Dear diary (race related)

running gates is for people who ski on the least coast to make boring terrain somewhat challenging:wink: . i grew up racing youth programs in VT and while it laid a foundation for decent technique, it bored the shit outta me and got me totally burnt on skiing. actually wasn't interested in skiing at all for many years after that until i moved out west. don't waste your $$$ unless you've got it to burn. you live in CO so just get out and ski as much as you can trying different shit all the time and you will get better. i think signing up for one of str8lines camps would be $$$ much better spent if you need some coaching.

Naysayers: can it! I'm doing it, and you can't talk me out of it (unless you post a report of how all ski coaches secretly fall in love with their racers and poopenhausen then before each race... that could change some things). But as I said, I just need to figure out the right program.

Indy: I would need a season pass to copper for that, right? In which case I'd be best off getting the copper/wp "colorado pass" or whatever it's called? The other question is if they tell you about what you'll be training that day. Do you do one discipline each day, and is there a set schedule for that? Or can I just show up with my slalom skis and say "I wan't to go bang some gates today"? Kind of a JONG question, but I don't mind being a JONG if you don't mind answering.

Either way a maggot has offered me some slalom gear--shinguards, etc.--for cheap, and also some atomic 9.16's (probably be cause he is the freakin' mang, thanks dude), so this thing looks like it will happen.

I'd love to get to Gordy's camp, but I still don't think I have enough of the fundamentals to benefit enough to make the $$$ worth it. 3 days of coaching from a rad pro is worth a lot, yes, but if I can get coaching for a season for about the same amount of dough, I think I'd be better off at this point in my skiing. Also, this is probably less likely to burn me out on skiing (particularly with Indy's suggestion) because it'll be one season as opposed to many.

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Originally Posted by Z

If you want to be a good racer, then race. If you wanna become a good freeskier, then spend all your time freeskiing.

I think its a stupid idea at this point.

Just my 2 cents, but do whatever is fun for you max.

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I agree with Z - i guess i'm a little too late on this but whatever...

I grew up racing and am a much better freeskier because of it. All of the coaches at Gordy's camp could tell i grew up racing from my first turns of the first day. You learn about your edges and stability in ways that you wouldn't get without gates. HOWEVER, i stopped racing 4 years ago to focus on freeskiing and i will never turn back. Racing is fun, espcially when young or when growing up on the east. But for you, you have great mountains around you and you are in college. Spend your time and money on some lessons and just ski. Racing may be fun but you spend a lot of time slipping, etc...and not a ton of time actually skiing. You will regret picking up racing when you have to miss a powder day to ski some gates....

But i guess you already decided to do it so good luck and enjoy.....oh and if any deals fall through i still got a pair of 161 Rossi Race Stock slalom sticks.....

I Love racing. And it has made me a much better freeskier just like doing more freeskiing has made me a better racer, I never train gates all day, freeski in the afternoon, and that has put me above many people who do spend all day in the gates. I suggest Loveland Race Club, As much training as you want $800 a year, great coaching staff. http://lovelandracing.com/masters.htm If You need it i can sell some slalom shin guards and pole guards and slalom skis, GS skis later in the year/summer. PM me.

you don't have to do a copper season pass, although day passes would get expensive. If you normally do the 5 mtn pass, do that, then get a few 4 paks for copper that should cover the training days, and you won't have to do a full season pass.

But what you will save from doing the eldora deal, buy the 5 mtn, copper/winter park pass and you will be set. and not have to deal with multiple 4paks.

Or loveland... Right???

Nick, does that come with a season pass? Edit: the site doesn't say.

Loveland seems like a cool place to ski, but I'll have to check on the price of the copper/wp pass. Might actually do close to $400 worth of sessions at Copper, so it might be worthwhile to do Loveland. I'd like to focus on racing particularly in early season and during dry spells so I'm not missing anything. Gotta find out which program starts earlier. That will probably be 3 days a week until the season gets going--tuesday, thursday, and fri/sat (freeski inbounds/get bc experience whichever weekend day I don't race)--which is like what, 5 weeks' worth? That's $375 worth of individual sessions.

