Say no to big brother monitoring our travels
:D :D :D :D :D :D
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Say no to big brother monitoring our travels
:D :D :D :D :D :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
What about the summer when peak traffic back to Denver is basically all day Sunday from noonish to well past sun set. There is all most no room left to spread out the volume that currently exists never mind the volume that will exist in 5 - 10 years.
I think you already answered your own question Lurch. The toll runs between 11am and 8pm on summer sundays.
Or whatever.
It's not that hard. Study the traffic, and disincent the peaks, however long or broad they are. Either people will change behavior, or you will raise money to build mass transit of one kind or another, which will help alleviate the long term problem. Even better if you get both.
Basically, it's the same issue that the fiber and telecom companies deal with. As homer pointed out, ROW is hugely expensive, and as Board points out, we're using up a precious natural resource by plowing concrete through the place. So, short term, give a strong financial disincentive modulated against the peaks, that should help for the next three to five years, and long term, use that money to reduce the cost of increasing capacity on the already laid fiber lines, ie, mass transit over the existing route. Train, busses, whatever.
My point was that there will be to much traffic to spread out in the summer and the only option will be for people not to travel I70 at all. A $15 toll is not near the burden of the all day traffic jam that already exists in the summer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
No, 285 between Denver and BV is astronomically better than I-70. It might still suck, but there really is no comparison. It will, of course, get worse as time goes on if we don't do something...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurch
Everybody moves here for the lifestyle. Eventually, when the place doubles in size over the next decade, the lifestyle won't be so good unless something changes, and this is a perfect example of why.
Why do you assume everyone has to travel on Sunday (for instance)? Perhaps the culture will change enough so that many employers in this area will offer Tue-Sat weeks, or Sun-Thur weeks, or 9 day/2 week, or 4x10s, or any number of other things.
This is a sociological system, not a mechanical one; it CAN be affected by individual decision factors such as personal cost. There are no rules other than the ones we accept and impose on ourselves.
Good policy finds ways to influence individual behavior in a manner that is positive for the majority of society and does not overly adversely affect any one interest or minority group. I agree, this doesn't alleviate the 20 year bandwith problem, but it can be made to help with the 5 year problem, it can help pay for the 20 year problem, and if something isn't implemented NOW, the system may go beyond recovery.
Fine, so I haven't calibrated the system yet. I mean, Cornhole and I only just came up with the details in one car ride.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurch
How about a $50 toll? A $100 toll?
EDIT: The details are unimportant, its the idea that is. I have no doubt that the right toll structure could be created, per cj's post below.
And see my last, regarding the basic rules of this game.
Let's not make so many assumptions about how things have to work.
We have a difficult problem, we need to think more broadly about how to solve it.
Welcome to life in a big city.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurch
Why not a flexible toll system - signage along the highway to announce the current toll cost. Or a progressive toll - 4 drives a month free, escalating fees afterwards.
This discussion is great and all, but I think the process is far enough along where CDOT has selected their preferred alternative and it's selective widening and a guided busway. Idaho Springs, when widened, will probably go 'stacked' like Glenwood Canyon.
Busway is preferred over rail because the buses can get off the busway and travel on roads to Breckenridge, for example, more versatile and less expensive than trains or monorails!
Yup. It's a done decision until the next round, as I've heard it.
But I still think it's most short-sighted one. :D
I would have voted for the monorail. MONORAIL!!!! ;)
PAGE TOP SUCKAS!
Broader thinking:
Aligned carways where one tire is guided through a groove or something and once you sign onto the CW your car can only travel at a max speed but the speed is always maintained with limited exit zones.
Car barges, similar to a ferry but runs on a track and spills off a load of 50 vehicles at predetermined stops
Economic collapse (oil bowl II) in the metro area leading to exodus
Personal transport pods travelling in a pneumatic tube each one large enough for two people + gear + skis with depots at each major resort and intersection with bussing from each node
LOL. Nice work.
I like the pods, but let's go the other way. Why make them discrete? How about a single high speed continous people mover. You know, like a really long, fast moving sidewalk.
people are in no way smart enough to get on such a device.
Additionally, perhaps you've never watched little kids on a magic carpet but it is flat hilarious when that thing comes jerking to a stop and literally ever single little kid falls
so we instead put them behind the controls of two-ton pieces of metal and let them do whatever they want.
exactly! And mine is closer to 4 tons thanks :D
Does any one know what the benefits of a guided busway are over a dedicated bus lane w/o guides? The sites I've found talk about how they are more versatile then trains etc. but don’t say why the bus needs guides.
a guided busway can then go one meeelion miles per hour.
You start imposing tolls and you start shutting out low income and other financially disadvantaged people. Now they can't enjoy the mountains but the guy making a zillion dollars driving his range rover can drive up and down at will. This just makes it even more economically unequal than it already is. The mountains are theirs also and no matter what income you make it should not be made harder to unwind if that is what you want to do.
NIMBY.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurch
NIMBY.......
NIMBY......
I already ran from this once.......p-l-e-a-s-e, noooooooo...
I vote 8 lanes ea-way on the N side.... Hey, what do you know, there's a perfect place for newer, bigger & better highways. - It's even designated as a national thrash zone: RMNP! right down the center.
