistakenly -- associate 'grafting' with the ACL.)Quote:
Originally Posted by foxy
ask your doctor about a non-surgically-invasive way to test the meniscus repair. as you probably ascertained from my posts, i was not in great shape for the first three (protective) months. the doctor then said to go test it out and if i still had major problems over the next 3 weeks (=nearly 4 months post-op), then come see him for the injection/test, which would indicate the need to go back in -- not just for a scope but for another attempt at repair or a removal.
what i'm trying to say, though, is to be patient.
i also learned that the restrictions my doctor placed on me during the protective phase had a big mental impact. i often wondered whether the sensations i was feeling meant the repair was tearing out. when the doc told me it "was as healed as it would ever be", i had a mental shift. where i had previously backed off of pain, i said to myself, 'OK... when you get to the pain, work through it -- there's no damage you can do.'
that did wonders. i can tolerate pain, but i learned that the combination of pain + being in a state of unknown healing was difficult to bear.
now, i figure that i can work through the pain (sensibly), and if i suffer an injury, well...i'm just uncovering something sooner that i would have discovered eventually.
thanks...should be fun. normally, that hike is not a big deal (it's the approach to our climbs), but the rehab element ups the ante. getting a little scratch to do my rehab ain't that bad. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by foxy
soon enough! not sure how the ACL factors in, but my doc cleared me to ride a MTB outside, on level pavement at the 2 mo mark.Quote:
Originally Posted by foxy
the posterior injury *should* have a better chance of healing, and also (statistically) meniscus repairs combined with ACL repairs have a much better track record of healing properly.
Hey, foxy--
I'm a day over nine weeks right now. Doc says no running or jumping type activities for six months (ie: coming off the mtn bike). I figure I'll get in some mellow rides toward the end of the summer though. Till then, Doc doesn't even want me doing real climbs on the roadie for at least another three weeks, depending on how I feel. At that point I'll be three months so we'll see how it goes.
By the way, your new avatar is somewhat less disturbing, thanks.
So...is he holding you back 6 months because of the meniscus? At 3 mo, the tissue is about as healed as it ever will. (ACL graft is something different altogether.)Quote:
Originally Posted by foxy
He may know something about your injury that is making him overly cautious. Also, he may just be protecting you (too much?)...but at 3 months you should be able to sensibly get back into things. That doesn't mean going over the bars on a gnarly descent on your MTB, but it could mean sensible rides on trail where you are aware of your leg and don't do anything insane.
(I've taken a couple tumbles off my bike already (singletrack lined with bushes/brush...so soft falls), and things were OK. Kind of good to get that "If I fall I will immediately tear my knee up again" feeling out of the mind.)
Blew up my medial meniscus in April of 2005 playing volleyball. I'm not a spring chicken, was 48 at the time. Doc tried the "let's see what happens" route. No go. Played in a V-ball tourney and killed it the rest of the way.
Surgery in July, 2005. Doc said to do as much as I could. Was walking unassisted when I got home from surgery, you don't realize the entire knee joint is juiced up with a numbing agent. That wore off shortly and I went to a single crutch. Finally got off the crutch about a week later. No PT required, not much reason to do so if you keep it moving. Lived on Lortab and Advil for a few days. Ice pack and elevate the knee. After about 3 weeks, I could get around pretty good. 8 weeks to walk half way normal.
Skiied last season, and was OK for up to 2 days. After 2 days, day 3 got painful. Lived on Advil through the season.
A year later, there isn't a day that goes by that I don't realize I have no cushion in my left knee joint.
You've got to understand that the meniscus acts as the cushion between the fingers of the femur and the head of the tibia. At the present time, there is no know replacement for the meniscus, short of full blown knee joint replacement. Different types of "fusing" lasers were tried, but unsuccessful.
Good luck,
Ken
Thanks for posting, TNKen. Yeah...having to get the tissue removed is something I'm hoping to avoid -- but who knows?
It's amazing to me that you were able to walk out of surgery and didn't even have to do PT.
I think the issues with recovery from repair vs removal are vastly different, but I'm sure each is challenging in its own way.
My doc seems to think that in one year I won't remember which knee I injured. I feel strength and endurance coming back, but I'm lacking in explosive power (e.g., jumping rope one one leg). Something to work on.
