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They are on to something about the current graphics - I've been accosted by teens and young twenty somethings (male) everywhere I've gone with the 179's. All my friends now in Utah are insanely jealous and want a pair.
Pat - I need a rep number. I ain't kidding. I could have sold 5-6 pairs today.
Thanks for the kind words. Actually, I thought about following you guys out to the Noids (that's where you were going right?), but I'd already been out there. Not sure if you remember, but I was headed out to the Tail. I noticed you guys had a dude on a board too, and I know how hard it is to get the goods of the Tail on a board, so I didn't want to tempt ya' too much 'cause I know I could've talked you into it, but I'm sure you would've lost your buddy in the process. Needless to say, the first run was untouched from the ridge to the race tracks at the bottom, and the second and third were almost as good. :fm:Quote:
Originally Posted by team ftb
I probably won't make it up again until after finals - May 10th or something.
As to letting you fondle my old lady: If I had an old lady, I wouldn't let you fondle her, which may be part of the reason I don't have an old lady. This way we can both fondle whoever the hell we want.:D
That may have less to do with the skis and more to do with the rider. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by bklyntrayc
Actually, we'd love to make about five more models and slay the world with maggot magic, stebed. Please feel free to drop by to chat if you ever feel you'd like to be part of the effort. We won't deny that we could use all the help we can get.Quote:
Originally Posted by stebed
Trust me, we want to make great skis and money. If we make lots of money it's because we're making a great product. However, we're looking down the road and have always known that financial success was a long shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by stebed
We have always relied upon the input of our customers, including the design of our topsheets. Lots of people like our topsheets and some don't. I believe that if we try to please everyone then we're sure to please no one.
Aesthetically, I agree with your perspective: simple, clean, elegant. However, if you're a small company and you want people to notice your product it's nice to stand out. Baby blue and kiwi green skis get people in the lift line tripping over each other to get a peek and ask questions. Some people might not like what they see but at least they looked.
Thanks for your input.
2-planks is dead on about the design. i, personally, may not love it, but it certainly doesn't mean that i don't notice it. they stick out, they get people talking and if people are talking, they'll hear the great story that is the skis and that's behind these skis.
stebed if you have the marketing savvy and credentials to back them up then great! Now we're talking.
But you knew the Summit was on, you knew Splat was there. Maybe I missed it but did you make the effort to look up Splat and let him know this face to face? Maybe some market research, maybe some branding?
Talk is cheap stebed. Implementation is everything. Entrepreneurs and businesspeople know that.
I've skied on my 188 softs for two days now, and I bet I've had AT LEAST 10 people tell me how sweet they look - ranging in age from 15 to 60 (a guess). I even had a guy walk all the way across the street to ask me about them.
Whether or not they're the prettiest skis on the market, I've put close to 90 days on my 188's at Alta this year, and I don't think i've gone a single day without hearing people talking about them near me, mentioning the Powder article earlier this year, whispering "whoa, what're those", or straight up asking me about them. Unique is good; it gets noticed. If you made these skis black and but "BRO" on the tails, people would laugh at the dumb sticker you put over "volkl" on your gotamas.
Splat + PMGEAR, keep doing your thing. Personally, I can't wait for the chance to buy the 179s, and the 193 Kill Maggots, and the Maggotulas after that. stebed, if you want bros that don't look like bros, go ahead and paint them. Or better yet, submit your design to the board for use in a future PMgear model.
SBDT - Yea having a guy w/a board made the traverses slower. So while it was fresh we stuck to Hangmans, signline etc. Things we could drop into quick. Sorry I missed some runs with you on the Tail. Would love to hook up next time. Sorry to see the books will keep you away til after the 10th. I'm up there most weekends so let me know and we can log some turns together. Best of luck w/the exams.
Regarding the Bro colors. hey its personal. I like brunettes while other guys like blondes. Simple and elegent is a safe bet to most audience acceptance.
Just a quick note to those of you waitng - just got a shipment of 179s and some 188s this am and I'll be turning them around to you all. More on the way...
Stebed is right.
So is Splat.
Topsheet design does matter. Bros won't be available for long if they don't sell to more than just maggots. Reminds of mountain bikers that get all pissy when they see novs (nov = jong) riding $4000 turner's on the bike path, because the product isn't boutique anymore. Yeah, well guess who pays for the scale to make Turner's (and PMGear's) business sustainable?
So in reality it doesn't matter at all if anyone on this board likes the graphics... you all would buy the skis anyway, because they're great fucking skis. What really matters is whether the superficial douchebags in Aspen will buy them to help sustain your habit.
Simple solution for you Bro graphics haters:
Wood topsheets.
Seems to work for Iggy, Scottybob, Capital, etc.
Next time you guys do a pressing, make maybe 25% of them with wood tops with a simple Bro/PMgear logo. Charge an extra $100 or $150.
They would prolly sell out.
Witness the excessive drool generated by a new pair of iggys.
