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This is a damn good thread. Thanks for the info. Being a happy owner of about 8 Wustof classics and a single Gran Prix, I think I can come up with about 1000 higher priority things to think of spending $$$ on (like uber-fat skis, or a ham sandwich for lunch tomorrow, or a christmas present for my dog). But, hey, those Japanese knives sound sweet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arty50
Anyone know anything about the Japanese ceramic knives?
They are very sharp but their downfall is that they chip easily. You have to be careful of the cutting surface you are working with and never use them on bone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaka
Dantheman here...Quote:
Originally Posted by Arty50
Yeah, Wusthof makes a cheap line called Wusthof Gourmet or something. Definitely have to watch out for them.
And I really like Anthony Bourdain, but I'll second the comment that what he says about maintaing a German knife is BS. I lightly hone mine once or twice a week and it still glides through carrots like butter after more than a year of heavy use.
Knives are one of those things people tend to have strong opinions about. If you buy a set of Chicago Cutlery knives people will tell you those are crap and you need Henckels. Then if you buy Henckels someone else will tell you those suck compared to some other brand. It never ends!
As I have learned from this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by The AD
All I know is:
a. I cook more because of these new knives
b. I look forward to cooking more cause of these knives
c. These things are "cut your finger off without even knowing it" sweet.
It still amazes me how much knowledge the mags have about so many things. I really never thought this thread would get past day one.
d. It will probably hurt like Hell if you stick one of these knives up your ass.
Good safety tip.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viva
Didnt even read the whole thread, but global knives are amazing. try them and you wont want to use other knives again.
Yeah, one thing that has been forgotten in this thread is that the best knife is the one that you are most comfortable using.Quote:
Originally Posted by The AD
edit: This is DTM again, I can't get Liz logged out.
I actually joined the Cutco cult for a summer after high school. It was actually quite fun and I made some good money vs my other job making airplane food on the graveyard shift (worst job EVER). This was Pittsburgh PA in the late eighties and jobs for college kids were hard to come by and mostly staffed by laid off steel workers.
Every few weeks, the region manager for Cultco would hold a sales rally in an exotic location like Erie PA to remind us how incredible the product was and what a great job selling knives could be. For a recent high school grad, getting away from the family and raging with a bunch of outgoing co-eds was top shelf.
Luckily, my friends parents and parents friends had a fair amount of disposable income, so I sold more than my fair share of homemaker sets at $800 a pop, of which I kept about 25%. Not bad for an hours work.
I still use two chefs knives and the steak knives to this day and all of my old customers still rave about them. With that said, I probably wouldn't buy them today, except maybe the steaks knives and spatula spreader that Arty mentioned. I have some Henkels that I really love now, just watch out for the cheap "international" Henkels and go for the good stuff.
One of my favorites is a cheap Chicago cutlery wooden handled knife that is high carbon but with less stainless in the blade than the high end Wustof/Henckels models. It doesn't stay sharp as long as the fancy knives, but it sharpens up faster with a rod and, once sharp, cuts better than any of the others.
Then they're a good investment!Quote:
Originally Posted by warthog
Funny thing, the friend of mine that sold me the knives, he is about the nicest guy you'll ever meet. Now, he also happens to be a black guy that goes about 6'4", 270 lbs. We gave him some names of people to talk to, not even thinking about how intimidating it would be to have a guy that size you'd never met before come into your house selling knives. I remember my folks getting a few calls afterwards!
I know he did pretty well selling them. I wonder how many he sold just because people were afraid he'd eat them.
I had a friend in college who was one of the "Nigerians of Winnipeg". When we came back for our sophomore year, Olu told us what he'd done over the summer: door-to-door knife sales back home. Since Winnipeg is cold even in summer, Olu's mother made him wear a trenchcoat.
Though hearing about Cutco knife sales here helps explain Olu's adventures, my picture of him going door to door, flashing his smile and then flashing a stainless knife hasn't changed.