Anyway, thanks for all the guidance, and I'm sure I'll figure out something by the time the season comes around.

Thanks for all the gear offers, guys!!! One of the beloved benefits of being a maggot.

I grew up racing and I would say I'm a better skier because of it. But then, skiing 6 days a week is going to be beneficial regardless of whether or not your are racing. Whenever I see a course I still have a pretty big urge to go bash some gates. I guess it's pavlovian at this point. I almost made red baron let me race for him in the media day at solitude this weekend.

Regardless, slalom training will make me quicker on my feet. I NEED that. I think it would probably come quicker with formal training than with just skiing a lot.

Edit: I'm young yet and I'm WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY early in my skiing career/learning curve I hope. Who's to say I can't race this season and then learn from maggots seasons thereafter (if not during)? I love skiing with people better than I am, and I'd like to do that whenever I'm not racing. This season and any other.

And Gordy... watch out for me in 07-08. Europe is on my list of "to do before college graduation", and a Straightline Europe thing could be just what I need. (If not, I'll cut class for the maggot camp FOR SURE!)

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Originally Posted by Max Gosey

Regardless, slalom training will make me quicker on my feet. I NEED that. I think it would probably come quicker with formal training than with just skiing a lot.

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Depends how you learn man, I know for a lot of people just getting out there and skiing with friends better than them helps way more than formal training. With friends you want to push yourself and learn more about yourself while yer at it. If you think you benefit more from the coach (sounds like thats what you think) then go for it, if you think you'll probably be better off with just pushing yourself and learning from the occasional fall, then do that.

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Originally Posted by Max Gosey

... I'm young yet ...

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It's so hard to tell from your posts. :D

Racing does give you, in my opinion, the best fundamentals for skiing, period. I can't go past a course without feeling nostalgic and wanting to bash gates. I'm actually hoping to run some gates next year, gotta look into whether or not there's a casual race thing at whis. I haven't skied a real course in 7 years now, goddamn...

All the best with racing man, enjoy!

Barring some serious promotion for Loveland/bashing of Copper's program, it's gonna be Copper for training. Thanks a million to Indy for the suggestion. You'll have saved me a LOOOOT of money, I do believe (and if it's of the caliber that you say--which I don't doubt--it will also be without sacrifice!). Thanks, man.

Bring it on!!!!! (Think I'll have the P40's at the mini just to go fast and get pumped for next season, AND to avoid breaking my neck jumping off something. Unless it's blower [/anti-jinx])

According to a ski coach I cliniced with, it takes 10000 repitions to develop muscle memory...so race, train,race,train.....

I have 0 regrets from racing other than I didn't take it as serious for a few years as I would have liked. 90% of the good to great skiers i ski with now have raced in the past. It is probably one of the best ways to really understand what you are doing with your body/angles/skis, etc.

$.02:
The argument's for racing sound exactly like the arguments tele-nerds trot out for leaning on low-cut soft leather boots.

IMO it is total BS. Sure it'll make you a better skier but it isn't the best path for everyone to reach their specific goals. If you want to be a racer then get into racing. If you want to be a freeskier then work on that.

Other observations:

1. 10 years of race training won't do for your skiing what just ONE spring semester spent living in the mountains will (DO IT). Take summer classes to partially make up for the lost credit hours (summer at CU is totally chill) and then you don't have to move back to LA for the summer either. Sure you might have to sell your folks hard but it doesn't have to put you behind schedule at all (LB = 1 spring off + 1BS + 1MS = 5yrs)

2. Competitive bump skiing = better for your freeskiing than gate racing

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Originally Posted by lemon boy

1. 10 years of race training won't do for your skiing what just ONE spring semester spent living in the mountains will (DO IT).

2. Competitive bump skiing = better for your freeskiing than gate racing

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I have to disagree with both of your points. Having a coach critique your technique is the fastest way to get better. As with every sport, a coach is the fastest way to improve.

Bump skiers...are really good at skiing bumps. The "turn" you make in bump skiing does not transfer well to terrain outside of a mogul field. That's not to say that bump skiers aren't good skiers outside of the moguls, however their bump skills don't transfer well to maching down steep shit. But look at the guys charging in the movies-their technique is pretty much the same as a racer.

