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I'm not your son grampa. I didn't get pissed at him until he laid into me w/o any sort of polite warning. All the shit you highlighted there are just a steam of pissed off conscience a day after it all went down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunion
And sure there is only my side of the story but there was only the two of us on that section of the slope and I passed him safely.
Sorry sonny, 2 sides to every story and then the truth of what really happened.
He may have been a jerk but you lost the war when you dropped the F-bomb.
Gramps
this is 100% correct. You need to show respect even if you where in the right. If you had sucked up to him, and appologized you probably would have settled him down and then he would have realized that maybe he overreacted. By cursing you just made matters worse and made yourself look bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by pointedem
Believe me, i used to be a huge hothead when I was younger and it is so much easier to do it the other way.
My inner Jersey-asshole wouldn't have given him my pass unless I was told to do so by a patrol head or some kind of law enforcement officer. Who the fuck is he? I could understand it if it were a clear cut case, but it seems as though you did little if anything wrong. I would definitely have refused to turn over my pass to the dickwad.
At a little ski area around here on a spring day last season I was skiing down a groomer with a pretty steep roller on, coming in with some speed, but I sucked up the compression instead of airing it. Anyway, right over the roller(where he is more or less out of sight but in the middle of the trail) is a patroller telling people to slow down. Since I stood up before the roller I spotted him and cranked a hard left hander to avoid him(which I did). In the process he got absolultley blasted with the slush wake my edges threw up. Aparently, that was enough to cost me my pass accoring to him. When he approached me about it I said "no way buddy, I didn't do anything wrong, if you wanna take my pass, we're gonna run this by your boss." He skiied away fuming and I kept my ticket.
Good 'trollers are great, but the ones that have the asshole authority complex get old real quick and can ruin the reputation of a whole squad. It's too bad for the good guys(and women) out there who are working hard to keep people safe.
Couple of years back I got my ticket clipped by a patroller who had the least professional attitude I've ever encountered. I set off down the groomer from the top of the Siberia chair reasonably quickly but making controlled turns. I overtook one person on the way down and then came to a stop by the side of the run to wait for the other skiers I was with.
This guy (in a fkn stetson) then proceeded to ski up, get in my face and stare at me for what must have been ten seconds before yelling "YOU NEARLY ENDED MY CAREER BACK THERE." This was utter bullshit - I was in control and left a good thirty feet clearance. He then proceeded to tell me that this was America not Europe and that "we have norms over here." WTF? I was embarrassed for him.
I couldn't believe this guy was getting so steamed about being overtaken. That's all it boiled down to. His stupid pride was injured that a touron blew by him. I subsequently complained to Squaw about this guy's attitude and aggressive conduct to a paying customer and received an apology from the patrol manager.
Had a cool experience with Patrol over at Alta one year. My buddy and I made our way to Supreme one March powder day and watched a couple of patrollers ski some technical lines. Seemed for 2-3 laps that we watched them from the lift and they spied us while riding.
So we get to the top and they signal us to come on over. We reluctantly slide on over and they say, "Wanna ski some really cool stuff?" We shrug our shoulders and manage a "sounds good" and follow them down to a closed zone where the first troller lifts the rope and signals us to follow the second guy as he ducks under. "Membership has it's privaleges" he says as I slide on by. He lead us to a sweet line through a cliff band and a nice 30' huck to ultra deep untracked below. After punching both they gave us a click of the poles and told us to have a nice day. Coolest experience with trollers ever. I'll not soon forget that day.
did you see his name tag?Quote:
Originally Posted by powderhound
No. I know it wasn't Gates, he's a good guy. Some older dude with a mustache. Maybe it was a National, I hear they can be nuts, but he said he's been skiing there for 30 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by AltaPowderDaze
Definately are some good patrollers out there and then there are some dicks.
alright here are my stories:Quote:
Originally Posted by powderhound
the bad:
a bunch of years ago at Okemo my brother and I were bombing the groomers. early in the morning on a non holiday week day. there was no one on the hill. we were going very fast and very close to each other (we used to play games to see how close we could get). we were on the very edge of an empty trail.
on the other side of the trail was a national ski patroller, he barks out at us 'you two STOP!' we slam on the brakes, stop very quickly and both standing right next to each other. the natty comes over and gets in our faces just screaming at us. telling us we were out of control.