Henckels, Wusthof, Cutco? Fuck that. Global? Shit no. One word: Benchmade.
(although I must admit the "local craftsman" thing is way cool)
DISCLAIMER: This is just my opinion, so relax. Take it for what it's worth to you.
Okay, I've come to this site for ski maintenance instruction, but I will give my knife experience.
I have owned/used the following:
Chicago Cutlery (Used to own - US made, pre Chinese)
Calphalon (Own)
Wusthof Classic (Own)
Cutco Double D(Parents Own)
Shun (Good Friend Owns)
Chicago Cutlery:
These were pretty good for the price. I always run my knives over the steel a few times prior to every use, so there were always maintained sharp. They were never as sharp or robust as any of the others, and the hand feel/balance was pretty bad. For the money, they were not too bad through. I understand that they were bought out recently, however, and are now being produced in China. The reports are that the quality of the steel is now lower, but I don't have personal experience with this.
Calphalon:
I'm not sure what the series is called, but it is the one with a full tang/metal bolster and black handle - similar to the Wusthof Classic. These are very close to the Chicago Cutlery in steel, but have a better balance, hand feel and weight. This is last point is pretty important if you are doing a lot of cutting. You will be able to cut more precisely, faster with a well balanced knife. The whole set of 10 or so knives with a block was only like $80 at a TJ Maxx, so again, not too bad for the money.
Cutco:
These knives are interesting. If you look at the grain of the steel, I don't think they are of exceptional quality. I haven't looked under a microscope or SEM (I'm a Mat. Sci. PhD student), but there is little to no macroscopic grain to the steel. That said, they are fairly hard, but not so much as the Wusthofs or Shuns. Any knife with a serrated edge will seem to cut fairly well, while in fact you are just sawing your food. A straight edged knife does the same, however, the "saw teeth" are microscopic and made during a stone honing. Steeling these, then, just re-straightens the teeth out. As they are my parent's knives, I have not used them enough (or hard enough) to really judge them too much. The balance seems okay; I personally don't care for the hand feel, due to the shape of the handle, but to each his own. Most people who pay several hundred dollars for a set of knives will swear to them. In particular if that was a very large purchase for their individual budget, or they have not personally owned (and had the intimate use of) multiple brands.
Wusthof:
This is the set I currently own and use most often. They are very expensive. The price/performance ratio is really relative to your budget. They are undeniably good knives with fairly hard steel, good corrosion resistance, excellent balance, hand feel and weight (my opinion). Again, I steel these a couple of times before each use, so they stay very sharp always. The earlier comment about these knives being high maintenance is completely false. I cook with them nearly every day, sometimes for large groups of people. They see a fair amount of use for a home. I also expect to keep these for the rest of my life.
A note on knife maintenance:
If anything, softer carbon steel knives, such as sushi knives, require the most maintenance. This is by design as they have a low edge angle so that when they are sharpened, they are extremely sharp. However, the low angle dulls them quickly. They are typically made from softer steel then, to facilitate quicker sharpening. In a knife, there is a balance between hardness of the steel and edge angle (sharpness/durability), and maintenance. However, better steel will hold an edge longer (higher durability, less maintenance) with a lower edge angle (sharper).
Shun:
A good buddy of mine owns a few of these, and I have used them a bit. First, they are the most expensive of the ones I am discussing. So, again, price/performance ratio is dependent on your budget. To some, $150 for one knife is a pittance, to others, it's a new car. These knifes are also very good. The steel is quite hard, they are sharp (when properly maintained) and hold an edge very well. The Damascus pattern is artificial (it's not actually folded steel) but looks very cool. The balance is excellent and the handle, while simple, is very comfortable in the hand. Run these over a steel a couple of strokes each time you use them, and they will always be sharp for you.
My opinion on which knives to get:
Here is my 2 cents on the order in which to get knives, with importance on quality diminishing as you go down. The first two likely comprising 90% of your knife use and by far the most important in any set. If you only want/can afford two knives, get a Chef's and a paring knife.