Guided busways require substantially less lane width than normal bus lanes, i.e., it only needs to be as wide as a bus. This is especially critical on horizontal curves and areas where ROW width is limited (I-70). One could assume that they'd be safer and less susceptible to adverse weather as well as less susceptible to misuse by other people. If it were a non-guided bus lane, there'd be escalades galore poaching it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurch
You're absolutely right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mybad!
We should make the toll dependant on each person's income.
To each as they require, from each as they can contribute.
I like your thinking comrade.
I also had the idea- which could be added to the existing guided busway-- of modular busses. Each one is drivable as is, but could hook together train style for true mass transit.
Then cars just detach to go to Winter park, or Breck, or whatever.
This is a really damn good idea, by the way.
MyBad-
Perhaps, comrade, you've already given your car to the low-income family down the block? In that case, you'll not need to worry about the tolls.
Thanks for your contribution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornholio
The problem I see in that is that you have to pay drivers to sit in the following buses and basically do nothing. Maybe they can be paid a lower amount during those times? There is also the cost of the added technology to make the buses attachable and controllable from a lead bus. Will you make up those costs in fuel efficacy and higher throuhput?
What if the local modular drivers stay local? So, you have one long haul driver per bus-train who starts in Morrison and goes to Eagle or Glenwood or whatever and back, and you have many local bus drivers who pick up their buspod at the regional stops to take it on its local route? In between regional pickups, they do laps on the local route. Everyone wins? Or, like you said, they get paid for time on the local route, but lower comp while "commuting" on the regional portion? Or some combination of the two?
EDIT: IE, just make it one integrated local/regional system. Then we're just talking about a bit of a resource allocation and crew scheduling problem, and a fleet sizing problem. Both of these issues have been well analyzed (although I can't claim they're always well executed) in the airline, transit, rail, and other industries.
In fact, one of the things you'll see happening out of the big consulting companies in the next couple years is a push on asymmetric human resource scheduling for large corporations, like an IBM, Nestle, etc, who routinely move around their people based on some combination of skill sets and needs. Think of it as the HR equiv of portfolio optimization. A litttttle bit scary, but I promise it'll be happening soon.
except for the taxpayers you two socialists!
Can you (or someone else) explain more about what a guided busway is? I mean, I more or less get the idea in a general sense based on this post, but I have never heard of it before. Are these just regular buses outfitted with something special? Do bus drivers still drive them while they are guided or is it automated? Is the bus drivetrain still moving the bus? What happens if a bus breaks down? Do these exist elsewhere, or is this proposal revolutionary?Quote:
Originally Posted by homerjay
Edit: thanks for all the "inside" information; I know it's all publicly available but all of us fucktards are too stupid or lazy to find it.
no no no LB!
You mean, except for the taxpayers AND the users. Those poor fuckers who want to actually do anything in the mountains around here would have to pay taxes AND tolls. Suckers. Ha!
Oh wait.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
http://www.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/tra...ll_it_work.htm
Adelaide, Australia .... since the mid80s. A number have started in the UK since the mid90s. Only revolutionary in that it's Americans thinking about public transport.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
Horses, wagons, Model-A's...?
I-70 just W of Silver Plume. Mt. Sniktau.
Attachment 9837
It wasn't much different than this just 35-40 years ago. A lil' blacktop on it & it was US 6.
Can we expect the same for all the other roads in another 35-40?
Not too many "Fun" ones any more. (Indy, Wolf Creek - they're all being "Super-Sized" & safety-ized)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
Ask Ogdenville or North Haverbrook how much they like theirs.
Or SeattleQuote:
Originally Posted by board
Unfortunately, this whole discussion begs the overriding question:
How (if) do we want to provide or limit people's access to certain types/areas of recreation?
Do we want sacrifice sites and use density in some areas to trade for low use hard to access areas.... or spread out medium use density.
???????????????????????????????????????????????
Where oh where shall the people live?
Lyle Lanley: Well, sir, there's nothing on earth
Like a genuine,
Bona fide,
Electrified,
Six-car
Monorail!
What'd I say?
Ned Flanders: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: What's it called?
Patty+Selma: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: That's right! Monorail!
[crowd chants `Monorail' softly and rhythmically]
Miss Hoover: I hear those things are awfully loud...
Lyle Lanley: It glides as softly as a cloud.
Apu: Is there a chance the track could bend?
Lyle Lanley: Not on your life, my Hindu friend.
Barney: What about us brain-dead slobs?
Lyle Lanley: You'll be given cushy jobs.
Abe: Were you sent here by the devil?
Lyle Lanley: No, good sir, I'm on the level.
Wiggum: The ring came off my pudding can.
Lyle Lanley: Take my pen knife, my good man.
I swear it's Springfield's only choice...
Throw up your hands and raise your voice!
All: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: What's it called?
All: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: Once again...
All: Monorail!
Marge: But Main Street's still all cracked and broken...
Bart: Sorry, Mom, the mob has spoken!
All: Monorail!
Monorail!
Monorail!
[big finish]
Monorail!
Homer: Mono... D'oh!
Easy there tiger. You've sprung the urban planning debate a bit too quickly after the mass transport discussion. People might begin to think of California...Quote:
Originally Posted by lemon boy
Quote:
Originally Posted by board
Niles seems to like his
http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/Niles.html
Modular busses! Modular busses! :yourock:
Seriously, I don't think the busway is a bad idea at all, modular or no.
I like the double-deckering of the road, of course... Glenwood canyon is a masterful example of how well this can go. Of course, that project was years late and several lottery tickets over budget.