i told him we were skiing very fast, but were perfectly in control. the way we stopped so quickly and so precisely next to each other showed that.
he said that at the speed we were going there was no way we could have been in control.
my smartass little brother told him that just because HE would have been out of control going that fast doesnt mean we were out of control going that fast. the natty was furious and tried to pull our passes. we refused to give them to him until we spoke to his boss. my brother was an instructor (out of uniform at the time) and managed to get things straightened out for us. he did have to apologize to the natty and promise to slow down though.
the good:
At big sky, during free ski week there were only a few trails and just the ramcharger chair open. I was skiing the groomer under the lift, noticed the trail was empty below me. not a soul on it for a couple hundred yards. It was early season and i started opening it up, huge super g turns the rest of the way down. got to the bottom and a troller stopped me. he said 'I know you were under control and the trail was empty, but please slow it down. there are plenty of idiots on the chair lift who are going to see you doing that and try it themselves.' i agreed and throttled it back for the rest of the day.
Growing up in the east where most patrollers are nationals, i had more than my share of run ins with them. since i moved west, i have found that pro patrollers are much more laid back and not as likely to be on the power trip. There are some to be sure, but it seems like most nationals are into being cops on the hill with the ability to be judge and jury.
What I have learned here on this thread:
Dropping the F-bomb at a patroller = Naughty naughty naughty.
People don't like Lawyers, Cops, or Ski Patrollers... until they really need one.
Definately are some good patrollers out there and then there are some dicks.
Definately are some good locals out there and then there are some dicks.:fm:
Exactly, no fucking respect.:nonono2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
Ego + unfair situation + authority figures = rudeness (the quit-picking-on-me-syndrome)
Being a high school teacher and being on the "other side"...No matter how hard it is to suck in the pride vs authority, politeness always helps. Most times, my on-the-spot discipline decisions revolve around the verbal attitude of the student I am addressing. If a student does not agree with my discipline, they have the right (and I admit sometimes I am wrong)...but as soon as they tell me to Fuck off, they are instantly put into the wrong.
Decisions from the side of authority are not always going to be agreed with (usually never are), and sometimes they truly are unfair and rashly created, but...THE DECISION DOES NOT MAKE THE PERSON, EMPLOYEE, OR LARGER GROUP STEREOTYPE-ABLE.
I say the next time you see any of the ski patrol at the Bird, be sure to tell them how great a job they have done this season doing their vastly unappreciated jobs, including the work that is often unpopular.
I know how much this feeling of appreciation can mean...
peace,
D.
You can add high school teachers to that list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
Teachers are fine... guidance counselors are different ball of wax.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodhi
12345678 12345678 12345678 just keep counting, it will be over soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by cj001f
sounds like someone went to a catholic school.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Cop
yeah, and trust me, your mother was no saint.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by cj001f
Pro Patrolled for three years and even from the inside I would have to agree with these points that have been generally made:
- National/weekened warrior types are more likely to be overzealous (and many of them ski at the same resort for 30 years) in terms of power tripping, wearing of unnecessary gear, etc. Which is not to say that I didn't work with some great weekend nationals.
- You can get a douchbag on pro patrol, but they generally get berated and heckled by their own if they have a tendency towards being aggro. Most patrollers don't want to deal with you if at all possible, be it in an accident, a closed area or an altercation. They would rather be skiing or working with ther partners out on the hill somewhere.
- The tone that a patrol director sets goes an awful long way in how a moutain is run.
I only got in three pass clipping situations in three years, the last one was great. Park City hosted multiple olympic events. In preperation for that they closed pretty much the entire king kong side of the mountain (about 6 groomers) about two weeks prior to the games for race training. On the day that that area is closing the race crew is out setting fences and roping off runs. A group of three kids gets in an altercation with the race crew head over the newly closed areas...defaulting to "fuck you nazi" from the get go. This happens at the top of the lift about 20 yards from the patrol shack. Out I come to try to broker some peace. Race guy wants them "off the mountain"...he is fired up as one might imagine. I take the kids aside and with the intention of clipping a corner and sending them on their way as a warning, ask to see their passes. We are instantly back to "fuck you nazi" mode which very few people take kindly to, me included. At this point they decide that the best thing to do is have a high speed chase, so off we go down into a dead end only exit is by lift area. They apparently don't know that we have radios and they will have to ride a lift to escape, but i am happy to have the entertainment of tailing them down to the lift and then calling up what chair # they are on. After they get a ride down to the bottom on a snowmobile, it turns out that they had either a stolen pass or were borrowing a friends or something, so given the stellar attitude the mt. manager brings in the po po regarding theft of services.
