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100% true. I've been skiing BOA boot for couple of months and honestly, should have gone with the regular buckles. It MIGHT be interesting to see how BOA works for the upper buckles, I assume it really gives you better adjustment opportunities, however, for the lower part, I'm now absolutely sure BOA is a miss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip Dooley
I could barely get my hoof into a single boa boot in a shop. This was a higher volume boot than I’d normally ski. It did wrap the foot well when tightened but definitely not worth a boot you can’t fully open up. Some of us do need to be able to fully open the shell of the boot to get our rigid high insteps in. Hard pass on double boa. Being able to have different levels of tension in the cuff buckles is also a plus to me, but others could disagree.
Boa is great until it snaps and you can't fix it.
Boa on the lower is mainly a comfort thing. So if you already had a good fit then I could see it may not feel like a big upgrade. However many many people suffer with badly fitting boots so this is why boa on the lower has been very well received so far by many people.Quote:
Originally Posted by HukuTa_KydecHuk
Boa on the cuff is different however as it really improves performance compared to buckles. I really think the cuff closure system will be what sells boa for people who are looking for the best performance from a boot rather than just getting some more comfort from the boot.
If you are struggling to get into the boot you can switch out the stock cable for a longer one. This allows the shell to open wider. We recommend people with limited mobility or a very high instep change to a cable 5cm longer to help open the boot more.Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierD
The shell is model off a consumer level race boot last. We benchmarked many boots and found we really liked the heel and ankle area of the atomic redster cs and forefoot and toe box of the of the Dalbello drs 97mm. This was what we based our last on. It’s a true lv shell with a very thick wall so it will be easy to get in and grind if modifications are needed. The liner was developed to give a little more comfort than many of the race inspired boots we were benchmarking. We wanted this to be race boot performance but in a package more like everyday lv boots. Hopefully people will find they can wear cortex without much work and still get the very highest performance levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob_dbu
Having a hard time understanding this. Would love to know more. I see boa pulling even tension across two anchor points - which I guess is what you are referring to? Personally run third buckle much more firm and top buckle a bit less tensioned to give the flex and feel I’m after. That seems unachievable with boa. How does this improvement you speak of manifest?Quote:
Originally Posted by tompietrowski
This is an interesting way to think about boot fit, will start it’s own thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob_dbu
That is what basically every tester said going into boa cuff testing. There was pretty much a universal feeling that a single cable system would not offer great performance or fit because of exactly what you just said. But during testing (at least for us) each one of our testers found they got a better and more consistent cuff wrap which resulted in better power transfer compared to buckles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Olson
The boa cuff uses a dual pull single cable design meaning the cable is constantly self actuating through the guides. In practice this means the wrap can stay incredible constant through the movement of the cuff when the boot is flexed.
Anyone expecting to want more lower tension found this not to be an issue and as I said all were happy with the fit and we have had no testers who thought the boa cuff did not need perform better than our buckle cuffs we used to test against.
The pronated vs supinated comment was interesting as that is not how boots are made. I wondered if perhaps that was referring to built in sole canting which some race boots do employ?Quote:
Originally Posted by turnfarmer
Wrapping my head around it. Sorry to think out loud. So standing neutral, the cable is pulling tension evenly — but since the cable slides in the anchor points, the more you flex your boot, the upper opens vs the lower pulling tighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by tompietrowski
Meaning, it naturally can achieve the buckling mentioned above without need to be preset super tight around the ankle? I think I understand. Will be interested to try a set at some point. Thx for the response.
You got it! What it does can not be achieved with buckles as they offer a static tension.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Olson
Metal edges —> Fiberglass reinforced skis —> Releasable bindings —> Shaped skis —> Rocker —> Rossignol Soul Seven —> Double BOA.
And to think, we had erroneously believed that the pinnacle of ski equipment design had previously been achieved. It’s a whole new world coming next season.
Every BOA snowboard boot that I have ever owned has broken, usually within a few days of purchase. Putting them on ski boots seems like a bad idea unless they are far stronger than the ones on snowboard boots. I'd give em a few years to work out the kinks.
Boa smoa, I wanna hear about this new vwerks ski!
Quote:
Originally Posted by byates1
the systems are night and day different. Boa for alpine is many levels better than what’s on snowboard boots and other various boa uses. It’s far more substantial. You’re not just breaking a cable. In fact in order cut a cable you’d need to use wire cutters. The braided line is very substantial. Boa has been working for many years to get the “kinks” out of the design and the final product is a win forsure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Name Redacted
there really is nothing to “break” as there are so few parts. The most likely thing to happen would be the knob pops off which it is designed to do in a substantial impact. If that happens it just pops right back on. You’re not going to break the mount point. Period. The knob would just dangle on the cable. So you wouldn’t lose it. And it literally just clicks right back on. I’ve messed around trying to purposely pop it off and it’s just not possible without an extreme amount of force. I’m talking jamming a screw diver under it and really putting force on the screw driver to get it to pop off. When I finally did get it to release it easily just clicks right back into place.
I’ve skied them a fair bit now and I’ve had some impacts directly into the boa system while skiing trees. My knobs show the marks to prove it but they’ve still never come loose. No cable issues period.
as far as fixing in the unlikely chance you break it, it’s easier than buckles. First off the boa kits are free. It comprises of a new cable, new knob and new cable retainers. It would take 10 Mins at most to replace in the field. No need to find a “matching” buckle to your boot. No need to worry about rivets. Just a few to remove and replace. Getting the kits was very simple. Getting them was very easy, filled out a couple questions on boas site as to my boot model and cable length and had the kits in my hands in less than a week. All free of charge. Here are my boa kits. Thankfully I’ve had no use for them at this point.