Hey Max, doesn't CU have a club racing team associated with their A and B teams? I would recommend that route, since the Masters at Copper is going to be the Epic Ski crowd. You might have more fun with the CU folk, and the skiers will be much better.

Sorry, Lemon Boy - you wrong. Even at my advanced and decrepit age, working with race coaches this year has done more for my skiing than years of freeskiing ever did. Including making me a better freeskier.

I'm not wrong I just have a different opinion :)

Regardless, you both have focused on my dicta observations not my central point, which is:

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Sure it'll make you a better skier but it isn't the best path for everyone to reach their specific goals. If you want to be a racer then get into racing. If you want to be a freeskier then work on that.

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At this stage getting into racing is attempting to learn some applicable skills by heading not in the direction of his goal but somewhere else only somewhat related. There are plenty of avenues for instruction in the arena that Max actually wants. So many in fact that for him to take up masters racing is learning how to tele in leather boots: yeah, you do end up with bomber technique but it takes forever and is heading in a direction other than your goals. Yes, folks who grew up racing have great foundations and I'm a better skier for having learned on leather boots. Unlike the racers who're blinded by their own BS, I don't tell people to learn on floppy leather boots. Max can get good fundamentals w/o racing much faster, just like people now learn to tele way faster than on leathers.

your different opinion is wrong :biggrin:

and the real bomb is to train both. Show me the skier who can do reasonably well in 4 alpine events and moguls and I'll show you a freeskier. period.

The cool thing about where I grew up was that the citizen's DH and the pro/am mogul comp were on the same day...DH on spring ice in the morning and bumps on spring corn in the afternoon.

Dudes, what you are missing is that I want to do it ALL. There is no reason why I can't spend a shitload of time freeskiing in 07-08 (when it will probably actually be worth it because I'll have much bigger balls then, I hope). I BADLY wanted (and still want) to do a bump clinic (note to self... talk to MBSchick) to get better in that respect, and now I'm really excited about racing because I think that will give me a different set of skills that will be much better developed when I am through with this stuff. Hell, if I hadn't broken my neck, I'd probably try to get to a summer camp to work on spins and shit on tabletops. (Fuck the park). And I'll STILL probably spend some early-season days sessioning boxes all day. I want to develop my skiing from ALL sides, and I think race training IN ADDITION TO freeskiing and other kinds of training can be only beneficial.

I just don't see how race training could hurt... I would say it would only help in my opinion. And you're not gonna win me over with the "it'll be a waste of money" because $200-400 spent with a coach couldn't possibly be that. And I'm a bit frivilous anyway. :D

About the CU team: seems more cost efficient to do the Masters stuff (if I'm eligible). Besides, I can't make all the sessions for CU training. I saw their schedule, and it doesn't fit mine for the fall. Copper's training starts around Nov. 19, which is a good month before the end of semester. Plus it costs probably $500 more...

Heh. Told my mom I was doing some race training next year and she GASPED. "Huuuuuuuuuh!!!!!" "Is that less dangerous than the park, Maxi?!" Think that woman will be scared sick every time I click in from now on. (And it's cuz she loves me, I know. Bless her.)

Racing helped me work on my stance and notch up the speed, but it didn't improve my freeskiing -- putting a shitload of time @ Alta is what brought my game up.

Eh, you'll get something out of it, but $1500 worth? I doubt it.

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Originally Posted by YetiMan

your different opinion is wrong :biggrin:

and the real bomb is to train both. Show me the skier who can do reasonably well in 4 alpine events and moguls and I'll show you a freeskier. period.

The cool thing about where I grew up was that the citizen's DH and the pro/am mogul comp were on the same day...DH on spring ice in the morning and bumps on spring corn in the afternoon.

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Jay Peak?

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Originally Posted by 13

Eh, you'll get something out of it, but $1500 worth? I doubt it.

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My thoughts. But it looks like it's gonna end up costing more like $600 or $700 than $1500 (if I can train at Copper). I'm stoked for next season either way. The more I think about it, the less I care... I just want to SKI!!!

Might be nice to get back home away from mountains constantly taunting me.