I read somewhere that they are developing artificial cartilage. Wonder how far off that is. I hope it's in time to save all of our ski careers. :)
Yeah - very different. I had a partial menisectomy on my other knee a few years ago - I walked out of the hospital feeling better than I did when I hobbled in. VERY easy recovery compared to the meniscus repair this past spring.Quote:
Originally Posted by upallnight
how's your recovery coming along, AG?Quote:
Originally Posted by altagirl
Eh - okay. I've been running into more problems with the other knee lately - IT bands (both legs actually) keep tightening up so bad it pulls my patellas off to the side and then if I do anything very repetitive (elliptical, XC riding), it really hurts later. But DH is starting to feel WAY better. And we rode motos this weekend, which was a workout (I have sore muscles I haven't felt in a long time...)Quote:
Originally Posted by upallnight
I need to buy one of those foam rollers. I've been doing stretches and massage, etc. but it only seems to help for a few hours and the IT bands are tight again. I've never run into this before. Guess it's not that big of a deal, it's just... annoying at this point.
sorry to hear, but it sounds like the repair itself went well for you (good to hear).
foam roller? for stretching?
when i go out biking, i seem to feel pretty sore for the first 5-10 minutes, but then i kind of get into a groove & the knee feels better.
attempting to jump rope (even jump off of one leg -- which was/is super-hard) helped m out with downhill riding. seems like all those little jolts don't feel so bad after jumping rope.
just posting an update. it's been a little over 4 months since my injury (and surgery the following day).
i'm focused on building strength and endurance, and it's going quite well. i'm startging to get a little bit of dynamic power (side-to-side jumps with an intermediate step on an unstable surface/BOSU ball), and i'm doing squats with some moderate weight. hamstring curls are happening, too, with weights that are approaching what i could do with my uninjured leg (lost some strength in that one from not being fully active).
i'm doing tons of biking...about 5-600 road miles/month (+ MTB rides), some hiking with a weighted pack...and i need to get out and do a few runs. running anything longer than 1/4 mile is tough on the joint, but i think that's simply because i have to break through a soreness barrier.
for the first time the other day, i felt like, 'wow...i really could ski on this knee.'
it's nice to start feeling your endurance and strength coming back -- just a few months ago (heck, even 6 weeks ago) these statements were unimaginable.
i hope that anyone who stumbles upon this thread and has to go through a repair finds a light at the end of the tunnel.
Good thread, as I may be walking (crutching) down this road very soon.
My left knee will not fully extend after hiking down Timp the other day and experiencing some sharp pain in the knee. Then again today while twisting while talking on the phone, of all things.
Going to an ortho as soon as I can make an appointment after this night shift.
Hopefully it's nothing, but it doesn't feel that way.
crap. hope it turns out to be nothing significant, TH.
again, i hope that sharing this info provides something helpful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackhead
Hate to say it but that sounds about right. The first one I had was after my knee locked up (more to pain than anything) during rowing practive (crew stuff). I had to get lifted out of the boat because I literally couldn't extend it without it feeling like sea urchin climbing around in my knee.
I just came across this thread too. I'm seeing an ortho on Thursday. After our Mt. Adams trip in July, my knee has had some achiness, stiffness, and sharp pains from time to time. It's not all the time but is getting to where it's more consistent. I was thinking that I'd probably get it snipped in mid-October, have a 3 week recovery, and be ready to ski by mid-November. This thread, while very informative, has me pretty concerned right now. I don't want to miss this winter! I'm guessing that at my age (50), they will probably be looking at trimming it rather than repair. I know that's the second choice behind repair but I doubt I would have significant healing at this point. Now I'm really going to have to think about the outcomes that are possible. Thanks for giving me a good list of questions to ask my ortho. I'll post what I learn after my visit.
I had a slight meniscus tear; did PT then keep re-injuring it by hiking. The "reinjury" manifests itself in localized pain on inner and and outer parts of the knee towards the front of the knee. The pain is not great but is much more noticeable towards the ends of the Range of Motion - ie fully contracted or extended. I fear hyperextending my knee will blow it out. I really fear skiing and having to be careful or ski with "fear".
I got lazy with PT and am going to get back into hamstring and IT-band stretches and squats to improve strength and maybe go back to the doc for a look-see
for what it's worth, at 5 months post-op i was hiking with an 80# pack up garnet canyon to the lower saddle. (one-way: 6 miles, 4,500' of elevation gain, ~3h)
knee felt pretty good handling more weight than before.
dumped the gear up there and walked out with an empty pack, which also felt better than before.
GM: I hope it turns out well, and I'm glad you find the thread useful. This thread contains information that I learned and wish I had known from day 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldMember
Please note that a "trim" is very different from a repair, so don't be discouraged by the long-and-winding road described in this thread.
