Fucked, but the boa makes it nice and tight?
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Fucked, but the boa makes it nice and tight?
Tried some on today. Nice heel pocket but would maybe need to add a shim to totally lock my heels in. Instep was a little low for my left foot. Footbeds and a heat mold and they would likely work without any additional or very minimal mods to the shell.
Boa was fine. I didn't feel any appreciable difference to buckles, but I was just flexing in a shop, not sliding on snow.
Shop told me the 26.5 was a 96mm last which I was very surprised by. It felt wider than that. I've got reasonably wide feet and almost always need 6th toe punches and I didn't get that sensation at all.
Flex felt a little softer than I expected fore and aft. Stood outside in minus five celsius for a maybe 5 mins and maybe they stiffened up a bit? I'll probably go back with my raptors to flex side-by-side and stand outside for longer to get a better gauge on the flex before pulling any triggers
Bummed to hear these feel wider than the stated ninety six. I was really hoping for a true LV boot. I wonder when they’ll become more widely available, so I can try some on. Shops in SLC that I’ve been to don’t have them. Also curious what the details on the new fischer lv boot with tech toe fittings are.
Skied it today. Boot is temp sensitive. Super damp. I love the flex. Was nervous skiing down to the lift out of the heated boot bag as they were super soft. Once it cooled down it really stiffened up. Super damp. I really enjoy the 130 even being a big boy. Came out of a Mach 1 LV which I can say is more LV overall. This cortex similar in initial fit to a Hawx Ultra. I did a slight 5th toe grind and was good to go. More to come but I quite like it so far.
Also not hard to get in with my zips.
Is the heel pocket a little deeper than a Hawk ultra? My only real issue with the Hawk is that my heel jams into the back of the plastic. It’s tolerable as a touring boot but if I skied it daily it would lead to bad heel issues.
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It’s an interesting feeling. I’m thinking it’s do to the Lower ramp angle but it feels like your heel can get super deep into the pocket without causing pain. I had that same pain in the ultra but do not get it here.Quote:
Originally Posted by altacoup
Loving these reviews, had my boot fitter punch the heel of my Hawx out after a trip to Jackson. All the side hill traverses back destroyed my haglund hahahah
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Slightly looser heel pocket than an ultra and much easier to work on. I’ve got retrocalcaneal bursitis (bad heel spur) and I can’t be in a Hawx for a second. The cortex is much friendlier but definitely still there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by K1mJ0ngTr1ll
How tight did you do up the upper cuff boa? I found the flex change very dramatic when trying to tighten the boa around my ankle.
Get the fuck out of the hawx, I wrecked my heels going down the same path you are onQuote:
Originally Posted by SkiLyft
I wouldn’t say I am cranking it but it’s snug. For sure gets stiffer the more you spin it.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBC
I know this is a Cortex thread, and I don't want to derail it, but the Hawx Ultra was/is a boot I've been looking at. I don't have any issues with my heel currently and don't want any but I'm drawn to narrow heel. I have skinny ankles, heels, and legs. Should I stay away from it?Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBC
Same. Seems to be a very common theme with the Hawx ultra. I never had heel issue before skiing that boot.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_pretzel
Depends on the shape of your heel. I feel the upper part of calcaneus before bringing out a Hawx Ultra, especially an XTD - any sort of Haglund's bumps are a potential problem, punchable on the alpine version but often not on the XTD. If your heel shape is compatible with the Ultra heel pocket, the shell has the smallest cuff circumference in the industry which is a big part of heel retention, though the Cortex also feels very snug and the S/Pro Alpha is a close second.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleBogey
I have chicken feet (separate thread). Super skinny ankle, heel, and calf, but flatter arch and wider forefoot at the met heads.
A downsized Hawx Ultra punched for my Haglund’s, big toe length, and fifth met head paired with a HV Intuition (or originally a Zipfit) works well for me.
The Hawx XTD could not be punched effectively for the Haglund’s. Had to sell them after half a season of touring in pain.
Cortex curious though, sounds like a cool boot.
I ground the heel on the cortex easily. Lots of material there.