I personally think the original monochrome Nordicas (when they first bought Kastle) are the best looking skis ever made - the original bright green, flat red, and flat black ultrawaves... but it doesn't really matter what I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Core Shot
I had a conversation with the head of a major ski company on why they don't enter the snowboard market - because he said his company didn't know how to market to kids... "all kids care about is graphics and it has nothing to do with the quality of the board." The whole time I was thinking to myself, ah the irony, because the ski market is exactly the same it's just that this company's designers DID know how to make a product visually appealing to adults.
PM Gear is at a turning point about now. We have been hosed by maufacturers two years in a row. The skis have cost us more than what we're selling them for, making three consecutive years of losing money - not much, but enough, and it has hampered the growth we have wanted to attain to get to the places people think we should be. Only because we think we should be there, too. But if it was easy, everybody would do it. ;)
We are looking at going to China, which we don't want to do. At the same time, we have the opportunity to buy a press and gain more control over our destiny by making our own prototypes and lines of skis better than our current and past maufacturers have done. We have some people who want to come on board and help us attain these goals and we'll be bustin a move soon, as working on the skis all winter is a real fukkin drag. If things go right, we'll have a good stock of boards come September and can operate less on the edge of order to shipping and just be shipping when the snow flies. Then I can get back to my regular schedule of skiing, skiing, skiing (and working at night).
dude you need to go live on your own with a sack of rice and a .22 cal in an old bus in the Alaskan bush, dig?Quote:
Originally Posted by stebed
people will buy a quality product even if it looks like yo mammy's nethers. style cues from The OC may be your life bible, but jack, there's a whole lot more to life than folding papers in your wallet or bank account.
oh and thanks for letting us know you're "semi-retired at 27" although I think you misspelled the post-hyphen part of the contraction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by splat
179 Softs included? Although all these comments about how soft the 179 stiffs are is getting me worried about using the softs for BC, maybe I should be going with the stiffs, Any comparison on the softs, ie are they Carbon Surf Soft or what?
ee - I've seen you, I've seen photos of you skiing. You can handle the stiffs, trust me. The softs start getting made this week and that puts them two weeks out. If you want the skis faster, go stiff, eldo.Quote:
Originally Posted by eldereldo
Heh... If nothing else, this thread is proof that the topsheets keep people talking. Anyway, here's my final review. Hopefully my comments on these can be focused on TRs from now on!
DAY 3: The Village
To gauge the 179 Stiffs in a wide range of conditions, I brought the the bros to Teton Village for testing. For this, it turned out to be the perfect day. Conditions ran the gamut from knee deep pow to icy, and I was able to experiment on all aspects and pitches, and even a little in the air. Though I didn't run into BrklnTrayc on her 179's or get asked for change, I and my dynafits did manage to get a lot of funny looks from tourons in lift line...
In the pow, they performed as before, though maybe a little better as I've started to develop a sense of the balance they require. (Going from a long ski to a short ski can expose some intersting things about your skiing...) I was able to power through cut up pow nicely, and found that the ski's light weight means that it's easier to bounce airborne in turns, lots of fun in pow pillows. In the steeps (Alta chutes) they were great, quick to turn, easy to hop-turn when neccessary, good edge hold, etc.
When airing, I found the tails to be very soft: the ski has a very round flex vs. the medium shovel/stiff tail I'm used to. Any attempt to stay back-seat to avoid going over the front resulted in the tails flexing out from underneath me. The soft tails were also apparent if I got back seat (trying to scrub speed, etc.) As an earlier poster noted, it's forcing me to ski better, land more balanced etc. (And no, these definately aren't my go-to hucking ski. It's just nice to know how it's going to perform if you need to...)
Given this experience, I was a little dubious of how they'd perform on hardpack. Here, I was in for a surprise. Apparently the stiffness is through the body of the ski, and so on the hardpacked groomers (icy in spots) the skis just railed GS turns. They're definately not too quick edge to edge (combination of width underfoot and low rise on dynafit bindings) but they would lock into a turn and just rail. I spent the whole run with a huge grin on my face, panting from trying to keep up with the ski. For a ski that skis so small in pow, it runs really long on the groomers. I had a hard time beleiving it was the same ski.
In the end, I'm very happy with its eccentricity. Personally I could use a stiffer tail to have something to push against when I get in the back or for landing airs, but the combination of extreme light weight, quickness in pow/trees and long arc on hardpack more than make up for its not compensating for my weaknesses. For someone lighter than me, this could definately be a quiver of one. For bigger guys and gals, it's a great touring ski that can be fun on piste.
And with that, I'm going to stop writing about this ski. Waist deep TRs to come...
i say buy the press if you can. you already make a very good product that people want, a press will give you the ability to improve rapidly on the current models and prototype new ones much faster!Quote:
Originally Posted by splat
just my ¢2, which i'm sure you don't need, having already figured this out :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by splat
OK, I'm convinced, send me the stiffs (not to mention I hate waiting)
Will do, eldo. The factory is in full swing now and I've shipped a shitload of stiffs in the last week and I have a steady stream arriving each week. 179 softs are getting pressed starting tomorrow and 188s are getting knocked out in their own press as well. So everything should be shipped out within 10 days.