Long ass story...moral = most patrollers are solid and don't want to deal with bullshit anymore than you do, but sounds to me like you were on the receiving end of one of the douches.
pegging dudes definitely isn't saintly ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Cop
So pde20, ya worked for Billy Gray eh?
I did, and enjoyed every minute of it.:D What about you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunion
FWIW, I've skied that same line a hundred times and that rollover is definitely sketchy blind.
I worry about it every time I cruise through there at speed, but try to make a small turn or something to catch as much a glance of it as possible before lofting over that roll. That said I know plenty of people, including myself, who come cruising through that line all the time. Overall, getting you pass pulled over it sounds bunk to me.
In context of the usual bullshit happening on the lower half of the mountain at the Bird, your move seems pretty tame. The patroller probably dealt with too many collisions, hit-and-runs, and out-of-control beaters earlier in the day and wanted to take it out on somebody. It's like highway patrol trying to get their quota at the end of the month by ticketing for tinted windows or a busted headlight or some shit like that.
That's certainly possible. Or maybe when he was skiing down a minute or 2 before he saw a 10 year old kid ski past there, and though about what woulda happened if that kid had been there a minute later.Quote:
Originally Posted by tradygirl
from 84/85 to 90/91. You probably saw my name on one of the Awards in the summit station and heard my name in reference to losing my end of the season bonus for several years running for such acts as skiing Daley Bowls when McConkeys was closed or throwing butter and creamers at the end of the season banquet and defending my actions with such lame excuses as, "cmon.... butter is NOT food!"
I run into Billy about once every 3-5 years. He is still getting bigger.
Now that I am a Patrol Director I can see things from his view much more clearly.
Part of maturing I guess, I am still the most immature 48 year old I know.
I suppose that might be true for some patrollers but in my case I became a patroller in High School in part to give back to the sport. I raced juniors, high school, and college and partolled when I wasn't running gates. Now 20 some years later, I'm still out there when I'm not running my company. Frankly it would be cheaper to buy a family pass for myself, wife, and kids(Ebay has better deals than I can get on pro-form for equipment) but for some reason I feel good about picking smartass' like yourself off the mountain when you get injured. Again, giving back to a sport that gave so much to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by corralvino
As for pulling passes, I can't remember the last one I took, might have been the drunk guy I found in the parking lot with his skis on looking for the lift.
Good Luck,
Jay
:biggrin: Billy Gray is skinny as rail, no carbs for that boy, and yes the hyperactive patroller gets gooned indeed, as they should:FIREdevil
Quick question, how much does the typical big mountain(alta, bird, mammoth, squaw, alpine....) patrol director make? I realize this takes years to get to, but it has always interested me.
Jackson does the corner-clipping thing. 4 clips and you are out for life.Quote:
Originally Posted by leroy jenkins
Earlier this season, I was skiing fast but not mach speed through one of our "slow-speed" zones. Dumb, yes...but it was mid-week, late in the day, not crowded, etc.
There is often a patroller stationed at a "Slow-down" sign at this spot, and I'd thought I'd gotten good at looking way ahead for the patrol presence and slowing down.
This area is flat/no rollovers or blind-spots -- it's just the confluence of a few trails.
Well, I wasn't that good because I passed a patroller who must have just left his post. I stopped at the lift to wait for my buddy and the patroller skied up to me, definitely upset but not irate.
I apologized profusely -- said "Sir, I'm sorry -- I wasn't trying to dodge you, I merely didn't hear you calling to me to stop. I have no excuse. Yes, I was going too fast", etc.
He looked at my pass but simply gave me a warning. I let him vent, listened to what he had to say (I was wrong, for sure -- there are plenty of places one CAN ski high speed on that hill...or just go BC), did not argue, and showed him respect.
It didn't cost me anything to be polite, and it definitely saved me something that day. When in doubt, why not just be polite? Even if the guy's a dick, why not still just return that with a positive attitude? You can at least put something positive into the world, and it might just save your pass (even if you were totally in-the-right to begin with).