Attachment 508676
Attachment 508677
anything that breaks 10 yrs from now ?Quote:
Originally Posted by tompietrowski
I can usually fix whatever breaks so its probably not about the fix, its about sourcing the parts, of course I realize I should probably buy boots more often than every 10-15 yrs
A broken buckle can probably be repalced with some random part but a broken cable makes the boot useless
so how long are there going to be parts would be the right question ?
if you are the Tom that was at Intuition you did a great job molding my pweraps but i digress
I’m not that Tom but I do know who you are referring to and he does great work!Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
I understand your concern for sure but I also would not be too worried. All brands hold onto parts for what is considered the useable lifespan of the product. We also work closely with boa to ensure as many new parts are backwards compatible as possible so I don’t believe you will get to a stage where you have problems sourcing boa components.
[QUOTE=FloridaSnow;7176329] there really is nothing to “break” as there are so few parts.7[/ATTACH
I have a very nice life from fixing things that arent suposed to break at least this is what the engineers and software guys told us ... but they did break
[QUOTE=XXX-er;7176355]well as I pointed out. If anything does break it’s an easy fix. Parts are free. Easily obtainable. Cross compatibility with every boa boot. Only thing specific is your cable length. If you don’t have a boa kit on hand like I do (which you should since they’re free) then any shop that sells boa will have a kit on hand that will work. Period. Secondly it’s easier to break a buckle than boa but we don’t hear complaining that buckles are too weak.Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaSnow
[QUOTE=FloridaSnow;7176358]If i made all this money fixing things that don't break I can probably fix a boa which also doesnt breakQuote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
but the question was for how long will there be parts cuz a cable has to be a very specific length whereas one could probaly make a lot of buckles ( never broken one) work ?
apparently the answer is " for the useable life of the product " whatever that means
[QUOTE=XXX-er;7176366]again that’s the point. The parts are free. So anyone can fix their boa if it breaks. It’s a super easy process if it needs to be done. Tom has touched on this in previous posts about boa. Across testing more people were breaking buckles than breaking boa. The % of parts failure is higher with buckles. Of course anything can break. That’s not the question, but in practice and across years of usage now boa fails less than buckles. That’s not an opinion, those are facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaSnow
[QUOTE=XXX-er;7176366]You won’t need to worry about getting hold of parts is what it means. We have planned production of products through 2030 already and we consider useable life at least 10 years so through at least 2040 you will be able to get the current cables.Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaSnow
@xxxer
Boa is currently supporting plenty of 10+ year old products currently. Impossible to say long term, but good track record.
I’d 100% run from an alpine boot with a proprietary dial however
100% this! We have talked to buckle suppliers who are investing in making dial and cable closure systems to offset they lost revenue from reductions in buckle orders but they just can’t begin to offer the customer support and universal integration which boa offers. A cheaper option is appealing but I just don’t think it’s worth loosing the support on the backend from boa.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Olson
In over 300 brands and then your momQuote:
Originally Posted by teamdirt
i trust this ^^ guys word enough to buy 2 pair of his 120's and i still love ( not just like) them 14 yrs later ehQuote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Olson
back in my days at the mother corp we would suspend service at some point and so a kinder gentler way to tell a customer with an ancient piece of shit to fuck off is
" The product has gone Sunset "
I just want to thank Tom for bringing a LV boot to market with tech toe fittings and no walk mode. The recon team was almost there but narrowing the boot is going to make it so much better. It’s a super small segment of the skiing community that wants this type of boot. But for those of us that do it’s going to be a game changer.
It’s comments like this that keep me coming back to TGR.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleBogey
Also interesting to note that teamdirt’s mother was boa’s last choice
What’s the flex on that LV K2? Color me interested; I went to Hawx Pro 2 years ago, it’s been a great boot but still feel like it’s not the perfect boot for me. The progressive flex is nice, but pretty sure I’ve had it bellow on me 2x this season already [emoji20]. Guessing the warmer temps are causing that to happen, as I didn’t notice it at all last year.
My foot issue is pretty sizable medial malleoli that needs a descent size punch to make palatable. Otherwise pretty dang average foot, I’m in a 26.5 shell and wear a 10.5 street shoe.
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100% this.Quote:
Originally Posted by altacoup
At some point we all need to call a truce on stiff boots, stiff skis, aggressive leg workouts, and skiing fast. We’re all gonna end up in 170 flex plugs and I’d really like to go back to skiing a nice soft, sloppy AT boot.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiLyft
We will offer a 140 unisex boot which has the tech tie (more flex’s will follow in this model) and then in the men’s we will have 130,120 and 110 and for women 125, 105 and 95.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiLyft
Thank you! I am stoked about how these boots turned out. Those race inspired boots ski great but they really are not great to live with. We figured we could make something which skied just as well but was actually a boot you would want to wear every day and had some modern features. I think a lot of people will find this is the boot they have been looking for!Quote:
Originally Posted by altacoup
Haaaaaaa, dude so true!!Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKALVS
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Thanks for all the info Tom, big question for me though, what’s the forward lean and ramp?Quote:
Originally Posted by tompietrowski
Forward lean is 15 degrees and the ramp is 2.5 degreesQuote:
Originally Posted by mr_pretzel
So more fwd lean than the recon? Yippi!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by tompietrowski
^^^
I totally agree. I was able to live with the extra volume in the recon by adding a thicker liner. But it always takes me a few turns to adjust to the more upright stance compared to my Dobermans. Do any of the other flexes come with tech fittings? My lady is also interested in these but doesn’t like a [emoji637][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]]/[emoji637][emoji640][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]] flex.
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Exactly, BOA on ski boots feels like a gimmick a la rear entry boots, not the other way around.Quote:
Originally Posted by tompietrowski;[emoji[emoji6[emoji640
Sent from my iPhone using [emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji640][emoji638][emoji638][emoji638]]TGR Forums