So I finally tracked down a pair of these. I was ready to pay full retail if they were as good as hoped. I normally ski a Doberman plug with minimal work and fucking love everything about them except how cold they are and no tech fittings (I have a pair modified by CAST but wasn’t impressed by the craftsmanship nor durability of soles). I have made a Hawk ultra xtd work for touring but it’s not ideal due to known heel issue when flexed hard. I’ve also skied a recon with a bunch of added material to take up space. The forefoot of the cortex was pretty damn good, I’d probably need to take up space above my toes. The heel hold however was not going to work without heel cups or a zip fit. Add a zip fit and you’re looking at $1500 for a boot. I could see taking the leap on a pair of year old new boots. But can’t stomach dropping $1000 on a boot where you just trash the new liner in order to get a tighter fit in the heel, and some work in the toe box. If it came stock with a zip fit like the Fischer boot I would’ve bought it. Flex of the boot did seem really nice. I really need to figure out how to get grip walk on a plug Doberman with tech toe fittings.
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How was the shell check in the heel? We have had some people need a grind there to get a better fit as it is very aggressive in the shell alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by altacoup
The issue was the heel wasn’t tight enough side to side. I have this issue in Lange plug boots too, where as the Doberman is much smaller in the ankle and heel. I had plenty of room to get back into the heel pocket. Downsizing and punching for length really isn’t an option due to my instep height. I don’t mind punching and grinding to create room but ime adding material is a crutch. It’s something I’ll try on a cheaper boot. But no way I’m paying retail for a boot that needs a new five hundred dollar liner to make it skiable. Hopefully they stay in production and eventually year old stock becomes available. I do think they’ll be popular for a lot of skiers. But the heel pocket is too big for me. The fitter told me that only plug boots have a tighter pocket.
Got it well sorry they did not work out for you. But yeah they will be around a while so hopefully you can find a deal on one. We do have future plans for further liner development too so keep an eye on themQuote:
Originally Posted by altacoup
Interesting to hear the negative reviews about the Hawx Ultra. I love it, but everyone's feet are different.
I posted some of this over at NS, but I've been skiing the Cortex recently and like it. Fit isn't dialed in yet, but I see some big potential in this boot for freeride comps or if I'm pushing myself in the park.
In comparison to my Hawk Ultra, I really like the bootboard. It does a good job of absorbing impacts. The boot plastic is nice. It might be slightly stiffer than my 130 RS, but what I really like is the heft and how it interacts with the upper BOA.
I don't really care for BOA over the foot, but it does some really cool things on the cuff. It's hard for me to get that perfect tension, but when I'm there the fit is insane and the flex is so progressive and smooth. Upper BOA is a gamechanger.
Fit differences between the two for my foot are:
Cortex has a tighter heel and more of a pocket.
More square of a toe with more room vertically.
I initially thought the instep was lower, but I'm not entirely sure anymore.
I also was skiing it with a Gara LV, but I'm going back to the stock liner. My toes do not like stock liners and zipfits are superior in ankle fit, but the Gara LV will not work for me in the Cortex. The heel of the Gara LV is too chunky with my foot in it and it was causing me some problems. They are the perfect liner for my Hawx so i do not want to mess with them.
Looking at my friends Corsa, I think that'd be the perfect liner for me in the Cortex, but I'm not keen to spend another $500 on a liner at the moment.
I feel like I'm rambling at this point, but I think upper boa does make a tangible difference.
I'm hoping I can get along with the stock liner or shell out the cash for a Corsa.
If anything groundbreaking happens, I'll post.
Really excited to try the new recon double boa when they release it. The Cortex sounds great I just can’t do a LV boot unfortunately. My current recon 130 boa fits great but really want to try the double boa.
I saw this on ski talk but I think it’s a really nice way to sum up boa cuff so thought I would add it here. “I just had a great discussion with an industy and PSIA icon and he said it best and I will credit him this one time, then I am stealing it for myself because we both voiced it to clarity as we talked. "Cuff BOA to buckles is like a booster strap to a regular velco powerstrap." It is as simple as that.“
prob should have left that one on skitalk
So Atomic does it better?
Sorry, that was too easy. ;)
Does this boot have a a full width bootboard instead of the normal race boot type board that only runs under the middle of the forefoot and ends proximal to the toes?
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A full width boot board was a key design element from the start. The style of boot board used in race boots does not really allow for shock absorption as with it being so narrow you are standing on the shell in places. This is aslo a factor in why that style of boot can be so cold to wear another area we really wanted to try to improve.