I've been told that repairs require some good fortune (in terms of location of the tear near a blood-saturated part of the tissue...as well as timing/not waiting too long), so you *may* be beyond that point. However, the "trim" can have you one your feet pretty quick.
Curious for your results.
TH: What happened at the ortho?Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackhead
*pulling for ya*
2 with 2 acl's. Ah fuk it, thrash 'em if ya got 'em.
did you have repairs or removals?Quote:
Originally Posted by ruhiks
i think i posted this in another thread, but the success rate of meniscus repairs is higher for those who did it at the same time they injured their ACL.
Well, I woke up after night shift and made an appointment for friday. But I work in an ER, and ran across the ortho doc here tonight. He did his exam and gave me the "you likely have a medial meniscus tear". He wrote the Rx for the MRI, which I will call for scheduling tomorrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by upallnight
Little bugger of a knee is pretty sore today. Pretty well gimped. Can't walk for shit, as I can't extend my leg fully.
So fuck it, if it's a flapper, I'll do what it takes to get it right. It sucks, but worse things could happen. I guess if I'm gimped for a while I'll have plenty of time to not jones on the early season rock gardens with dustings of snow, and editing time will be plentiful.
well, i'm still hoping for the best for you. even with my tear/repair, i felt strong enough that i would want to get back on snow within 4 months post-op...which puts you at (only) mid-january.
Went to my ortho last Thursday. He took x-rays and moved the knee around. He says everything actually looks pretty good so far as bone structure and ligament tension goes; no surface wearing or other issues like that. However, he thinks the medial meniscus is probably torn and wants me to get an MRI. I'm scheduling that this week so, more to follow...
Shit! As I suspected, torn anterior medial meniscus. :mad: Had my MRI last night and got the call a few minutes ago. It's not reparable and will be a trim. I'm scheduling the surgery for October 20. Wierd, in 40 years of skiing, I've never had a serious injury to my legs. I don't even really know what I did to it to cause the tear. Anyone able to tell me their recovery experience from the trim? My ortho said 10 days to two weeks and I should be fine. Anyone have any other advice?
That sounds about right. I had about 7% trimmed from my knee in mid July and I walked out to the car. Day three after all meds are gone in the knee it was a little soar. After one week the swelling was still there but had no problems. Ice and massage the scar tissue a couple of times a day to break it up. After one month swelling gone and the knee was back to normal with no limitations.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldMember
The only unfortunate thing is I herniated a disc L5/s1 and have been messed up for a couple of months and cannot do strenging exercises for the legs. The disc issue is almost past and would like to get going.
Hey, thanks for the information. That sounds pretty much like I expect. I was thinking probably 3 weeks recovery. That places me to be ready when the season starts here. I don't know yet exactly how much is torn and the ortho also qualified my recovery as being "depending on what else we find in there.....". That comment kind of makes me nervous but, I have full ROM without restriction right now and the pain isn't terrible so I don't think there's anything else going on. I'm still riding my bike and have been walking a bunch. I'm just avoiding running because that does tend to hurt.
Well, tomorrow is surgery day. Saw my ortho Tuesday and he said the tear is a horizontal shear that surfaced toward the interior portion of the cartilage, which is an avascular area of the cartilage; not reparable.
He claims I can probably walk out from the day surgery clinic but to have crutches available. It's all about pain tolerance and, at first with the meds, shouldn't be too painful. Later when the meds wear off, he thinks I might want the crutches for a couple of days. Other than than, he says I should be able to run within a couple of weeks. I just want to get this over with at this point.
I just had a scope last week to clean up some old cartilage injuries. walked out of the hospital no crutches, no limp by day 3 no meds by day 4. almost 0 swelling at day 7.
you'll be fine, just remember to keep the leg elevated and ice as much as possible for the first 3-4 days. Keep some compression on too. Also be sure to start some quad sets and or straight leg raises ASAP on day 1.
Thanks Vinman. Actually, I'm kind of looking forward to this. I'll quit having this annoying pain in my knee and I get to get a bunch of sleep this weekend in between football games on the tube. Plus, it's my last bit of preparation for the ski season!
try australian knee clinic or stone clinic in SF they don´t cut but graft in regrown substance also cool NO 5 http www.drzipplius.com showed healing effects bf or http://liwa.funtigo.com or dr.s.franz@t-online.de
Hi,
I've enjoyed lurking and reading everyone's posts. i had my meniscus repaired on the 23rd of October. I was allowed to put weight on it right away. Now 16 days out it feels pretty good. i still have some swelling but the PT, ice and alleve has been helping. I noticed that i seem to be one of the only folks to have a repair but allowed to put weight on it immediately.