Chef's knife, traditional or santoku:
6"-8" for most women and 8"-10" for most men. Get the largest that is comfortable in your hand and won't cramp you up after 15 minutes of continuous chopping/cutting. This knife is usually the work horse, with around 70% of your cutting done by it alone. Absolutely your most used/important knife.
Paring knife:
This knife is held differently, and is used for finer cutting, so get one that is comfortable and secure in your hand. Likely the second most used knife in any set.
Secondary knives (importance based on what you make and how large of set you want):
Slicer
Tomato knife (serrated)
Bread knife (serrated)
Utility knife (serrated)
Ham/salmon knife (thin, long and flexible)
Cleaver
Any others just fill in the cracks and are really based on how much you want to spend.
Here'sd my take on cutco:
My parents have owned a set for over 35 years. They have only had the need to send them in for sharpening once in that time. The knives are still razor sharp.
I have had a set for 8 years now (wedding present) and they are amazingly sharp. You do not want to have a split second of concentration lapse when using them or you will be rushing to the ER to have your finger reattached. That said, I am not crazy about their 8 inch chef's knife. The blade is simply not deep enough for good chopping without me hitting my knuckles on the chopping board.
I bought a JA Henckels Twin Cusine 7 inch santoku knife and I like it quite a bit. The hump in the handle fits my palm perfectly and it is well balanced:
http://www.cutleryandmore.com/img/7038.jpg
If I won the lottery this is the knife I'd be after (made by Tadashiro Hattori):
http://japanwoodworker.com/assets/im...ker/12.802.jpg
http://japanwoodworker.com/product.a...&dept_id=13170
Or this (made by Teruyasu Fujiwara the 4th):
http://japanwoodworker.com/assets/im...02.011.180.jpg
http://japanwoodworker.com/product.a...&dept_id=13170
This looks like the little brother of the Hattori Hanzo Sword...:DQuote:
Originally Posted by snow_slider
No shit.
My Fiancé’s father bought us the Twin Cuisine 10 piece set for Xmas. They are currently on back order, we should have them in another 2 weeks. I can't wait to give these things a trial run. I'm thinking some de-boneing and a lot of chopping will go into the meal I make that night.Quote:
Originally Posted by snow_slider
A few summers ago these people tried to drag me into their shit. I went into an interview, got a day of their brainwashing into me. Since I was a food professional before seeing these Cutco knives, I wasn't at all impressed by their product. Their knives were sharp (but not nearly as sharp as my Japanese knives), and their serrated blade was cool (even though they kept trying to tell me it wasn't a serrated blade, they were quite upset at me). And the killer - no way am I selling an inferior product to my family and friends. So I told Cutco to fuck off (of course after they wasted a day of my life).
Japanese knives are definitely where it's at (I've got a Kasumi brand chef knife, similar to Shun but more layers of folded steel and ambidextrous handle). And then theres brands like Nenox, Glestain and Hattori, which make Globals look like Safeway specials.
For a tight budget Victorinox/Forschner knives are great, but German knives are overrated.
I wonder how well your knifes cut spam... Why don't you give us a demo starting with cutting youreself!
I used to sell Cutco.. for like 3 weeks, I like the knives... better than what I would have if I didn't take the job to buy the set for like 160 bucks back in the day.
There was a Cutco booth at the OC gun show last weekend. I was not impressed.
I would also like to mention that in the three years since my previous posts in this thread, I am longer such a big fan of Shun knives (although I still use their paring knife which I feel is very nice). I'm now a hudge fan of my Kikuichi chef knife and cleaver.
For those of you interested in custom Japanese knives, check out this shit: http://japanesechefsknife.com/products.html
Funny running across a Cutco thread here in tgr of all places.
I have a Cutco story myself.
About twenty years ago I got the notion to buy my brother a nice hunting knife for christmas. This is long before the internet and websearching. About all I really had to go on at the time was the yellow pages, so I look up knives and basically all there was was Cutco Knives in the listings.