What was the reason for doing away with the insert you could swap like the recon?Quote:
Originally Posted by tompietrowski
The recon boot board is still an injected part with either a soft or hard heel insert. This new boot board is a full expanded foam version so it offers increased shock absorption along the whole length of the boot board and it is also much warmer all the way along. It is heavier but in this boot that is less of an issue.
Which model is going to be closest in relative stiffness to the (newer) atomic hawx ultra 130? the 130 in the k2? I probably would just need the 130.
They will have a very different feel than the ultra and be more similar to the Redster cs. I would say try both the 130 and 120 and see which you prefer.
What about the cuff height? I'm not gonna end up with some super short cuff boot right?
No the cuff is a decent height and we also include our power plate in the front so you can adjust the height of the front of the cuff and there is a spoiler in the rear so you can adjust the rear height. Play with those too and also the adjustable tongue on the liner and you should be able to get the cuff exactly where you want it.
That heel is not gonna work for me without some work! Tried them on yesterday. Very nice feeling boot and I actually love the double BOA, but my heel spur says no and my S/Pro Alpha's already fit pretty well. Fits a bit shorter than the S/Pro's. I had about .75 finger vs 1 finger in the S/Pro. Very unscientific.
I don't think the instep is particularly low. Feels like a normal 98mm lasted modern boot minus the heel which is very fitted.
Question.
Whats the reason for going for a two.five degree ramp angle on the boot board? I see this industry push towards everything getting flatter and flatter. For example -- A lot of people like Pivots because of the decently flat ramp angle found on them. The new ATK Hy binding has apparently a zero degree ramp angle. And now this new freeride ready boot is coming with a much more flat ramp rangle of two.five degrees. I think most alpine boots are between four and five degrees. And then we have the problem that every manufacturer is probably measuring that internal ramp angle a little differently, so we have to take those numbers with a grain of salt.
I have worked pretty hard in the last few years to improve my ankle dorsiflexion to the point where this is the first year I feel like I can pressure the cuff of my boot adequately without adding heel lifts. In the past, adding heel lifts helped with opening up my ankle more, but it also raised my leg up in the boot, and as a result I didnt have a cuff that went as high on my leg as Id like (I have long tibias). Also a heel lift in certain boots will raise the heel just enough to lead to the heel bite issue that results in a lot of people developing or aggravating their heel spurs.
Anyways yeah. Im super curious about the Cortex. Room for the toes (sidebar: literally no reason for ski boots to bind your toes and start developing bunions), tight ankle and instep, and tight cuff sounds like a killer combo. But Im not sure if Ive improved my biomechanics enough to be able access the cuff appropriately with a somewhat flatter ramp angle. Hell, maybe going from four or five degrees to two.five isnt such a big deal?
So there are a few things to unpack here. The cortex has a 2.5 ramp with a 15 forward lean giving an overall net of 12.5degrees. If we look at the new race boots from atomic, the Redster/Remedy it's 4 ramp with 16 forward lean for a net of 12degres. So there is only half a degree of difference between the two despite the pretty different ramp angles.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeaHead96
Basically what we did with Cortex is take a more conventional race build like the Redster, RS, Raptor etc and rotate the whole inner last back to flatten the ramp. Why did we do this? Well this is a freeride boot not a race boot. When you build a race boot you are building it with a certain ski type and terrain in mind. Race skis are vastly different than modern freeride skis and the terrain could not be more different.
When testing with our athletes we found when using modern freeride skis, skis which are more centered, often twins and softer in the nose then a race ski, it really helped to flatten the ramp angle of the boot. You do not need or want to be pushing into the tip of a freeride skis in the same manner you do a race ski type the falter ramp allowed for a much more centered and balanced feeling on the ski. It's not huge so if you are still carving on harder terrain it's not going to throw you off but when skiing soft snow on modern skis it will give we feel an advantage over a traditional race boot.
Awesome, I appreciate the reply and explanation. I’m stoked to try them when available in the fall — especially if it has a low volume cuff, ankle, and instep. I’m assuming the entire cortex series shares the exact same mold and thus fit? Not sure I’m aggressive enough to appreciate the one-forty model, even though im tempted just because of the tech toes aloneQuote:
Originally Posted by tompietrowski
You can easily make a boot softer…