What money I spend is up to me. Period.

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Originally Posted by YetiMan

your different opinion is wrong :biggrin:

and the real bomb is to train both. Show me the skier who can do reasonably well in 4 alpine events and moguls and I'll show you a freeskier. period.

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Dude I suck at moguls
Aside from giving you strong skiing fundementals I'm not seeing how wearing skinsuits and training to go fast on icey harpack with stiff gear is gonna make you a good bc skier.
Bc skiing is about snowpack/conditions asessment, avvy safety, terrain management, skinning tecnique, beacon drills ,etc
Oh yeah and finding a shredin the pow.
You know The POWDER.

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Originally Posted by INDY GS

Oh, and any chimp can become Level 1.

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I heard of one guy that didn't make level one because he simply refused to bend his knees.

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Originally Posted by nick > jesus

If You need it i can sell some slalom shin guards and pole guards and slalom skis, GS skis later in the year/summer. PM me.

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I'll be looking for GS skis around that time.

Keystone has Wednesday night leagues made up of four man teams. When the time comes next season, I'll post more info about it. It's a GS course, but with a little of the edge taken off the pitch - that's what I hear anyway. I'm gonna race with other instructors and hopefully beat lift ops. :D

As for why I want to race, I think it'll be a ton of fun...

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Originally Posted by SheRa

I heard of one guy that didn't make level one because he simply refused to bend his knees.

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Chimps, zey have zee bendy knees, no.

Let me rephrase the first post. Any chimp who can listen can pass a level 1.

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Originally Posted by INDY GS

Chimps, zey have zee bendy knees, no.

Let me rephrase the first post. Any chimp who can listen can pass a level 1.

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Yeah, it was more of a clinic than anything else when I did it this year. I did get scored on a lot of teaching techniques and on my freeskiing on groomers and a very easy bump run. I went to ski powder instead of training and did fine. Here's what my examiner had to say in his comments:

Thanks for making good changes! Continue to develop a feel for releasing the edge of your downhill ski with tipping rather than twisting, especially at the low speed maneuvers. Great job moving downhill.

He really taught me something about turn initiation. I could tell that he really liked my overall stance and the way I stayed in the fall line, especially on the bump run. But he didn't even look at pole plants, which I ain't got. I scored almost perfect in my carved turns and my fall line sideslip and the bump run, but I didn't do well in the wedge turns. Honestly it is hard to do they way they want and I don't make a lot of wedge turns on my own time ;) but I can practice while I'm teaching...

They are putting the hammer down on level twos. I just had a bunch of friends go through it and it was tough, both the skiing and the teaching analysis, and plenty of people didn't make it. You can't succeed if you don't train and study. I'm gonna get after that next season.

Well in reference to the program, it's $350 for 10 sessions and $40 for each session after that (or $500 for 20 and then $175 for a pass).

I'm willing to drop that kind of coin... Only problem is being late after o-chem on wed/fri. And the best part is I can choose a morning OR afternoon session (or both) on both sunday AND saturday. So if I want to do BP DP and then go race in the afternoon when the pow is douched at copper, that's not a problem.

The way it stands now, if I can manage the "eat, sleep (some), ski, study, class" routine, I'm looking at 6 days a week on snow. Tuesday and Thursday morning, Wednesday and Friday afternoon, and all day Saturday and Sunday. [anti-jinx]

I'm excited. I think it will be a lot of fun, and I hope to learn a lot. The program that is. And freeskiing! :D

But I'm wondering if I'll ever learn how to rail in the snow going slow... i always tend to fall over doing that. Maybe racing (going fast) will teach me how to crawl too. ;)

(Going slow is for traverses. Only reason to learn to do it right is to avoid falling over and looking like a moron/slowing down a group.)

As with most things, I agree with LB.

This is a colossal waste of time and money. Just go skiing for fucks sake.

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Originally Posted by homerjay

As with most things, I agree with LB.

This is a colossal waste of time and money. Just go skiing for fucks sake.

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Absofucking lootly. And get a snowboard cause this shits about the pow pow and the pow pow is about a fat ride, Fuck everything else, cept 2 day old crust softening at noon, cause thats money.