I called and was given directions to the "sales floor". It was in a medium sized city so I didn't have a real hard time getting there, but was a little confused as it looked more like someones house then a 'knife store" or some place like where you'd buy a knife.
I apprehensively rung the door bell, was let in and was descended upon by the most aggresive display of salesmanship I've ever seen outside of a Kirbey sales pitch. There were at least three salesmen pitching the superior cutting ability of their product while, what I assume to be their supervisor, smiled happily in the background.
I literally had to back out of the "sales floor" because I was unwilling to part with $80 for a pen knife.
Now granted they did look like really nice knives, but this was 20 years ago. $30 would've bought a very good Buck Knife that would've gutted a deer just as well as any Cutco pen knife.
This episode stands out as one of the most surreal episodes I've ever experienced in my 42 YO lifespan. Thanks TGR for refreshing it.
My folks have a set. They suck... The balance sucks the handles are awkward but they are sharp.
Victorinox makes decent kitchen knives, add them to the list.
I sold Cutco the summer after high school . . . was a pretty good gig back then fleecing my parents friends and friends parents for $100-$800 for knives and taking a nice cut of it. Of course this was in the mid-west in the 80's. . . before Martha, Williams and Sonoma, and all the other gourmet gentrification made it into the mainstream. Cutco was an easy sell. I wouldn't want to be pushing that stuff now.
I still get thank you's from many of these people 20 years later. Good stuff!
The straight bladed knives were nothing special, but the tomato knife (trimmer) and the steak knives were top notch. We were given other stes of steak knives as wedding presents and keep going back to the Cutcos.
My Tramontinas have served me very well for many years, at a very reasonable cost.
Knives are not rocket surgery: good steel, good balance, and a handle that fits your hand. Plenty of quality goods out there.
Bump...
You guys use a Santoku or a traditional Chef's knife? And why???
Bumping a 3 year old thread to call it out as spam. Classic.Quote:
Originally Posted by memosteve
And timely bump, I'm getting ready to outfit the kitchen in my new apartment.
I use a Shun Santoku.Quote:
Originally Posted by advres
I think the santoku does a good job of chopping and slicing. It doesn't necessarily rock as well as the chef's knife because of its tip shape, but I never really noticed. Additionally, I rarely use the front 1/3 of the chef's knife for cutting. Its thin and a long way out there. I feel that with the Santoku I use more of the blade and the shape feels pretty natural to me.
I like Shun as an easily accessible Japanese chef knife. I'd kill for a Hattori though. It has great balance and heft plus the handle feels good in my hand.
I'm sure the original spambump was deleted.Quote:
Originally Posted by orlowskij
I use a Henckels(two man) chefs knife and a Japanese vegetable knife. If you've never used a Japanese vegetable knife, you owe it to yourself to try one.Quote:
Originally Posted by advres
got a cutco "Fisherman's Solution" as a present from a client
i think most of it is pretty much worthless and gimmicky, but it's a decent blade and was probably the sharpest factory edge i've ever seen on a knife
but their multilevel marketing is the cutting edge of gag
i wish all their desperate little internet shills would cut their own throats with $4 Victorinox disposable 4" serrated vegetable knives (red handle), which are pretty much standard Alaska fisherman deck knives
Ya no what’s funny highangle, when I first met my girl friend (who is a chef) I walked in her kitchen and saw she had a Vickie of about 8’’ shaped like a chef knife, which is the 4’’ big brother, they are under $20 bucks, it’s the only knife she uses, well that and the 4’’….nothings sharper than a Vickie and when it gets dull you can sharpen it with a rock.
Dude the guy cooks for over 300 people everyday for like 30 years and you feel qualified to call his advice "total B.S." ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurch
"Once a year or depending on usage" you said it there... a chef in a New York kitchen makes more cuts in a day than you and I make in a year- no hyperbole. By the time your knife needs sharpening he's already got a new one, twice over, because the rocker has been sharpened right off and its now in the can-opener drawer.
be careful, he's a systems engineer!
my college roomate sold cutco for a summer. we ended up with a set in our kitchen. They ended up at goodwill except for the bread knife which I still have because any breadknif works great. Basically - I found them far inferior to good knives by any number of the excellent manufacturers mentioned above. They were also quite a good bit more expensive!