I'm seeing references to an initial grind and lots of wax for the 179 stiff bros. A search turns up alot of information on the factory tune (or lack thereof) on last year's initial run of 188s, but nothing in the way of official recommendation on the tuning of this year's models in general, and the 179s specifically. My 179s just arrived yesterday (thanks splat!), and I'm wondering what I should do in the way of an initial tune. The bases feel, hmmm... 'rougher' than my memory of some other recent purchases, and I don't see a discernible structure pattern like I had on my Mantra bases.
So, what's a happy new bro owner to do?
1. Light belt grind to open up pores?
2. Stone grind to impart some structure?
3. Just wax?
I also haven't seen any reports on this year's factory angles, are they 0/0 like last year? I was going to go with the 1/2 base/side bevel that I use on my other skis, but again, didn't know if there is a PMGear official recommendation to consider.
Finally, my search also turns up reports of detuning tips and tails. I've stopped detuning my shaped skis, and I don't notice them being particularly hooky. How far back (if at all) are people detuning their 179 Bros?
They come with zero factory tune. You need a full tune (belt, stone, edge and base bevel to 1/1, and tons of wax). Will run ~$50-65 at most shops, and is pretty much mandatory. Less if you bring a six pack to a shop that'll be psyched just to see a pair of bros.Quote:
Originally Posted by mday
Quote:
Originally Posted by flip
???
where do you get tunes???
on mtn in aspen???
a quality tune in these parts is 30-45ish.
pretty sure at only ski shop near me...
basic tune is $25
next tune is $50
next one up is $65
i think.....
but yeah. fucking ridiculous
We'd have to charge another $50 to sell them tuned. As a one-man ski company, overseeing everything from production to shipping is [no, I'm not complaining...wait, yes, I am], I just don't have the time.
But the tune bevel can be from 0.5 to1 on base, 2 on side. I recommend anyone buying bindings to ask the shop if they'll give you a deal on a tune (yes, they'll whine loudly later, but that's after they agreed to do it). The factory does not stone them for us. We can't compare to Atomic, so we won't try.
No detune needed on the 179's.
Enjoy!
Kind of what I thought after reading last year's threads and looking at them with my semi-trained eye, but thanks for the confirmation. Off to the search function to find a shop in Truckee or Mammoth (not sure where I'll be next) worthy of mounting my Freerides and tuning these.Quote:
Originally Posted by splat
Got my 179's today.
Thanks
Dave at Bobos in Reno has the most hands-on experience with Bros and nothing but solid reviews for mounts on other skis by Reno locals. He won't bitch and does rock-solid work cause he has Bros, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by mday
So this is the line for us heavy 190lb folks making sissy turns all over the place?Quote:
I have reset the boot centerline at 993 mm from center of tip (latch hung over tip) straight back, no bends in tape, not conforming to curve of tip. .
I'll write a report on them sunday night. Will be mounting a pair tonight.
I did a special sissy line for you at about 994.5 mm, TH.
You are now good for the 2,000 foot huck.
I'm amazed they made it there already. DHL used to be 8 days from Reno to SLC. Nice to see them ramping up.
Yeah, they are in a yellow truck, in SLC, should be on the door step tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by splat
Thanks again for "Sissy Dimension Mounting Line".
Centerline on mine is measured at 99.5 cm... --is this the "reset" position? (or is my tape slack).Quote:
Originally Posted by splat
Also, on telemarktips.com, the suggestion based on the 188s is to mount with teleboot midsole 1cm behind the line--does this apply to the 179s too?
Arild - running on gut, I bumped it out from 39 inches (990.6 mm) to 39-1/8 inches (994.92 mm), a 4.3 mm move back. I was aiming for 994.5. I don't tele, but the Ttips guys seem to know what's up for tele mounts. The guy I had you contact got his info from TeleRob, and Rob knows his stuff.
ok, that's my ski.
could you PM me telerob's e-mail?
what about the "very stiffs", are the tails getting soft reviews also. Splat, after much deliberation (& believe me, I've had time since I'm 2 monthes into ACL rehab) I've decided to make the Bros my first handmade ski. I was going to wait till next year for the new models, but all this talk about "no profits" scares me! Should I buy now? PM Gear's website implies they are collectors items and may not be made again. If you are going to be around, what's in store for next year?
and for stebed, graphics...shmraphics, you could put a picture of a grandmother on those skis and jo-public would buy it if the right people are riding them. Think back to how many ugly things you bought because it was the new hottness!
Smoke em if ya got em.
The future is uncertain.
There will be a few pair made with maple stringers towards the end.
I expect them to be quite stiff(er).
The price could go up next year.
Live now. Now is good.
TH - md9 just got his, so yours should be hitting the door about.......................NOW!
I must say I'm pretty stoked to take these babies for a ride. They look solid. I'm a soft ski kind of guy so these things feel awesome to me. I've got my binders. I'm going to wax them a couple of times tomorrow and then drop them off to be mounted. :D I'll post my thoughts after a day of skiing.
Have them ground on the stone, too, md.
Gotta do it to ski propa.