I still have the burly scissors and they are the best I've ever found.
you really only need two knives for cooking - a really good chef's knife or santuku, and a pairing knife. If you want to splurge get a nice carving knife and a carving fork and save it for special occasions.
just a note that I have not read the thread.
I sold them last summer because it was the only job that I could find. They are great knives, with a great warranty, but vectormarketing the company that sells them is kind of bullshit. You get either a base pay or commission, whichever is higher. I believe the office covers the base pay and my manager always tried to not pay the base pay. ALso you get 3% of people that you recruit. you have to really ask him to pay you for that. I emailed him a couple times and now just recently he sent me a $100 check, which was not waht he owed me, I am still trying to get the rest of the money (about $50 I think)
Knives are great, the warranty is amazing. My godfather's wife had the knives for 10 years, sent them in to get sharpened and they sent her brand new knives.
If anyone wants to order some, pm me. Not working there for money anymore so I will hook you up with a good deal.
Holy Fucking Shit I cant believe this thread is real. Do 5 mins of research on MLM schemes. Is been going on for a hundred years. Its never about the product its about sales and margin on product. Knives, vitamins ,beauty products, Water purifiers..the list is endless. Cutco can produce an acceptable knife for 3 bucks and sell it for $50. "Great Warranty though" Thats fucking retarded. Think...Do the fucking math. The warranty is irrelevant, it may as well be a thousand years. Replace the knife 10 times! Its still 10 times the margin of say... a pair of skis. ^^Of course they sent your godfathers wife new knives^^. Think!!! Pay some tard to sharpen knives or just send out another set of $3 knives from their 80 thousand sqr ft warehouse of knives and other irrelevent products. In fact MLM co.s usually are umbrella co's that market all sorts of shit through the same coolaid drinking sales tactics. The knives are acceptable cut fine and anyone can make Good $$$$ for a summer with this sales approach. Understand that the people who make real $$$$ long term in this biz are not selling anything.....they make real $$$ getting OTHER people to sell product to friends and family who will, inturn, then sell to their friends and family.....etc ..etc. Get it?????? So go make a $ selling cutco knives or ( insert any product). Just do yourself a fav and when asked about your last job in your first " grown up" job interview dont talk about the quality of the pruduct or virtues of Cutco as a company. Do talk about the fact that you got somebody to buy a set of knives during a face to face sales pitch. That is actually a skill and is not easy for many people. K, rant over.
Great knives(they look kinda cheesy) but yeah fuck working for them.
Thanks to the ONE PERSON who answered my bump question. Looks like I should have created a new thread so you cunts would stop throwing in your anecdotes and rants.
Yes and no...You do have more blade to work with on the santoko but less of the blade is doing the actual work. The chef's knife is rockered and designed to give you more edge travel (horizontally) which gives a more precise cut and also a release of your product, whereas a santoko is really more of a chopper using a single part of the blade; some santoko's have scalloped blades to help w/ release. You can rock a cut on santoko but much lees of the blade is used. Most people w/ chef's knives haven't got the rocking technique down and use it to chop which makes the santoko a more natural fit for them. People also like santoko's because they are thinner and made from harder steel and thus hold an edge longer when used for chopping techniques...chef's knives are a bit softer steel but will hold an edge just as long or longer when used as they were designed to be, but alot less when used to chop. Chef's knife is an excellent tool and you should spend a little time to learn to use it. It's a lot more efficient for large jobs IMO especially dicing and chiffonade.Quote:
Originally Posted by XtrPickels
check out Charlie Palmer working the front tip w/ the big blade:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POi7LQO2OyQ"]YouTube- Chef Charlie Palmer Teaches Knife Skills[/ame]